Comparing Speeches: Clinton Vs Obama

[Bigga]

More yanks than you think Bigga.

But, wouldn't that set your country back, with that attitude? You know, how the rest of the world think "Dumb yanks!"??

Is the Republican strategy really THAT simple?

 

[Knight1979]

More yanks than you think Bigga.

But, wouldn't that set your country back, with that attitude? You know, how the rest of the world think "Dumb yanks!"??

Is the Republican strategy really THAT simple?

Yes it is. Swift Boat veterans? Checkers the dog? The Republicans have no faith in Americans and play upon ignorance and fear. The Demos have a little bit of faith. They polled women who voted for Bushy their main reason for voting for him? Rugged looks, or they reminded them of their father. Same for Reagan.

 

[ElanJo]

Just listened to both of them. Made me feel physically sick, tbh.

I'd expand, but I need to go wash my ears out with acid.

 

[Knight1979]

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/91757

I am convinced Palin is a CIA operative put together from the ground up

"her son enlisted in the military September 11th 2007 and will soon go to Iraq"

FFS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bigga]

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/91757

I am convinced Palin is a CIA operative put together from the ground up

"her son enlisted in the military September 11th 2007 and will soon go to Iraq"

FFS!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I meant before, Knight! She's a Republican Party Dream!!

See, it's like she's bionic. Put together, like you say!

Better. Faster. Stronger (younger!!)... than Hillary Clinton!

 

[Knight1979]

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/91757

I am convinced Palin is a CIA operative put together from the ground up

"her son enlisted in the military September 11th 2007 and will soon go to Iraq"

FFS!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I meant before, Knight! She's a Republican Party Dream!!

See, it's like she's bionic. Put together, like you say!

Better. Faster. Stronger (younger!!)... than Hillary Clinton!

Yup I see your point Bigga I just hope voters can see this like you said......oh her sons name is Track, as in "Track and Field".......????

 

[mat]

The campaigns just become Commander in Chief V's the West Wing.

 

[Bigga]

Pffffff... hahahahaha!!!

You couldn't dream it up if you were on acid, sniffing poppers, whilst eating a space cake!

 

[mat]

Pffffff... hahahahaha!!!

You couldn't dream it up if you were on acid, sniffing poppers, whilst eating a space cake!

It has everything. All we need now is vote rigging and we know how good the republicans are good at that....

 

[ElanJo]

Ok, back from washing my ears out with vinegar (couldnt find any acid so it had to do)

Thing is, I just cannot stand all this collectivist talk. Obama's speech was rife with it and there were times where it was perilously close to demanding people work for the state and the "greater good".

The fundamental problem with the majority of voters is they all are voting for a slice of the pie - at the expense of someone else. Equality? give it up. It is not possible, nor is it advisable. Government cannot regulate people into treating others with respect, especially not a Government that relies on keeping one section of the population happy over another.

Obama wont help the poor and black communities. He can't , 'cos he refuses to dismantle the failure of the century - "The War on Drugs". It was built upon good intentions, but good intentions is utterly irrelevant(we all know of the road that is paved with them). Only the outcome of a piece of legislation is what matters, and the outcome of the "War on Drugs" has been, and continues to be, disastrous. It gave Drug Barons a monopoly, made drugs extremely dangerous (Drug Cartels aren't the most responsible of people) leading to countless deaths , it filled the prisons with non-violent "criminals" , has taken incredible amounts of manpower and resources away from real, violent crimes and , last but not least, makes a mockery of the word "freedom". Who the hell are a bunch of suits in Washington, or in my case, London, to tell me what I can and cant put into my body? It's Orwellian, and akin to making certain books illegal - hey, there are plenty of books out there that could, and have caused war, murder, poverty, tyranny, genocide etc - The Bible being an obvious, but good, example ;)

All his speech was about what he/Government is going to give you, acting as tho the Government is some kind of Roman Abramovich who actually makes it's own money. It doesn't. It gets it off us (some legitimately .. I have no problem with the voluntary taxes ) by stealing from our paychecks at gunpoint. Actually no. It doesn't steal it. It owns our paychecks and nicely allows us to keep a certain percentage. Legends, they are.

Also, it is so nice that the Government looks out for us. Cant wait until they make it illegal to fucking scratch your own fucking ass whilst driving. The MUEN made me sick the other day, acting as lapdogs for the fucking Politicians by going out in force, like paparazzi on heat , taking snaps of everyone who wasn't playing by the rules and plastering their faces on the front page. Wankers.

I could go on and on ranting about these anti-freedom bastards, but I've been out for a few and I reckon I'll burst a blood vessel if a keep at it :P

 

[Knight1979]

start a libertarian thread, this one is about the wonderful world of yank politics

I do share your views towards "the war on drugs" one of the most atrocious farces ever

 

[Bigga]

See, it's all very well having a pop, Elanjo. It's easy to note what was crap about the past and be cynical about whoever offers a vision of what may be, if that person puts themselves forward to lead.

So, after the fire and brimstone judgement, what is YOUR solution...?

 

[ElanJo]

See, it's all very well having a pop, Elanjo. It's easy to note what was crap about the past and be cynical about whoever offers a vision of what may be, if that person puts themselves forward to lead.

So, after the fire and brimstone judgement, what is YOUR solution...?

I wasnt aware that I was running, but hey, I'll humour you.

I'd follow the law of the land, the US Constitution, for a start. Vote out all those who have violated it and vote in those that have, and will, follow it. That would be real change. The nearest you have to that is the Constitution and Libertarian parties. Of course, there is little to no chance of it happening whilst the US is a 1 party system (yes, it is practically 1 party with a few pet project differences differentiating the 2 wings), you'd have to practically infiltrate it, but that'd be doomed to failure cos you'd get voted out when you dont vote with your wing.

For the US to have a small, freedom orientated , constitutional Government, it will take years of getting the word out and rattling people's cages out of this haze of left-right ,almost sports team attitude to politics... aswell as mass civil disobedience. An economic meltdown would soon have people thinking long and hard about the root problems. When the price of food weighs more than the product itself, they'll quickly start thinking about deficit spending and artificial interest rates (and even whether money should be backed) etc instead of whether Davina McCall let on about a wedding ring needing to be resized for one of its desperate contestants ;P . BTW, I'd be surprised if something drastic doesn't happen within the next 10-15 years, concerning the economy - sooner if Iran is invaded... which, btw, is when we should start worrying about the prospect of WW3.

Obama is an unbelievably superb speaker. I'll give him that. I only wish that we , meaning those of us fed up with big government and nanny statism, had him on our side.

I cling to the hope that he has an epiphany whilst in office. I admire his hope-filled aura and his policy on diplomacy abroad, but that is just about as far as it stretches, for me

 

[Knight1979]

I'm intrigued by guys like Paul and the libertarian party. It just seems that the "let the markets run everything" kind flies in the face of your "anti-corporatism" stance. If you left everything up to the private sector, multinational corporations would soon take the place of the "evil big government" role. I was in Houston last weekend which is the only big city in the US that has no zoning, if there ever was a free market city it would be Houston.......what a weird strange, orwellian type of place. Porno theatres right next to mega-churches in between vast swaths of commercial wasteland. Creepy....Its hard for me to picture what a libertarian vision of the future would look like and how it would function.

 

[ElanJo]

I'm intrigued by guys like Paul and the libertarian party. It just seems that the "let the markets run everything" kind flies in the face of your "anti-corporatism" stance. If you left everything up to the private sector, multinational corporations would soon take the place of the "evil big government" role. I was in Houston last weekend which is the only big city in the US that has no zoning, if there ever was a free market city it would be Houston.......what a weird strange, orwellian type of place. Porno theatres right next to mega-churches in between vast swaths of commercial wasteland. Creepy....Its hard for me to picture what a libertarian vision of the future would look like and how it would function.

Are you telling me Corporations don't run Washington now?

Surely if you make the Government small, taking its power away, Corporations have no tool to run things.

 

[Bigga]

I'm intrigued by guys like Paul and the libertarian party. It just seems that the "let the markets run everything" kind flies in the face of your "anti-corporatism" stance. If you left everything up to the private sector, multinational corporations would soon take the place of the "evil big government" role... .Its hard for me to picture what a libertarian vision of the future would look like and how it would function.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Knight1979]

Point taken. Maybe I'm naive but I've tried to picture a world in which everything we do is subject to the private sector. Every road is a toll road. Any resource imaginable including air can be bought and sold. No public education. Anything and everything can be sponsored or subject to advertising. Instead of government regulations on corporations there is just a market price attached towards the action, that's where information comes in......corporations manipulating environmental conditions so they can operate cheaply for example........is that what you want?

What about public health and safety? Private health and safety would operate in areas that would be more profitable right? (IE: where the residents can pay for it). So for the poorer neighborhoods they wouldn't have fire houses, police stations or hospitals.

 

[ElanJo]

Point taken. Maybe I'm naive but I've tried to picture a world in which everything we do is subject to the private sector. Every road is a toll road. Any resource imaginable including air can be bought and sold. No public education. Anything and everything can be sponsored or subject to advertising. Instead of government regulations on corporations there is just a market price attached towards the action, that's where information comes in......corporations manipulating environmental conditions so they can operate cheaply for example........is that what you want?

What about public health and safety? Private health and safety would operate in areas that would be more profitable right? (IE: where the residents can pay for it). So for the poorer neighborhoods they wouldn't have fire houses, police stations or hospitals.

-Well, Roads are built by Government.
-Air being bought and sold? lol, that is a very good imagination you have there. Honestly :) . Could you tell me how that would work tho? :D
- Education ,and Healthcare for that matter, are difficult whichever party, or political background you have. National Healthcare is something I think is unavoidable. Even if it wastes shedloads of money, is over-run by bureaucracy/ineptness resulting in a very poor standard of quality for what is paid for it, I think it is something Government can provide (I didnt think so a couple of years ago tho).
Education. My issue with education is the National Curriculum. Its akin to having the Government take over the News. Imagine reading a Government Newspaper or TV channel!. What you learn in schools obviously molds you, to a large degree. I dont feel too comfortable with no choice if I don't approve of the education set by a small bunch of politicians in the capital. Its a toughy. I will say tho, that if there was no Public Education, Private Education would be alot cheaper. However, I can see the potential problems with wholesale Private Schools.

As for your last point. i could counter that by saying, those people who are richer are less likely to need health and safety (by safety I take it you mean police? - which of course would be a Government job anyway - as would the army).

I don't profess to know all the answers, but one thing I'd like to point out is these "evil corporations" arnt devils who have come from another dimension. Alot of them are people like you and me. I could start up a business, it doesnt mean I suddenly become evil ..... tho , of course nowadays starting up, and keeping a small business profitable, is the hardest it has ever been with all the regulations, alot of which are absurd. I go back to the "good intentions" phrase on this aswell. Alot of supposed "Anti-Corporation" laws and regulations that have been passed actually work in favour of the Corporations. Since only the large Corporations can easily afford to comply with all the regulations it stifles competition. Small up and coming businesses just simply cannot afford to run with the regulations. Believe it or not, Corporations have been known to lobby for regulations - and I suspect that it is far more common than we know.


I honestly dont think a small Government, freedom orientated country would be as massively different/"scary" as you think. Advertisements etc are already all over the place and we all managed to get a decent deal on our PC's without the Government's help. Just imagine if the Government made the PC's. They'd be shit, late AND more expensive. Ford didn't make his cars under the direction of the Government, and most people can get cars. Look at the mess our Government makes with Public Transport.


Gonna jump in bed now, but I'll leave you with this little ditty:

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Winston Churchill.

 

[Knight1979]

I should have re-phrased air to "air space" and yes there are some hard core free marketers out there that believe everything should be in private hands and that includes airspace. I don't assume Corporations are automatically evil, their shareholders look out for their best interests just like an individual or government does. At what point could someone's own self interest interfere with the freedom of others? I guess that's the age old question isn't it? About to go out. Nice chat. I have a couple of friends who are libertarians and I enjoy talking/arguing with them. I get Monday off for labor day so I can to get hammered Sunday for the game!! C'mon city!!

oop one edit....forget government TV, what about Public TV? Where viewers actually have input on what they want to see? We have PBS (public broadcasting) in the US and the news hour with Jim Leher on PBS is the only credible TV newsource because their are no corporate sponsors. Its all publicly funded but is not a "state" channel. Whereas NBC is owned by General Electric, they make big things that explode.......so you can see the potential problem there!....probably by far the most popular TV newsource

 

[ElanJo]

I should have re-phrased air to "air space" and yes there are some hard core free marketers out there that believe everything should be in private hands and that includes airspace. I don't assume Corporations are automatically evil, their shareholders look out for their best interests just like an individual or government does. At what point could someone's own self interest interfere with the freedom of others? I guess that's the age old question isn't it? About to go out. Nice chat. I have a couple of friends who are libertarians and I enjoy talking/arguing with them. I get Monday off for labor day so I can to get hammered Sunday for the game!! C'mon city!!

That would be when the Courts get involved and where you have to prove that your rights have been violated.