Climate Change is here and man made

[Damocles]

Sea ice does not contribute to sea level rises. The East Antarctic ice sheet is the issue because that's on land, and hence does contribute to sea level rises when it melts. The East Antarctic ice sheet, which contains 60+% of the world's fresh water, is gaining mass.

Wat. Are you suggesting the Archimedes Princile works for freshwater in saltwater?

 

[stonerblue]

You sure about sea ice contributing more than land ice Damocles?

Go get a glass, fill it nearly to the top and put some ice cubes in.

Report Ba k what happens to the level when it melts.

It#ll be the same as when the ice was put in ?

 

[woodieMCFC]

I'm Enjoying this discussion...

 

[smudgedj]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/7645112/Melting-sea-ice-would-cause-sea-levels-to-rise-by-hairs-breadth.html

If all the floating ice in the world melted it would cause sea levels to rise by just 4cm. In comparison if all the ice on land melted it would cause a rise of 70m.

4cm and 70m and I moved all the way to Bolivia I could have just moved into a penthouse.

 

[Damocles]

You sure about sea ice contributing more than land ice Damocles?

Go get a glass, fill it nearly to the top and put some ice cubes in.

Report Ba k what happens to the level when it melts.

It#ll be the same as when the ice was put in ?

It won't. These guys are remembering the Archimedes Principle which says that an object immersed in a fluid is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid it displaces.

Unfortunately, the density of freshwater and saltwater are not the same. Freshwater has a greater volume than the equivalent saltwater thus raises the water more than it was displaced as it has more melt water.

 

[SWP's back]

You sure about sea ice contributing more than land ice Damocles?

Go get a glass, fill it nearly to the top and put some ice cubes in.

Report Ba k what happens to the level when it melts.

It#ll be the same as when the ice was put in ?

For all intents and purposes yeah mate.

 

[Skashion]

Wat. Are you suggesting the Archimedes Princile works for freshwater in saltwater?

Hilarious that you think I'm being the idiot here. You're claiming sea ice is the bigger problem that people are more arsed about when you're fannying about with the relative weights of ice and sea water, which amounts to less than 2% of sea level rise.

*edit, far less than 2% if the link SWP's Back used is correct.

 

[Damocles]

Wat. Are you suggesting the Archimedes Princile works for freshwater in saltwater?

Hilarious that you think I'm being the idiot here. You're claiming sea ice is the bigger problem that people are more arsed about when you're fannying about with the relative weights of ice and sea water, which amounts to less than 2% of sea level rise.

No I'm not at all. I'm suggesting that the amount of sea ice that is being created is the problem. That's why I said:

"Sea ice is the thing that people are arsed about as like an ice cube in a glass it contributes more to sea level changes"

How's about you just assume from now on that I actually know what I'm talking about so we can stop any further miscommunications and start looking at science?

EDIT: For the record, as I've mentioned, EAST Antarctic land ice mass increased recently whilst the overall Antartic ice mass went down. You have yet to respond to this.

 

[Skashion]

No I'm not at all. I'm suggesting that the amount of sea ice that is being created is the problem. That's why I said:

"Sea ice is the thing that people are arsed about as like an ice cube in a glass it contributes more to sea level changes"

How's about you just assume from now on that I actually know what I'm talking about so we can stop any further miscommunications and start looking at science?

I was just going to quote that right back at you. Sea ice is a tiny insignificant problem. It doesn't contribute more to sea level change. It contributes far far far far less. 4cm vs 70m of sea level rise using the link SWP's Back provided.

No, actually, I'm not going to assume that at all. I've taken a huge swerve away from that assumption and am now wondering whether you have a fucking clue.

 

[blueish swede]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06R-qTXfVYE[/youtube]

 

[Damocles]

No I'm not at all. I'm suggesting that the amount of sea ice that is being created is the problem. That's why I said:

"Sea ice is the thing that people are arsed about as like an ice cube in a glass it contributes more to sea level changes"

How's about you just assume from now on that I actually know what I'm talking about so we can stop any further miscommunications and start looking at science?

I was just going to quote that right back at you. Sea ice is a tiny insignificant problem. It doesn't contribute more to sea level change. It contributes far far far far less. 4cm vs 70m of sea level rise using the link SWP's Back provided.

No, actually, I'm not going to assume that at all. I've taken a huge swerve away from that assumption and am now wondering whether you have a fucking clue.

Funny, I've had the same thought. Especially with you mixing up one of the simplest principles involved with ice melting which you've failed to acknowledge. And you completely missing the idea of the overall land ice mass reducing which you've failed to acknowledge. And your idea that having more sea ice is a "tiny insignificant problem" seemingly without understanding what exactly the effects of more sea ice has on the area nor exactly where this sea ice comes from in the first place. I think it's probably time for you to give up on this one if you're not going to acknowledge your own mistakes.

 

[BulgarianPride]

No I'm not at all. I'm suggesting that the amount of sea ice that is being created is the problem. That's why I said:

"Sea ice is the thing that people are arsed about as like an ice cube in a glass it contributes more to sea level changes"

How's about you just assume from now on that I actually know what I'm talking about so we can stop any further miscommunications and start looking at science?

I was just going to quote that right back at you. Sea ice is a tiny insignificant problem. It doesn't contribute more to sea level change. It contributes far far far far less. 4cm vs 70m of sea level rise using the link SWP's Back provided.

No, actually, I'm not going to assume that at all. I've taken a huge swerve away from that assumption and am now wondering whether you have a fucking clue.

What i am understanding is that he is not talking about the sea ice melting, he is talking about the introduction of more sea ice. That is ice of land collapses into the sea.

Could be wrong.

 

[Skashion]

Funny, I've had the same thought. Especially with you mixing up one of the simplest principles involved with ice melting which you've failed to acknowledge. And you completely missing the idea of the overall land ice mass reducing which you've failed to acknowledge. And your idea that having more sea ice is a "tiny insignificant problem" seemingly without understanding what exactly the effects of more sea ice has on the area nor exactly where this sea ice comes from in the first place. I think it's probably time for you to give up on this one if you're not going to acknowledge your own mistakes.

No, it is you who've completely mixed up the principles. Sea ice barely contributes to sea level changes. You can demonstrate this by melting ice cubes in a glass. The effect of salt, is very minimal. The problem of sea level rises comes from water in the form of ice, which was previously land-based, being dumped into the oceans. This is why the Eastern Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets are supremely relevant because this is where the sea level rises will come from. The Eastern Antarctic is the land-based bit i.e. the important bit when it comes to sea level rises, and, the land-based bit is gaining mass. 60m of sea level change cannot happen without this big block of land-based ice melting. It is absolutely impossible. This whole thing would have to melt in pretty much its entirety. That only is not currently happening, but the opposite is happening, and even if things turned, and it started melting at a far faster rate than Greenland, it would still take several thousand years because there's so much of it.

 

[Damocles]

No I'm not at all. I'm suggesting that the amount of sea ice that is being created is the problem. That's why I said:

"Sea ice is the thing that people are arsed about as like an ice cube in a glass it contributes more to sea level changes"

How's about you just assume from now on that I actually know what I'm talking about so we can stop any further miscommunications and start looking at science?

I was just going to quote that right back at you. Sea ice is a tiny insignificant problem. It doesn't contribute more to sea level change. It contributes far far far far less. 4cm vs 70m of sea level rise using the link SWP's Back provided.

No, actually, I'm not going to assume that at all. I've taken a huge swerve away from that assumption and am now wondering whether you have a fucking clue.

What i am understanding is that he is not talking about the sea ice melting, he is talking about the introduction of more sea ice. That is ice of land collapses into the sea.

Could be wrong.

Bit of both actually. I was trying to make the point that more sea ice contributes a greater spread of polynyas around which changes numerous markers on how the climate reacts and how ice forms around the area

 

[blueinsa]

No disrespect to either Damocles or Skashion here but this page alone is evidence enough as to why, fellow "imbeciles" like myself don't believe half the crap so called educated people and scientists come out with as they cant even agree with each other.

Earth has a history of hot and cold climatic periods and it will continue to do so regardless and like all other species that have ever lived or are yet to live, we will all end up going the same way.

Take the above to the bank!

 

[Skashion]

What i am understanding is that he is not talking about the sea ice melting, he is talking about the introduction of more sea ice. That is ice of land collapses into the sea.

Could be wrong.

He's not, he messed up by mentioning the ice cubes in the glass. When you melt ice cubes in floating water, the level stays the same.

 

[Damocles]

What i am understanding is that he is not talking about the sea ice melting, he is talking about the introduction of more sea ice. That is ice of land collapses into the sea.

Could be wrong.

He's not, he messed up by mentioning the ice cubes in the glass. When you melt ice cubes in floating water, the level stays the same.

No it doesn't!

<a class="postlink" href="http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050801_floatingice.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050801_floatingice.html</a>

[bigimg]http://nsidc.org/news/images/float_1.jpg[/bigimg]
Figure 1: A freshwater ice cube floats in a beaker of concentrated saltwater. Note that the ice cube floats much higher in the saltwater than it would in a glass of freshwater because saltwater has a greater density.


[bigimg]http://nsidc.org/news/images/float_2.jpg[/bigimg]
Figure 2: When the freshwater ice melts, it raises the water level. Freshwater is not as dense as saltwater; so the floating ice cube displaced less volume than it contributed once it melted.

 

[Skashion]

No it doesn't!

<a class="postlink" href="http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050801_floatingice.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050801_floatingice.html</a>

[bigimg]http://nsidc.org/news/images/float_1.jpg[/bigimg]
Figure 1: A freshwater ice cube floats in a beaker of concentrated saltwater. Note that the ice cube floats much higher in the saltwater than it would in a glass of freshwater because saltwater has a greater density.


[bigimg]http://nsidc.org/news/images/float_2.jpg[/bigimg]
Figure 2: When the freshwater ice melts, it raises the water level. Freshwater is not as dense as saltwater; so the floating ice cube displaced less volume than it contributed once it melted.

We already know this. It is however, an insignificant problem. This effect is not causing sea level rise. Fresh water, from land ice sheets, is the big problem. The one people are arsed about.

 

[Damocles]

But you just said:

When you melt ice cubes in floating water, the level stays the same.

How is that the same?!

 

[BulgarianPride]

What i am understanding is that he is not talking about the sea ice melting, he is talking about the introduction of more sea ice. That is ice of land collapses into the sea.

Could be wrong.

He's not, he messed up by mentioning the ice cubes in the glass. When you melt ice cubes in floating water, the level stays the same.

No it doesn't!

<a class="postlink" href="http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050801_floatingice.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050801_floatingice.html</a>

[bigimg]http://nsidc.org/news/images/float_1.jpg[/bigimg]
Figure 1: A freshwater ice cube floats in a beaker of concentrated saltwater. Note that the ice cube floats much higher in the saltwater than it would in a glass of freshwater because saltwater has a greater density.


[bigimg]http://nsidc.org/news/images/float_2.jpg[/bigimg]
Figure 2: When the freshwater ice melts, it raises the water level. Freshwater is not as dense as saltwater; so the floating ice cube displaced less volume than it contributed once it melted.

In a paper titled "The Melting of Floating Ice will Raise the Ocean Level" submitted to Geophysical Journal International, Noerdlinger demonstrates that melt water from sea ice and floating ice shelves could add 2.6% more water to the ocean than the water displaced by the ice, or the equivalent of approximately 4 centimeters (1.57 inches) of sea-level rise.

Isn't this exactly what SWP said?