Colin Pitchfork

Pitchfork through the ****'s stomach on the day of release please. No justice for the victims' families, scumbags in that legal profession to blame once again.
 
VOOMER said:
You wanted a response, so did I. Prison is where he needs to be and deserves to be. He had the wherewithal to get someone to cover for him and he is clearly a sociopath.
Click to expand...

Reality is, no one life without telling a lie, or concealing things. There's more to being a sociopath than that.
 
VOOMER said:
Don't' be to hard on yourself



Your not wrong.
Click to expand...
That's sorta what I'm saying. People who want life to be hard on others are usually the ones wailing at themselves inside. It messes up the debate about criminal justice, because they're really a bit messed up from childhood.

Like, you can see Brevik had a point. He was a grotesque extreme narcissist, hiding serious stuff. Really out there in terms of human psychopathology.

Other people get priviledge and have carefully guided lives from an early age. The parents make social connections and networks for them. It's been that way forever. But essentially, it's the same thing as the middle class thing of moving to a good area putting your kid in a good school. The next step up is private school. I've seen both, and I've lived in the most deprived areas. It's all horrible in a way, but it's just true - people make social connections for their children because they need them. Some people are more ambitious about it - even cynical.

Why it drives some people to think that certain groups are an insidious threat to their nation is an interesting question. Envy and hatred don't really answer any questions, they just make people wonder whats going on that a person would defend someone like Brevik on that basis. Brevik wanted to be a hero. It didn't matter to him if only a hundred people believed he had a cause. That's what extreme narcissism does to a person. It makes them find the narrative that gives them a status they can cling to, because being anything else is just never going to work for them. And this is usually because mummy and daddy had no understanding of them as a child with warmth and love and fear in them. They treated them with disdain and coldness. Other people are treated by parents who raise their voice or their hands and never give an inch. That does things to them too. As does being thrown into a dangerous world and told to get on with it too soon, without enough love. Maybe their parents do give them all their love and courage. But the world around them is violent and harsh and unfair, and they can see the rest of the world doesn't do anything about it, it will happily shit on them.

All that stuff is buzzing around in people. And then there's parental attitudes to sex, and the child expressing it's individuality. It changes the way they see what crime and punishment is for.

And we all do this thing where, there's a type of act that we just don't forgive. The one thing we put away, or stopped ourselves from becoming, or the one thing we can say, we'd never do, we use that to excuse ourselves from all our other failings so we feel we're different than the bad people.

But it's routinely so much bullshit. It works in a social setting, it gets popular. And it's used by cynical people. Exploited. Like the Liverpool gangs who had a code of honour - no violence against women, or heroin. Guess how many of the top guys eventually got done for heroin. They just kept it out of sight, so they could maintain a public image of being 'the hero'.

Honestly, we all need to fucking grow up and stop thinking about some people as beyond evil, cheering more punishment, calling anything else soft, because we're doing is excusing others, and giving cynical people a way of using sentiment to distract from their bullshit.

Prisons are overflowing. Tory home ministers for 12 fucking years. We're no better off as a society. It's just headlines. A safer society feeds off itself, people are less aggressive, think more clearly. Call that soft if you want - I think it starts with more police. And the law is the law, it applies to everyone, and that's that. It's not there to kick around and demand it does what we want in any particular case.

Because the reality of that, saying we need to be 'hard' is a fucking joke. A waste of time, a big show, all done for ourselves, because we're just another clueless and quite likely damaged product of the school of hard knocks.
 
Summerbuzz said:
Reality is, no one life without telling a lie, or concealing things. There's more to being a sociopath than that.
Click to expand...

But look at the description of how he murdered each victim, I mean using a new born as cover.
 
kippaxoldboy said:
I always believe the system for being a member of parole boards is a joke. We allow people from all walks of life to be members of a jury, to convict people like Pitchfork..... yet when it comes to parole boards you have to have a criminology degree and have worked within the criminal justice system???
Given the chance I would have a jury type board of say 6 members of the public and one member of the family of the victim(s)
I know this would never happen though. Sadly, our justice system is often made up of, and backed up by do gooders and weaklings.
Click to expand...
We allow people from all walks of life to weigh up the evidence before them in reaching a verdict before asking someone more qualified in the nuance of law to pass a suitable sentence.

Then we compound that by leaving decisions about parole which may include some complex moral discussions as well as assessments of risk, psychology etc to so called experts instead of simply polling readers of the daily Mail. It’s civilised advanced society gone mad.

I wouldn’t release Pitchfork though
 
Summerbuzz said:
That's sorta what I'm saying. People who want life to be hard on others are usually the ones wailing at themselves inside. It messes up the debate about criminal justice, because they're really a bit messed up from childhood.

Like, you can see Brevik had a point. He was a grotesque extreme narcissist, hiding serious stuff. Really out there in terms of human psychopathology.

Other people get priviledge and have carefully guided lives from an early age. The parents make social connections and networks for them. It's been that way forever. But essentially, it's the same thing as the middle class thing of moving to a good area putting your kid in a good school. The next step up is private school. I've seen both, and I've lived in the most deprived areas. It's all horrible in a way, but it's just true - people make social connections for their children because they need them. Some people are more ambitious about it - even cynical.

Why it drives some people to think that certain groups are an insidious threat to their nation is an interesting question. Envy and hatred don't really answer any questions, they just make people wonder whats going on that a person would defend someone like Brevik on that basis. Brevik wanted to be a hero. It didn't matter to him if only a hundred people believed he had a cause. That's what extreme narcissism does to a person. It makes them find the narrative that gives them a status they can cling to, because being anything else is just never going to work for them. And this is usually because mummy and daddy had no understanding of them as a child with warmth and love and fear in them. They treated them with disdain and coldness. Other people are treated by parents who raise their voice or their hands and never give an inch. That does things to them too. As does being thrown into a dangerous world and told to get on with it too soon, without enough love. Maybe their parents do give them all their love and courage. But the world around them is violent and harsh and unfair, and they can see the rest of the world doesn't do anything about it, it will happily shit on them.

All that stuff is buzzing around in people. And then there's parental attitudes to sex, and the child expressing it's individuality. It changes the way they see what crime and punishment is for.

And we all do this thing where, there's a type of act that we just don't forgive. The one thing we put away, or stopped ourselves from becoming, or the one thing we can say, we'd never do, we use that to excuse ourselves from all our other failings so we feel we're different than the bad people.

But it's routinely so much bullshit. It works in a social setting, it gets popular. And it's used by cynical people. Exploited. Like the Liverpool gangs who had a code of honour - no violence against women, or heroin. Guess how many of the top guys eventually got done for heroin. They just kept it out of sight, so they could maintain a public image of being 'the hero'.

Honestly, we all need to fucking grow up and stop thinking about some people as beyond evil, cheering more punishment, calling anything else soft, because we're doing is excusing others, and giving cynical people a way of using sentiment to distract from their bullshit.

Prisons are overflowing. Tory home ministers for 12 fucking years. We're no better off as a society. It's just headlines. A safer society feeds off itself, people are less aggressive, think more clearly. Call that soft if you want - I think it starts with more police. And the law is the law, it applies to everyone, and that's that. It's not there to kick around and demand it does what we want in any particular case.

Because the reality of that, saying we need to be 'hard' is a fucking joke. A waste of time, a big show, all done for ourselves, because we're just another clueless and quite likely damaged product of the school of hard knocks.
Click to expand...

The prison population has doubled since its support services were privatised. If someone is a calculating and dangerous predator, then society needs protection. I'm not sure we need protecting from Gayle Newlands.

www.theguardian.com

Woman who pretended to be man to trick friend into sex jailed for eight years

Gayle Newland sentenced to eight years in prison for disguising her appearance and persuading woman to wear blindfold while they had sex
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
VOOMER said:
But look at the description of how he murdered each victim, I mean using a new born as cover.
Click to expand...
Yeah.. I dunno. People mistreat babies all the time too. I sort of believe the theory that men don't finish mentally developing until in their late twenties. Until that point, we take chances and act like cunts to people, because that's what drives reproduction and material acquisition. A Clockwork Orange stuff - what do we do with young men? Dangerous driving, football violence, fights in pubs, gangs. At twenty two... are you as dangerous now as you were then? Take as many chances? Or do you take care of yourself and others a bit more carefully these days. He might have been about few years away from settling down quite a bit. Still definitely a problem, he's pretty out there in not protecting the baby. But the sex drive in young men is a thing.

The question, is it safe now? I really don't know. I knew a guy who worked in a therapeutic regime style prison for people with psychological things of a similair nature. He said he really didn't believe they were actually able to change these people.

There's another twist to that story that makes the whole thing a bit of a laugh, I can't share it, but lets say, I don't really rate the psychological thing that highly, it's contradictory and flawed and complicated, it'll let people off and mess up others by going at it wrong... it's all beaurocracy, beaurocrats and doctors and therapists and patients and prisoners... and they're all just people, with their own ambitions and points of view... and it's all very laughable really that we expect it to work much if at all. But it is all we've got.

I don't know. He's what, 35 years older. I'm not saying any more than, he might have got himself sorted out. I can quite believe it. All I do know for sure is, people will spit furiously at it for their own reasons, and the politicians will make capital out of it. Whereas they need to stop playing to the gallery, and get law and order working again. But all they do is signal that the law works for one lot, and not the other, because that's politics, public opinion.

I kind of laughed this morning when the BBC flashed up that Boris had made a statement that Dowdon's suspension was 'too harsh' - I knew with all certainty at that moment there was some bad Tory news coming. It's virtue signalling. The virtue being 'tough on pedos'. Don't worry about lefties coming for you! Boris knows who you are and will keep you very safe from the lefties. Fucking laugh my arse off, it's not that it's all in your head, but it's just a masterclass in manipulating the brain dead, whilst letting law and order itself go to rot by cutting funding for police, attacking judges, and interfering with institutions.

Use your fucking brain. There's a way out of this. Look around you. Any safer now than a decade ago? The only way out is for people to use their fucking brain, and not our feeling, our silly fears, or our pride. Everyone has a right to get angry at life. And there are reasons to be scared and upset at various groups, and to call them out. But we've got to be honest doing that well means putting aside our feelings when asking politicians to sort out the law, the economy, crime and punishment. People are after quick fixes that suit them, and often for the pettiest of reasons. That's why the politicians and politics works the way it does. Because that's what people ask, when they forget to think about what really is needed. Every quick fix, every public signalling, it's just taking us further and further away from what works. Which is good, solid, educated and ruthlessly debated laws, a well funded and motivated police force not subject to the dictats of whicever minister needs to get a win in the papers. Prosecutions services who don't bend with every political moment or every new trait, who will prosecute anyone, for anything, if the law requires it and it's practical and worth it. And a judiciary that isn't interfered with, judges and courts as much as possible not influenced by anything beyond the cases and the books would mean.

We get what we ask for. Which is absolute tosh that changes from moment to moment, according to how a story is reported, or how people feel. Stop asking for this case or that case, this one has to stay in forever. Stop asking them to make you feel better. You're not a child. Ask for the stuff that makes the law work. That's your adult responsibility.
 
Summerbuzz said:
You can say it's soft, but.... 35 years is hardly a short stretch for a 22 year old. More than two mandatory 'life' sentences (18 years) put together.

And he'll have a lot of restrictions placed on him. Mobile phones and internet, where he goes, people he associates with.

I'm interested to find out if people want him locked up for protection, or punishment?
Click to expand...
Protection
 
Summerbuzz said:
You can say it's soft, but.... 35 years is hardly a short stretch for a 22 year old. More than two mandatory 'life' sentences (18 years) put together.

And he'll have a lot of restrictions placed on him. Mobile phones and internet, where he goes, people he associates with.

I'm interested to find out if people want him locked up for protection, or punishment?
Click to expand...
I'm in the locked up for punishment camp, you will never rehabilitate a guy who thinks it is okay to rape and murder girls or planned on being a serial killer.

But what would be wrong with 'protecting' other young girls from being attacked by the likes of this maniac?

Fuck, you can't even rehabilitate a petty thief anyway, as they are thieving for a reason and that reason never changes when they are released, a lack of money, no job etc.

Keep the **** locked up where you know he isn't going to do it again.
 
bluealf said:
Fuck, you can't even rehabilitate a petty thief anyway, as they are thieving for a reason and that reason never changes when they are released, a lack of money, no job etc.
Click to expand...
Yes you can

Timpson Foundation | Timpson Group

The Timpson Foundation specialises in recruiting marginalised groups, such as ex-offenders and care leavers. Find out how it all works!
www.timpson-group.co.uk www.timpson-group.co.uk
 
Summerbuzz said:
Yeah.. I dunno. People mistreat babies all the time too. I sort of believe the theory that men don't finish mentally developing until in their late twenties. Until that point, we take chances and act like cunts to people, because that's what drives reproduction and material acquisition. A Clockwork Orange stuff - what do we do with young men? Dangerous driving, football violence, fights in pubs, gangs. At twenty two... are you as dangerous now as you were then? Take as many chances? Or do you take care of yourself and others a bit more carefully these days. He might have been about few years away from settling down quite a bit. Still definitely a problem, he's pretty out there in not protecting the baby. But the sex drive in young men is a thing.

The question, is it safe now? I really don't know. I knew a guy who worked in a therapeutic regime style prison for people with psychological things of a similair nature. He said he really didn't believe they were actually able to change these people.

There's another twist to that story that makes the whole thing a bit of a laugh, I can't share it, but lets say, I don't really rate the psychological thing that highly, it's contradictory and flawed and complicated, it'll let people off and mess up others by going at it wrong... it's all beaurocracy, beaurocrats and doctors and therapists and patients and prisoners... and they're all just people, with their own ambitions and points of view... and it's all very laughable really that we expect it to work much if at all. But it is all we've got.

I don't know. He's what, 35 years older. I'm not saying any more than, he might have got himself sorted out. I can quite believe it. All I do know for sure is, people will spit furiously at it for their own reasons, and the politicians will make capital out of it. Whereas they need to stop playing to the gallery, and get law and order working again. But all they do is signal that the law works for one lot, and not the other, because that's politics, public opinion.

I kind of laughed this morning when the BBC flashed up that Boris had made a statement that Dowdon's suspension was 'too harsh' - I knew with all certainty at that moment there was some bad Tory news coming. It's virtue signalling. The virtue being 'tough on pedos'. Don't worry about lefties coming for you! Boris knows who you are and will keep you very safe from the lefties. Fucking laugh my arse off, it's not that it's all in your head, but it's just a masterclass in manipulating the brain dead, whilst letting law and order itself go to rot by cutting funding for police, attacking judges, and interfering with institutions.

Use your fucking brain. There's a way out of this. Look around you. Any safer now than a decade ago? The only way out is for people to use their fucking brain, and not our feeling, our silly fears, or our pride. Everyone has a right to get angry at life. And there are reasons to be scared and upset at various groups, and to call them out. But we've got to be honest doing that well means putting aside our feelings when asking politicians to sort out the law, the economy, crime and punishment. People are after quick fixes that suit them, and often for the pettiest of reasons. That's why the politicians and politics works the way it does. Because that's what people ask, when they forget to think about what really is needed. Every quick fix, every public signalling, it's just taking us further and further away from what works. Which is good, solid, educated and ruthlessly debated laws, a well funded and motivated police force not subject to the dictats of whicever minister needs to get a win in the papers. Prosecutions services who don't bend with every political moment or every new trait, who will prosecute anyone, for anything, if the law requires it and it's practical and worth it. And a judiciary that isn't interfered with, judges and courts as much as possible not influenced by anything beyond the cases and the books would mean.

We get what we ask for. Which is absolute tosh that changes from moment to moment, according to how a story is reported, or how people feel. Stop asking for this case or that case, this one has to stay in forever. Stop asking them to make you feel better. You're not a child. Ask for the stuff that makes the law work. That's your adult responsibility.
Click to expand...

And its soon forgotten. There's advertising space to sell don't you know.
 
Summerbuzz said:
Yeah.. I dunno. People mistreat babies all the time too. I sort of believe the theory that men don't finish mentally developing until in their late twenties. Until that point, we take chances and act like cunts to people, because that's what drives reproduction and material acquisition. A Clockwork Orange stuff - what do we do with young men? Dangerous driving, football violence, fights in pubs, gangs. At twenty two... are you as dangerous now as you were then? Take as many chances? Or do you take care of yourself and others a bit more carefully these days. He might have been about few years away from settling down quite a bit. Still definitely a problem, he's pretty out there in not protecting the baby. But the sex drive in young men is a thing.

The question, is it safe now? I really don't know. I knew a guy who worked in a therapeutic regime style prison for people with psychological things of a similair nature. He said he really didn't believe they were actually able to change these people.

There's another twist to that story that makes the whole thing a bit of a laugh, I can't share it, but lets say, I don't really rate the psychological thing that highly, it's contradictory and flawed and complicated, it'll let people off and mess up others by going at it wrong... it's all beaurocracy, beaurocrats and doctors and therapists and patients and prisoners... and they're all just people, with their own ambitions and points of view... and it's all very laughable really that we expect it to work much if at all. But it is all we've got.

I don't know. He's what, 35 years older. I'm not saying any more than, he might have got himself sorted out. I can quite believe it. All I do know for sure is, people will spit furiously at it for their own reasons, and the politicians will make capital out of it. Whereas they need to stop playing to the gallery, and get law and order working again. But all they do is signal that the law works for one lot, and not the other, because that's politics, public opinion.

I kind of laughed this morning when the BBC flashed up that Boris had made a statement that Dowdon's suspension was 'too harsh' - I knew with all certainty at that moment there was some bad Tory news coming. It's virtue signalling. The virtue being 'tough on pedos'. Don't worry about lefties coming for you! Boris knows who you are and will keep you very safe from the lefties. Fucking laugh my arse off, it's not that it's all in your head, but it's just a masterclass in manipulating the brain dead, whilst letting law and order itself go to rot by cutting funding for police, attacking judges, and interfering with institutions.

Use your fucking brain. There's a way out of this. Look around you. Any safer now than a decade ago? The only way out is for people to use their fucking brain, and not our feeling, our silly fears, or our pride. Everyone has a right to get angry at life. And there are reasons to be scared and upset at various groups, and to call them out. But we've got to be honest doing that well means putting aside our feelings when asking politicians to sort out the law, the economy, crime and punishment. People are after quick fixes that suit them, and often for the pettiest of reasons. That's why the politicians and politics works the way it does. Because that's what people ask, when they forget to think about what really is needed. Every quick fix, every public signalling, it's just taking us further and further away from what works. Which is good, solid, educated and ruthlessly debated laws, a well funded and motivated police force not subject to the dictats of whicever minister needs to get a win in the papers. Prosecutions services who don't bend with every political moment or every new trait, who will prosecute anyone, for anything, if the law requires it and it's practical and worth it. And a judiciary that isn't interfered with, judges and courts as much as possible not influenced by anything beyond the cases and the books would mean.

We get what we ask for. Which is absolute tosh that changes from moment to moment, according to how a story is reported, or how people feel. Stop asking for this case or that case, this one has to stay in forever. Stop asking them to make you feel better. You're not a child. Ask for the stuff that makes the law work. That's your adult responsibility.
Click to expand...

You have to look at his progression, it was deliberate only ended when h was finally brought to book. It will be interesting when they legalise marijuana and then methamphetamine and then heroin and then cocaine.
 
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