Colin Shindler in the Mail

[BringBackSwales]

I cannot think of a better compliment to 2 BLUES than to call them proper Blues?

I think being called a 'proper Blue' is something we all aspire to. Thanks. I really do appreciate all comments. Thanks.

Incidentally, in 1993-4 when I met with Headline publishing company about my proposal for a book on MCFC post Mercer (my biography of Joe came out in 1993 "Football With A Smile" and I wanted to write a book on the Swales period, ending with Franny Lee's takeover) they loved the idea (I still have the correspondence) but....

They said that it wasn't great from a selling point of view as the story wasn't either all success or all failure. City were not a club that they could promote. It had to have an angle. They said: "How about turning it into a comparison between City and United? Utd the success, City the failure... You could have United in the title - that would make it sell."

I immediately refused, pointing out that this would be a book about City, not a comparison. Instead, I went to Polar and published "Manchester The Greatest City" (it took me another 4 years to finish it). Around the same time as my book came out Headline published "Manchester Utd Ruined My Life". It became a major bestseller.

Got 3 of your books - Joe Mercer football with a smile, Manchester the greatest City one, and also the Manchester Derbies One (I think that was one of your's mate?)

 

[shinpads]

I cannot think of a better compliment to 2 BLUES than to call them proper Blues?

I think being called a 'proper Blue' is something we all aspire to. Thanks. I really do appreciate all comments. Thanks.

Incidentally, in 1993-4 when I met with Headline publishing company about my proposal for a book on MCFC post Mercer (my biography of Joe came out in 1993 "Football With A Smile" and I wanted to write a book on the Swales period, ending with Franny Lee's takeover) they loved the idea (I still have the correspondence) but....

They said that it wasn't great from a selling point of view as the story wasn't either all success or all failure. City were not a club that they could promote. It had to have an angle. They said: "How about turning it into a comparison between City and United? Utd the success, City the failure... You could have United in the title - that would make it sell."

I immediately refused, pointing out that this would be a book about City, not a comparison. Instead, I went to Polar and published "Manchester The Greatest City" (it took me another 4 years to finish it). Around the same time as my book came out Headline published "Manchester Utd Ruined My Life". It became a major bestseller.

Gary not only are you a "propper blue" you kept your integrity. I for one am impressed with your work and am currently reading Manchester a football history. I wonder howm many copies of schindlers book were sold in airports soley on the back of the title, rags as we know will buy any old crap if it has their name on it.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

OK lads - here it is. Let me know what you think.

Shindler's Lost (His Love For City). An open letter to Colin Shindler from the Manchester City fans on Bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk:

Dear Colin,

Your article in the Daily Mail certainly generated some comment on the City websites and forums. However, I don't believe it is representative of the views of the vast majority of your fellow fans.

Being a City fan is a unique experience. What other club could win the title one season then get relegated the next, with much the same squad, despite being the top goal-scorers in the division? What other team could attempt to play out a draw in the last match of the season, not realising they actually needed to win to avoid relegation? Which was the first club to win a European trophy and end up playing in League 1? What other club could be taken over by a billionaire with no money? There’s only one and that’s the club that we (but maybe not you) still love. And isn’t that maddening but somehow endearing capacity to do the unexpected why we loved City?

Many would agree that we lost something when David Bernstein left at a time when things were really starting to look up for the club. We were back in the Premiership after years in the wilderness, with a high-profile manager, an exciting team and brand-new stadium promising extra revenue. Yet somehow, a few seasons later, despite being one of the best supported clubs in the Premiership and having one of the highest revenues outside the top four, we ended up flirting with relegation under Stuart Pearce, with John Wardle having to prop the club up financially. Some fans fell out of love with City then but most of us ploughed on, hoping against hope that things might get better one day.

Thaksin’s ownership was indeed “smoke and mirrors” and he nearly took us to the brink of disaster. Yet we still went to games because the soul of any club is not the chairman, the manager or the players. They come and go, while we remain. We, the fans, are the soul of the club because we know our history, we have experienced the highs and lows and we have the trademark City sense of humour. We don’t go in for maudlin self-pity; we take the knocks, move on and laugh about it afterwards.

Do you really think we had any more “soul” when we were owned and run, with varying degrees of ineptitude, by a series of local businessmen made good? Or was that ineptitude, in your eyes, what gave us that “soul”? Was being everyone’s favourite laughing stock, the Comedy Club, the Theatre of Base Comedy what gave us that “soul”?

Now we have new owners (or “…that Abu Dhabi lot…” as you disrespectfully refer to them) who have lots of money and are prepared to invest it in the club. There may be something in it for them but there’s a lot more in it for us. Money does not in itself ensure success, as Newcastle fans know, and we’ve won nothing yet so I’m not counting my chickens. But more importantly than giving us trophies, the new owners have given us and the club their respect. They are professional and now see us as true stakeholders, to be consulted and encouraged, instead of just as “customers”.

The owners don’t just pay lip service to the club’s history but have tried hard to understand it. One of the first people they spoke to was the then club historian Gary James in order to understand just where City had come from and what it was. They understand our relationship with the club and what we want from it, off the field as well as on it. And they are delivering. At the UEFA Cup Quarter Final against FC Hamburg, they reduced entrance prices to £5 in order to have a full house that would generate an atmosphere. And there was an electric atmosphere that night. Were you there? I resent your statement that the club is “…rotten to the core…” On the contrary it’s more vibrant and exciting than it’s ever been since the 1960’s and 99.9% of us are looking forward to the future. There’s more soul there now than there has been for years.

Things have changed in the world and the game of football, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse and sometimes for both better and worse. Likewise, the Manchester City you knew has changed. You knew her as a dotty, eccentric, slightly down-at-heel young girl, who could be amusing and irritating in turn. Someone the local lads laughed at while wolf-whistling at the local vamp in red. But for all her imperfections, you and her other friends loved her even though she embarrassed you from time to time.

Well now she’s won the lottery, had liposuction, a facelift, boob job and gone on a shopping spree at Harvey Nicks. She’s gone from being a mousey brunette to being a striking blonde. She looks like a million dollars but hasn’t lost her sense of fun. She’s someone you want to be seen with even if you’re still not sure she’s not going to do something she really shouldn’t.

And everyone’s taking notice now so you perhaps feel a little jealous of all the attention she’s getting and that’s only natural. But she’s made it clear that she’s not going back to what she was, just to keep you happy. There are new people chasing her affections and new places to go. But as long as we are still there in her inner circle, she’ll never be allowed to forget what she once was. We’ll still be her real soul. So swallow your pride, stop whingeing and get on the bus. It’s going to be an exciting ride.

 

[Dyed Petya]

Personally, I like that a lot, Prestwich_Blue. Would happily put my name to it as a user of this forum.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Very good, PB. I like the way you have incorporated some of the better elements of this thread in it.

 

[emilymcfc]

For what it's worth I have also sent the Mail an article in a kind of response to the utter rubbish that Shindler wrote. Will let you know if I hear back!

 

[Rammyblues]

Shindler's Lost (His Love For City). An open letter to Colin Shindler from the Manchester City fans on Bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk:

Dear Colin,

Your article in the Daily Mail certainly generated some comment on the City websites and forums. However, I don't believe it is representative of the views of the vast majority of your fellow fans.

Being a City fan is a unique experience. What other club could win the title one season then get relegated the next, with much the same squad, despite being the top goal-scorers in the division? What other team could attempt to play out a draw in the last match of the season, not realising they actually needed to win to avoid relegation? Which was the first club to win a European trophy and end up playing in League 1? What other club could be taken over by a billionaire with no money? There’s only one and that’s the club that we (but maybe not you) still love. And isn’t that maddening but somehow endearing capacity to do the unexpected why we loved City?

Many would agree that we lost something when David Bernstein left at a time when things were really starting to look up for the club. We were back in the Premiership after years in the wilderness, with a high-profile manager, an exciting team and brand-new stadium promising extra revenue. Yet somehow, a few seasons later, despite being one of the best supported clubs in the Premiership and having one of the highest revenues outside the top four, we ended up flirting with relegation under Stuart Pearce, with John Wardle having to prop the club up financially. Some fans fell out of love with City then but most of us ploughed on, hoping against hope that things might get better one day.

Thaksin’s ownership was indeed “smoke and mirrors” and he nearly took us to the brink of disaster. Yet we still went to games because the soul of any club is not the chairman, the manager or the players. They come and go, while we remain. We, the fans, are the soul of the club because we know our history, we have experienced the highs and lows and we have the trademark City sense of humour. We don’t go in for maudlin self-pity; we take the knocks, move on and laugh about it afterwards.

Do you really think we had any more “soul” when we were owned and run, with varying degrees of ineptitude, by a series of local businessmen made good? Or was that ineptitude, in your eyes, what gave us that “soul”? Was being everyone’s favourite laughing stock, the Comedy Club, the Theatre of Base Comedy what gave us that “soul”?

Now we have new owners (or “…that Abu Dhabi lot…” as you disrespectfully refer to them) who have lots of money and are prepared to invest it in the club. There may be something in it for them but there’s a lot more in it for us. Money does not in itself ensure success, as Newcastle fans know, and we’ve won nothing yet so I’m not counting my chickens. But more importantly than giving us trophies, the new owners have given us and the club their respect. They are professional and now see us as true stakeholders, to be consulted and encouraged, instead of just as “customers”.

The owners don’t just pay lip service to the club’s history but have tried hard to understand it. One of the first people they spoke to was the then club historian Gary James in order to understand just where City had come from and what it was. They understand our relationship with the club and what we want from it, off the field as well as on it. And they are delivering. At the UEFA Cup Quarter Final against FC Hamburg, they reduced entrance prices to £5 in order to have a full house that would generate an atmosphere. And there was an electric atmosphere that night. Were you there? I resent your statement that the club is “…rotten to the core…” On the contrary it’s more vibrant and exciting than it’s ever been since the 1960’s and 99.9% of us are looking forward to the future. There’s more soul there now than there has been for years.

Things have changed in the world and the game of football, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse and sometimes for both better and worse. Likewise, the Manchester City you knew has changed. You knew her as a dotty, eccentric, slightly down-at-heel young girl, who could be amusing and irritating in turn. Someone the local lads laughed at while wolf-whistling at the local vamp in red. But for all her imperfections, you and her other friends loved her even though she embarrassed you from time to time.

Well now she’s won the lottery, had liposuction, a facelift, boob job and gone on a shopping spree at Harvey Nicks. She’s gone from being a mousey brunette to being a striking blonde. She looks like a million dollars but hasn’t lost her sense of fun. She’s someone you want to be seen with even if you’re still not sure she’s not going to do something she really shouldn’t.

And everyone’s taking notice now so you perhaps feel a little jealous of all the attention she’s getting and that’s only natural. But she’s made it clear that she’s not going back to what she was, just to keep you happy. There are new people chasing her affections and new places to go. But as long as we are still there in her inner circle, she’ll never be allowed to forget what she once was. We’ll still be her real soul. So swallow your pride, stop whingeing and get on the bus. It’s going to be an exciting ride.

Quality and agree with every comment. Schindler is a tosser of the highest order.

 

[bizzbo]

Yep, lovely riposte Prestwich. Scrupulously honest, civil and fair. More than he deserves in my opinion. There are a few mislead and embarrassing comments on this thread, but as the sneering tone of his article isn't matched to the substance of his complaints, I can understand if people are struggling to understand what it is that could drive a city fan to write such things about the club.

Personally, I think he is getting old, cranky and out of touch. He is not chummy with the inner circle any more.. not even the outer circle, as far as I can tell. This has happened to many people in recent years, but I don't remember Bernstein, for example, laying the boot in, and certainly not seeking out opportunities to do so.

Perhaps Mr Shindler in some way fears that his version of events is incompatible with our hopes of bright new future, hopes that extend far beyond what can be achieved soley through money.

The apparent object of his disdain, Garry Cook, has probably made contact more often, and with a wider range of city fans, formally and informally, over the last year, than Mr Shindler has in the last ten. Cook may lack a certain dignity, but he has the right kind of charm, and no-one doubts which side he is on. After a shaky start, he has won a reputation for making this club more professional in every regard, but most tellingly, he has helped created a club which is more open and considerate to the fans

We've all gone against the grain of popular opinion in our time. It doesn't lessen what we feel for the club in our own hearts, and even if we may have doubted our ability to continue loving the club, I doubt many of us could consider making dramatic proclamations to that effect. You know when a marriage is over? It's not when you doubt your commitment. It's not when you become separated. It's when you stop caring about the other person, when the thought of their well-being wouldn't stop you from hurting them. At that point, you seek a divorce, and if you have anything about you, you realise that you have changed as much as she has, and revert to taking care of yourself, rather than hurting the other. That is called 'maintaining a dignified silence', and it's the least someone you professed to love for 30 years deserves.

 

[spursmad321]

An Interesting read..............

I came across this article and I thought you Guys & Gals might like to read it.



The heart has been ripped from the club I have loved for 50 years
By Colin Shindler
Last updated at 2:07 AM on 03rd August 2009

Comments (91)
Add to My Stories
You see, doctor, we were childhood sweethearts, that's why it hurts so much.

I can honestly say I can't remember a time in my life when I didn't support Manchester City - body and soul and mind - but now I . . . it hurts too much . . . I can't say the words.

Right from the start I loved everything about City - the pale blue colour of their shirts, the pristine white of their shorts, the cathedral that was Maine Road towering majestically over the two-up, two-down terrace houses of Moss Side.

It was my spiritual home - much more than the synagogue, out of whose doors I sprinted every Saturday lunchtime to be home for Sports Parade - you see, doctor, even you haven't heard of Sports Parade. It was the preview programme on the radio long before Sam Leitch presented Football Focus on the telly – that's how long ago it was, doctor.


Glory days: Manchester City skipper Tony Book holds the FA Cup aloft after the 1969 FA Cup final win over Leicester

I wanted them to win every match and I was devastated when they didn't. Of course, it wasn't logical, doctor, there is no logic in supporting a football team of mortal men with that amount of devotion. But there was one man who made it all worthwhile.

He was a German, a product of the Hitler Jugend but he came to England as a prisoner of war and stayed to keep goal for Manchester City until 1964. His name was Bert Trautmann and he was the best goalie in the whole wide world. I wanted to be him and so did my best friend, Jeff Cohen.

Yes, doctor, I do understand the incongruity of two little Jewish boys hero-worshipping an ex-Nazi paratrooper within a few years of the end of a war in which his fellow countrymen had murdered six million of our co-religionists. But he played like a hero for City and surely you remember that he broke his neck in the 1956 Cup final and played on and won the Cup for us. How could you not forgive him?

Well, of course, I grew up but that didn't change my love for my team. If anything it grew stronger. My mother died when I was 13 and my life felt as if it had been shattered beyond repair. What saved me was that every Saturday afternoon I went to watch Trautmann and Bill Leivers and Joe Hayes and a Scottish goalscoring machine, a one season wonder called Alex Harley.


Pain in the neck: Bert Trautmann bravely dives in at Peter Murphy's feet during the 1956 FA Cup final but pays the price


Harley scored over 30 goals in that 1962-63 season but we were relegated to Division Two. Can you believe the luck? My mother dies in September and the following May it's either City or United for the final relegation place. In the match that decided it, the biased Red loving referee rules out a legitimate Harley goal that would have put us 2-0 up and then he gives them a penalty when Denis Law trips over Harry Dowd, the young City goalie.

United scrape an entirely undeserved 1-1 draw and we go down. What did I ever do that could have brought down that kind of Divine retribution on me?

Yes, doctor, I do understand how I transferred the love I had for my mother to a bunch of underperforming footballers in south Manchester, but you see, and this is the joy of life - or at least it is the joy of sport - there is always the possibility of redemption.


Tough guy: Trautman walks off rubbing his 'sore' neck in the final - which turned out to be broken

In July 1965, Joe Mercer and Malcolm Allison took over the club and we all embarked with them on a journey for the next few years that would cause many of us, well me anyway, to be writing about it in books and newspapers for the next 40 years.

It was the high point of our romance. What had started out as a childish obsession had grown into a full-blown love affair. Manchester City and I officially became lovers on May 11, 1968, when goals from Summerbee, Young (2) and Lee gave us a nerve-jangling 4-3 victory at St James' Park, where we snatched the League Championship from a stricken United, who had only the winning of the European Cup later that month to comfort themselves with.

Then came the children . . . the FA Cup in 1969, the League Cup and the European Cup-winners' Cup in 1970. City and I were the parents of those delightful kids and we even survived that horrible time when our beloved Joe and Malcolm left and the club was entrusted to the Machiavellian devices of Peter Swales, the chairman whose ambition saw the back of the men who had given us those days of wine and roses and trophies.


Back from the depths: Jubilant City players celebrate their 1999 victory in the Division Two Play-Off Final against Gillingham played at Wembley

I kept a place in my heart for Joe and Malcolm for a long time. Some would say too long. But only those who have loved as long and as deeply could understand what had so cruelly been taken away.



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It wasn't as though what followed was a complete disaster. True, we lost a Wembley final in 1974 with the Famous Five forward line of Summerbee, Bell, Lee, Law and Marsh, but ever-faithful Tony Book, captain in the Glory Days, managed a team that blended the experience of Colin Bell, Dave Watson, Mike Doyle, Asa Hartford and Joe Royle with the promise of the young Peter Barnes and Gary Owen.



Glory day: Colin Shindler meets City legend Colin Bell

The marriage was utterly perfect. For richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, we were one, indissoluble in our love for each other. There was plenty of poorer and sickness coming up - the disastrous Second Coming of Malcolm Allison, Steve Daley and everything that fated transfer implied (including the financial impoverishment which lasted for more than 20 years) was followed by years of relegations and promotions. The Nineties was probably the decade that tested our love for each other more than any other. It wasn't just that City were a shambles but the other lot from the Cheshire side of Manchester had finally thrown enough money at their problems to solve them.

And that was the story - how wonderful they were and how inept we were. If you keep the problems in the family you can deal with them far better than if they are exhibited to the public gaze. But with a football team it's rather hard to disguise the fact that you're playing Wrexham and you're 10th in what used to be called the Third Division. By now my son and my daughter were grown up and had suffered a childhood of taunts and teasing.

I am proud to say that their faith in Manchester City had never wavered. They knew the meaning of love that their father had painstakingly taught them. And then, just as I had told them, came that moment of redemption. David Bernstein became the chairman of the club, Joe Royle and then Kevin Keegan became the manager, we signed Ali Benarbia and Shaun Goater and we played some dazzling football and collected three promotions (and two relegations) in five years.


Getting shirty: Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra bought the club in 2007- but soon sold up


From the legendary Second Division play-off final against Gillingham in May 1999 it took only four years before we were playing European football again. It was an astonishing revival and, with Bernstein in charge, this revival would surely be much more solidly based.

So much for fond dreams. Yes, doctor, I agree with you. I should have known better. But when Bernstein left in 2003 something seemed to leave the club with him and for the first time I started to wonder about my relationship with Manchester City.

Maybe it was my own circumstances. My beautiful wife died of cancer in 2005. The impact of this tragedy tore at the wounds opened up by the death of my mother 43 years earlier, but this time City didn't staunch the flow of blood as they had in 1962. Eastlands wasn't Maine Road, Stuart Pearce wasn't Joe Mercer, Nicolas Anelka was no substitute for Francis Lee. And now, when they ran out of money, my beloved City took to the streets and lifted her skirt at every passing lecherous bloke with five quid in his pocket.


Money men: Boss Mark Hughes and executive chairman Garry Cook pose with the Abu Dhabi chairman and owner


Mancunians sold my love to a man from Thailand who was on the Most Wanted list of Amnesty International. It didn't faze the marketing manager he appointed, who thought Thaksin Shinawatra was a good bloke with whom to play golf.

Too many fans looked no further than the money. Shinawatra's money was all smoke and mirrors. At least this Abu Dhabi lot have got money, but that's all they've got. They've taken my love who Shinawatra turned into a whore, cloaked her in the finest of silk dresses and doused her in the most seductive of Arabian fragrances.

I don't recognise her any longer. She might look beautiful but she's rotten at the core. I still love her. How could I not after all these years? The opposite of love is indifference and I'm certainly not indifferent to what happens to Manchester City.

I sit here cradling Ollie, my newborn grandson, in his pale blue kit, telling him tales of mighty City games and players that I loved. I hope that one day the phone will ring or there will be a knock at the door and she'll be there, just as she was, my team, the team of the blue half of Manchester, proud of her roots in the honest soil of Lancashire. I want to love Manchester City again, doctor. Just now . . . I simply can't.


Read more: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1203845/The-heart-ripped-club-I-loved-50-years.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0NH07swH0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z0NH07swH0</a>

 

[pominoz]

Re: An Interesting read..............

Old news,plus the guys a dick.