Climate Change is here and man made

[blueinsa]

So lets sum this thread up:
If you think climate change is made up by Governments to increase taxes you are a stupid idiot who is trolling and have the brains of a potted plant, you know nothing, read nothing and amount to nothing.
If you think climate change will destroy the world you are a Mod and therefore can abuse people at will without the risk of getting banned.

Have I summed it up prety well ?

I'm an imbecile and not very well read or educated but yes.....I think you have summed it up quite well.

 

[Lucky13]

So lets sum this thread up:
If you think climate change is made up by Governments to increase taxes you are a stupid idiot who is trolling and have the brains of a potted plant, you know nothing, read nothing and amount to nothing.
If you think climate change will destroy the world you are a Mod and therefore can abuse people at will without the risk of getting banned.

Have I summed it up prety well ?

Too well, ban him.

 

[BulgarianPride]

Fact is climate change is occurring, governments pretend to care by taxing the shit out of people while doing very little to change the root cause.

 

[Damocles]

So lets sum this thread up:
If you think climate change is made up by Governments to increase taxes you are a stupid idiot who is trolling and have the brains of a potted plant, you know nothing, read nothing and amount to nothing.
If you think climate change will destroy the world you are a Mod and therefore can abuse people at will without the risk of getting banned.

Have I summed it up prety well ?

I don't think climate change will destroy the world. If you're going to try and be a twat, try not to put words in my mouth

Nothing outside of a planet sized rock or the Sun expanding/exploding will destroy the Earth.

However, if you have never read a climate paper in your entire life but have suddenly decided that you're an expert enough to comment on a highly complex scientific phenomena and the truthfulness of it, then yes, you're a complete fucking idiot.

Do you know why I don't get involved with threads on economic theory? Because I know fuck all about it. I've kind of worked out that SWPs Back looks like he knows some stuff about it so have asked him for some reading recommendations, however, reading two books recommended by a person with a particular opinion doesn't make me educated enough to turn around and say ALL THIS IS BOLLOCKS.

I cannot fathom the arrogance it takes for people to believe their opinion is more correct than experts who dedicate their lifes to understanding a particular part without doing a single minute of research into the topic. This idea that I should respect your unconsidered, idiiotic and downright stupid opinion is nonsense.

 

[Skashion]

Fact is climate change is occurring, governments pretend to care by taxing the shit out of people while doing very little to change the root cause.

We know nowhere near enough yet.

 

[Damocles]

Fact is climate change is occurring, governments pretend to care by taxing the shit out of people while doing very little to change the root cause.

We know nowhere near enough yet.

This was true 10 years ago. Not now.

 

[pauldominic]

So lets sum this thread up:
If you think climate change is made up by Governments to increase taxes you are a stupid idiot who is trolling and have the brains of a potted plant, you know nothing, read nothing and amount to nothing.
If you think climate change will destroy the world you are a Mod and therefore can abuse people at will without the risk of getting banned.

Have I summed it up prety well ?

A bit too black and white.

Life is about shades of grey.

 

[Damocles]

So lets sum this thread up:
If you think climate change is made up by Governments to increase taxes you are a stupid idiot who is trolling and have the brains of a potted plant, you know nothing, read nothing and amount to nothing.
If you think climate change will destroy the world you are a Mod and therefore can abuse people at will without the risk of getting banned.

Have I summed it up prety well ?

I don't think climate change will destroy the world. If you're going to try and be a twat, try not to put words in my mouth

Nothing outside of a planet sized rock or the Sun expanding/exploding will destroy the Earth.

However, if you have never read a climate paper in your entire life but have suddenly decided that you're an expert enough to comment on a highly complex scientific phenomena and the truthfulness of it, then yes, you're a complete fucking idiot.

Do you know why I don't get involved with threads on economic theory? Because I know fuck all about it. I've kind of worked out that SWPs Back looks like he knows some stuff about it so have asked him for some reading recommendations, however, reading two books recommended by a person with a particular opinion doesn't make me educated enough to turn around and say ALL THIS IS BOLLOCKS.

I cannot fathom the arrogance it takes for people to believe their opinion is more correct than experts who dedicate their lifes to understanding a particular part without doing a single minute of research into the topic. This idea that I should respect your unconsidered, idiiotic and downright stupid opinion is nonsense.

your science is flawed, just because your eloquent doesn't make you right.

i will equal every scientist you come armed with, with a scientist who disagrees with climate change

you are guilty of intellectual bullying at its worst , you should be ashamed

Go and read this, not skim it, actually read it then come back:

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific ... ate_change</a>

 

[stonerblue]

The current slight increase in global temperatures is well within the earth's customary temperature range. Temperatures today are lower than they were in the mediæval warm period. Sea level has been rising slowly since the end of the last ice age, but the rate of rise shows no sign of increasing.

The Antarctic contains around 90% of the world's ice, and the Antarctic ice mass is increasing, while temperatures are actually trending down slightly over most of the Antarctic.

Only about 3% of global CO2 emissions are man-made, and the relation between atmospheric CO2 concentrations and climate is still subject to debate. Catastrophic predictions of global warming are based on notoriously unreliable computer projections, with both governments and media always seizing on the most alarmist possibilities.

Yet only thirty years ago, serious scientific papers, and the media, were panicking over the threat of global cooling, and the imminent on-set of the next Ice Age! We seem to have a deep psychological need for scare stories.

While the establishment pontificates about the Kyoto protocol, widely accepted estimates of the likely impact of Kyoto (if fully implemented -- of course it won't be) is a reduction in mean global temperatures of about 0.02°C by 2050, and no more than 0.2°C by 2100. We are being asked to decimate energy use, roll back the industrial revolution, and make heroic economic sacrifices, in order to achieve changes in long-term climate projections almost too small to measure.

So why are we constantly bombarded with hysterical climate change propaganda? Why is climate change "the greatest threat facing man-kind" (if you ignore terrorism, nuclear war, the millennium bug, bird flu etc etc)?

The motivation of the green lobby is pretty clear. These people hate capitalism with a passion. In the sixties they'd have been communists. Now their weapon of choice against capitalism, free markets, prosperity and progress is a two-pronged attack on globalisation and climate change. Both prongs are wholly wrong-headed.

Governments jump on the band-wagon not only to respond to the ill-founded fears of voters, but because crusading on climate change offers opportunities both for new taxes, and for the global governance initiatives beloved by political leaders (as well as a distraction from more immediate problems). We hear apologists for the EU talking more and more about its supposed environmental role (despite the massive failure of its Kyoto commitments and its Emissions Trading System).

The enthusiasm of some major corporations takes more explaining. Some are making the most of a bad job, and aligning themselves to the Zeitgeist. But many are "rent seekers". They see commercial opportunities in the incentives offered by government -- for example in the gross market distortions created to promote the economic lunacy of wind farms.

The climate hysteria is now so all-pervading that it is difficult for the still, small voice of common sense to get a hearing. All the more reason to welcome a brilliantly readable new book "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming", by my good friend Chris Horner of the Competitive Enterprise Institute. Tightly argued, full of counter-intuitive information, and peppered with the failed forecasts of green activists, this is essential reading for all those concerned with climate and the environment.

Amongst the quotes, I particularly liked "The threat of a new Ice Age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a major threat to mankind" (Nigel Calder, International Wildlife, 1975); and "Nutritional disaster seems likely to overtake humanity in the '70s (or at latest the '80s) .... (it) could lead to a billion people starving to death" (Ehrlich, The End of Affluence, 1974). Yet today in the West, obesity, not malnutrition, stalks the land.

Which Neo-Con, god-bothering, right wing, capitalist backed rag have you lifted this from?

 

[Skashion]

This was true 10 years ago. Not now.

No, it's still true. When estimates of negative anthropogenic forcings have margins of error as big as they are, we don't know enough. I don't believe you're rational on this topic at all. When I last saw you posting on this topic, it was a foaming at the mouth rant about 200ft sea level rises (which would take many thousands of years) and an extinction level event. I was surprised at how little faith you placed in technological advancements and indeed the advancement of the human civilisation across a span of several thousand years. In that timespan, we could, I'd say probably will, be colonising other planets.

 

[Damocles]

Are you admitting to trolling corky?

-- Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:30 pm --

This was true 10 years ago. Not now.

No, it's still true. When estimates of negative anthropogenic forcings have margins of error as big as they are, we don't know enough. I don't believe you're rational on this topic at all. When I last saw you posting on this topic, it was a foaming at the mouth rant about 200ft sea level rises (which would take many thousands of years) and an extinction level event. I was surprised at how little faith you placed in technological advancements and indeed the advancement of the human civilisation across a span of several thousand years. In that timespan, we could, I'd say probably will, be colonising other planets.

We know more than enough, you're out of date, go and do some research.

EDIT: And a 200ft seas level rise is a prediction of a model based upon Greenland and parts of the Arctic melting. I have no idea where you've goten thousands of years from. I'm not sure you understand the logarithmic effect of warming climate

 

[2sheikhs]

When the scientists and the green party kept spouting off about the hole in the ozone layer, did they ever take into account that it could actually repair itself? Because it is doing.

 

[Damocles]

So I guess that link is another piece of information that you've failed to read?

Colour me surprised. And I thought you were on the forefront of scientific consensus here.

EDIT: I guess it will be for me to point out the ridiculousness of corkys "But some scientists oppose it !!1!!" position?

 

[Skashion]

We know more than enough, you're out of date, go and do some research.

EDIT: And a 200ft seas level rise is a prediction of a model based upon Greenland and parts of the Arctic melting. I have no idea where you've goten thousands of years from. I'm not sure you understand the logarithmic effect of warming climate

Such a lazy response from you. I'll just quote an old post:

The data simply isn't credible yet. The only answer is balanced scientific study.

How can decades of data independently collated in multiple disciplines, that all point to the same conclusions not be credible?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-chapter2.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-repor ... apter2.pdf</a>
p. 203

The Level of Scientific Understanding for almost all forcings, according to the IPCC, are low to very low or very low. Out of sixteen factors, five are very low, six are low to very low, two medium to low, two medium and only one high. By marvellous coincidence, the higher LoSUs happen to be positive forcings i.e. ones where the temperature will go up, and low vice versa. How can data with margins of error as big as they are for the cloud albedo effect and lack of understanding so pronounced be considered conclusive? Fuck knows.

If the entire East Antarctic ice sheets melted, yes, we'd have 200ft of sea level rises. Calculate how long that would take. Actually, I'll save you some bother. They're not losing mass at the moment so it would take infinite years. Even if you take the most crazy extreme estimates, it would take several thousand years for this to happen.

I don't give a fuck if you're not sure, because I am sure.

 

[Blue Mist]

So lets sum this thread up:
If you think climate change is made up by Governments to increase taxes you are a stupid idiot who is trolling and have the brains of a potted plant, you know nothing, read nothing and amount to nothing.
If you think climate change will destroy the world you are a Mod and therefore can abuse people at will without the risk of getting banned.

Have I summed it up prety well ?

I don't think climate change will destroy the world. If you're going to try and be a twat, try not to put words in my mouth

Nothing outside of a planet sized rock or the Sun expanding/exploding will destroy the Earth.

However, if you have never read a climate paper in your entire life but have suddenly decided that you're an expert enough to comment on a highly complex scientific phenomena and the truthfulness of it, then yes, you're a complete fucking idiot.

Do you know why I don't get involved with threads on economic theory? Because I know fuck all about it. I've kind of worked out that SWPs Back looks like he knows some stuff about it so have asked him for some reading recommendations, however, reading two books recommended by a person with a particular opinion doesn't make me educated enough to turn around and say ALL THIS IS BOLLOCKS.

I cannot fathom the arrogance it takes for people to believe their opinion is more correct than experts who dedicate their lifes to understanding a particular part without doing a single minute of research into the topic. This idea that I should respect your unconsidered, idiiotic and downright stupid opinion is nonsense.

Damocles I wasn't and I quote 'trying to be a twat'. I was trying to make light of a thread that you have got very heated about. I was posting in a hopefully funny way but I would suggest that you revisit some of your replies, change your name to that of some other posters on here and read it again. When you have done that ask your self if as a Mod you would have warned someone or even banned someone for using some of the phrases you have use. You are sounding like a Christian who was told of Darwins Theory of Evolution. It contradicts everything you believe and therefore it is wrong. It seems anybody who has a different view from yourself is 'Trolling' is an 'imbecile' 'have the knowledge of a small potted plant', 'simply not understanding' or 'trying to be a twat.'
I have not commented on what I believe, as I say I was trying to make light of the anger that was being spewed forth but I will say that every person has a right to say what they believe, it is after all a democratic forum. Just becasue someone is not as educated as you, or just becasue they hold a different view from you does not make them stupid.

Hell I love The Cellar.

 

[blueish swede]

Corky, I think you are missing the point somewhat.

Global warming is happening at a faster rate than has ever been previously observed (looking at geological record etc). This increase in the warming rate is due to human activity. CO2 is a green house gas, it absorbs the suns energy reflected from the earths surface and holds it in the atmosphere causing an increase in temperature.

We are in the middle of an extinction event right now. It may not be obvious to us in our daily lives but it is predicted that by the end of this century half of all species will have become extinct. The direct effect on people isn't important, or the effect on pandas, elephants, tigers or polar bears. It is the effect on trees and insects that is the biggest threat. If they cannot adapt fast enough as the climate changes then we are all totally screwed.

 

[2sheikhs]

I see nobody bothered addressing my fucking ozone layer question. It really must be an "uncomfortable truth". :)

 

[BulgarianPride]

Corky, I think you are missing the point somewhat.

Global warming is happening at a faster rate than has ever been previously observed (looking at geological record etc). This increase in the warming rate is due to human activity. CO2 is a green house gas, it absorbs the suns energy reflected from the earths surface and holds it in the atmosphere causing an increase in temperature.

We are in the middle of an extinction event right now. It may not be obvious to us in our daily lives but it is predicted that by the end of this century half of all species will have become extinct. The direct effect on people isn't important, or the effect on pandas, elephants, tigers or polar bears. It is the effect on trees and insects that is the biggest threat. If they cannot adapt fast enough as the climate changes then we are all totally screwed.

The whole existence is an extinction event. Many ancient species have evolved due to previous climate change, our drive out of Africa was caused by climate change. Climate change has occurred thousands of times in the past, why is this time different? Do we fully understand what we as humans are doing in the long term? I don't think so.

 

[pauldominic]

So lets sum this thread up:
If you think climate change is made up by Governments to increase taxes you are a stupid idiot who is trolling and have the brains of a potted plant, you know nothing, read nothing and amount to nothing.
If you think climate change will destroy the world you are a Mod and therefore can abuse people at will without the risk of getting banned.

Have I summed it up prety well ?

I don't think climate change will destroy the world. If you're going to try and be a twat, try not to put words in my mouth

Nothing outside of a planet sized rock or the Sun expanding/exploding will destroy the Earth.

However, if you have never read a climate paper in your entire life but have suddenly decided that you're an expert enough to comment on a highly complex scientific phenomena and the truthfulness of it, then yes, you're a complete fucking idiot.

Do you know why I don't get involved with threads on economic theory? Because I know fuck all about it. I've kind of worked out that SWPs Back looks like he knows some stuff about it so have asked him for some reading recommendations, however, reading two books recommended by a person with a particular opinion doesn't make me educated enough to turn around and say ALL THIS IS BOLLOCKS.

I cannot fathom the arrogance it takes for people to believe their opinion is more correct than experts who dedicate their lifes to understanding a particular part without doing a single minute of research into the topic. This idea that I should respect your unconsidered, idiiotic and downright stupid opinion is nonsense.

There's some wisdom there Damocles.

However it's still very possible to check your facts and express an opinion.

The problem comes with your final paragraph, because some opinions are sincerely expressed and deserve correction because you can't separate the opinion from the person who expressed it.

 

[2sheikhs]

Corky, I think you are missing the point somewhat.

Global warming is happening at a faster rate than has ever been previously observed (looking at geological record etc). This increase in the warming rate is due to human activity. CO2 is a green house gas, it absorbs the suns energy reflected from the earths surface and holds it in the atmosphere causing an increase in temperature.

We are in the middle of an extinction event right now. It may not be obvious to us in our daily lives but it is predicted that by the end of this century half of all species will have become extinct. The direct effect on people isn't important, or the effect on pandas, elephants, tigers or polar bears. It is the effect on trees and insects that is the biggest threat. If they cannot adapt fast enough as the climate changes then we are all totally screwed.

man being a **** with a gun is the reason Panda's elephants and tigers are diminished, not because its got a bit toastie !!

And the snow leopard. Let's not forget the snow leopard for fucks sake. If you buy a cuddly toy of one apparently they'll all start shagging again.