Confused....and angry

[cleavers]

Elano takes the piss out of Hughes, often behind his back mocking his teamtalks, other players laugh and find it amusing, all the signs are there, Vassell and his earrings, Elano wearing trainers on the bench against Tottenham, its just not proffessional and at this level they shouldn't need mollicoddoling, TBH wont ever play again, Jo's missed training with bullshit excuses, then theres Johno ffs going off the rails. When players fucked around under Fergurson they were told and if they continued to fuc about then they were sold, you got one chance at the worlds biggest club because he had the perfect scenario to lay the law down, ts all downhill after United, well we're aiming for that as the richest club in the world, if you dont want to join the bus then fucking get off at the next stop and stop wasting yours and our time because after City its only going to be downhill for these players.

2112, you know I respect your views, and you know more about what's going on than I do, but all of what you said there points to a boss who's lost control, and that's not a good boss. The players are letting him down, but he's clearly not doing anything to help the situation.

If you're being told this then I sincerely hope that the likes of Cook and Aldridge are being told it too.

All this about Elano is fine, but why of thats the case does Hughes not out him, and kick him out ?

I'd be interested to know which players it is that are saying this stuff too, because they aren't here for City either.

At the end of the day ALL the players we have are here for the money, and couldn't give a w*nk about us the fans, they haven't done that in 25 years.

Its time our new owners came in and tossed ALL the crap away, and put professionals in to run the club along the likes of a top club, because we continue to be run like a going out of business club, as we have for the best part of the last 30 years.

Its a disgrace.

This season will drive more fans away than Pearce did, how sad is that ? Why, because we were given hope by the new owners, and what have we got 6 months down the line, same old shit that's what.

Hughes wasn't, isn't, and never will be good enough for where we were supposed to be heading, but on current form (19 points from the last 17 games (incl cup games)) we WILL go down this season if its not stopped, and he may just be good enough to get us promoted again.

 

[Marvin]

Which all points to the fact that Hughes was a bad appointment in the first place. I dunno about you lot but the last thing I want to see is a 'hard' manager managing a 'hard' team. It's clear some of the players have absolutely no respect for him and that's only gonna get worse should we get some big name players.

Look, for whatever reason MH has got a good squad of players based on ability and for whatever reason he isn't getting the best of them.

Ability alone doesn't make a good team.

The midfield at home to Forest was hopeless and it's heart was a player who has caused problems under his last 3 managers. As I said above, all managers have to deal with awkward characters, and there are other issues which I think are more important. I think you are wrong to blame the manager 100% for all our problems, after such a short period of time under his management. So far he has very little time to buy his players, and has had a lot of time with the negative aspect of the transfer speculation undermining the team spirit at the club

He has the reources. Blame him 100% if we are still in the same position in 12 months time

 

[mammutly]

Which all points to the fact that Hughes was a bad appointment in the first place. I dunno about you lot but the last thing I want to see is a 'hard' manager managing a 'hard' team. It's clear some of the players have absolutely no respect for him and that's only gonna get worse should we get some big name players.

Look, for whatever reason MH has got a good squad of players based on ability and for whatever reason he isn't getting the best of them.

Can't argue with that.

Hughes was unproven when he came here and clearly hasn't been able to step up.

 

[jay_mcfc]

No manager is ever 100% to blame but that doesn't mean the buck don't stop with him. I hope I won't be able to judge his performance in 12 months time unless I become a fan of someone like Bolton.

I think this dressing room unrest is a bit OTT, especially with the things Josh is describing. I reckon, and this is just an opinion, that if every Premiership squad has 30 players in I reckon 5 would be a little bit troublesome, all in different ways; lazy, bad attitude, gets involved in other things like drinking and going out, attention seekers, mouthy, undermine managers etc. It is up to the manager to gain the respect of those players and get the best out of the squad as a whole...Hughes is failing miserably at that. The problems start as the team is doing badly. We were performing all right at the start of the season and we've won games 6-0, 5-1 and many by 3-0...they are not scorelines of players that aren't interested and have bad attitudes.

 

[Marvin]

The case is unproven. How it could possibly be proven after 4 months I do not know!

No need to re-hash all the old arguments, but mammutly I have agreed with you about Jo, and Hughes has had barely no time at all to build his own team.

I don't buy the argument that we should be doing much better with the existing players. They were performing poorly last season, and there were major problems. Robinho and SWP have fixed the goal-scoring problems, but they could never fill the holes in midfield. In fact they have got worse given Johnson's long term absence who waa hugely significant in our good start last season.

 

[jay_mcfc]

The case is unproven. How it could possibly be proven after 4 months I do not know!

No need to re-hash all the old arguments, but mammutly I have agreed with you about Jo, and Hughes has had barely no time at all to build his own team.

I don't buy the argument that we should be doing much better with the existing players. They were performing poorly last season, and there were major problems. Robinho and SWP have fixed the goal-scoring problems, but they could never fill the holes in midfield. In fact they have got worse given Johnson's long term absence who waa hugely significant in our good start last season.

Bollocks. Top 10 side with the addition of £80m worth of talent now fairing a hell of a lot worse.

 

[eato]

The case is unproven. How it could possibly be proven after 4 months I do not know!

No need to re-hash all the old arguments, but mammutly I have agreed with you about Jo, and Hughes has had barely no time at all to build his own team.

I don't buy the argument that we should be doing much better with the existing players. They were performing poorly last season, and there were major problems. Robinho and SWP have fixed the goal-scoring problems, but they could never fill the holes in midfield. In fact they have got worse given Johnson's long term absence who waa hugely significant in our good start last season.

Agree 100% balance is our biggest problem at the moment, we simply don't have a spine

 

[Blue2112]

Elano takes the piss out of Hughes, often behind his back mocking his teamtalks, other players laugh and find it amusing, all the signs are there, Vassell and his earrings, Elano wearing trainers on the bench against Tottenham, its just not proffessional and at this level they shouldn't need mollicoddoling, TBH wont ever play again, Jo's missed training with bullshit excuses, then theres Johno ffs going off the rails. When players fucked around under Fergurson they were told and if they continued to fuc about then they were sold, you got one chance at the worlds biggest club because he had the perfect scenario to lay the law down, ts all downhill after United, well we're aiming for that as the richest club in the world, if you dont want to join the bus then fucking get off at the next stop and stop wasting yours and our time because after City its only going to be downhill for these players.

2112, you know I respect your views, and you know more about what's going on than I do, but all of what you said there points to a boss who's lost control, and that's not a good boss. The players are letting him down, but he's clearly not doing anything to help the situation.

If you're being told this then I sincerely hope that the likes of Cook and Aldridge are being told it too.

All this about Elano is fine, but why of thats the case does Hughes not out him, and kick him out ?

I'd be interested to know which players it is that are saying this stuff too, because they aren't here for City either.

At the end of the day ALL the players we have are here for the money, and couldn't give a w*nk about us the fans, they haven't done that in 25 years.

Its time our new owners came in and tossed ALL the crap away, and put professionals in to run the club along the likes of a top club, because we continue to be run like a going out of business club, as we have for the best part of the last 30 years.

Its a disgrace.

This season will drive more fans away than Pearce did, how sad is that ? Why, because we were given hope by the new owners, and what have we got 6 months down the line, same old shit that's what.

Hughes wasn't, isn't, and never will be good enough for where we were supposed to be heading, but on current form (19 points from the last 17 games (incl cup games)) we WILL go down this season if its not stopped, and he may just be good enough to get us promoted again.

Ive said on another thread that Ive also heard some things that make me scratch my head in confusion. I don't think Hughes is entirely blameless but last season its common knowledge Sven let them get away with it lightly, I know on one occasion I was waitng for autographs with the kids and it was freezing, Tord Grip came out asked who we was waiting for and went and got them off the training pitch to sign things so we could go home. Yeah it was great for us but FFS these guys are working so what if we had to wait. I know if the foreign contingent complained about training being too difficult then they were given an easy ride whereas the British based players just got on with it, these things fester and it splits players into divisions. Hughes walks in with the remit to strengthen the squad, make them fitter etc...There are a number of things that as a squad they do together and some of them dont like it, well tough titty in my opinion,they're paid handsomely and if they don't want to tow the party line why the fuck should the manager kop for it. Within weeks of Hughes arrival we were taken over and the mandate changed drastically more than than any of us could ever have imagined.

They're will be other changes made over the coming months in other aspects of the club where we are failing, for example look at the injuries certain players seem to continually pick up. There is a major project going on to transform City into one of the top clubs on and off the pitch in the world not just the Premiership, if the players want to try and destabilise the manager or his backroom staff, whats to say they wont do the same thing if another new guy comes in. It stops now and that should send a message to anyone else in the future, I'll say it again ifplayers fuck around with Fergurso theyre gone its as simple as and they generally more often than not give or take go backwards in their career. Well we have the opportunity to start right now and take this club to the very top and no player or manager is bigger than the club but the manager surely should get the support first and foremost.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Ive said on another thread that Ive also heard some things that make me scratch my head in confusion. I don't think Hughes is entirely blameless but last season its common knowledge Sven let them get away with it lightly, I know if the foreign contingent complained about training being too difficult then they were given an easy ride whereas the British based players just got on with it, these things fester and it splits players into divisions. Hughes walks in with the remit to strengthen the squad, make them fitter etc...There are a number of things that as a squad they do together and some of them dont like it, well tough titty in my opinion,they're paid handsomely and if they don't want to tow the party line why the fuck should the manager kop for it. Within weeks of Hughes arrival we were taken over and the mandate changed drastically more than than any of us could ever have imagined.

They're will be other changes made over the coming months in other aspects of the club where we are failing, for example look at the injuries certain players seem to continually pick up. There is a major project going on to transform City into one of the top clubs on and off the pitch in the world not just the Premiership, if the players want to try and destabilise the manager or his backroom staff, whats to say they wont do the same thing if another new guy comes in. It stops now and that should send a message to anyone else in the future, I'll say it again ifplayers fuck around with Fergurso theyre gone its as simple as and they generally more often than not give or take go backwards in their career. Well we have the opportunity to start right now and take this club to the very top and no player or manager is bigger than the club but the manager surely should get the support first and foremost.

I hear what you're saying but don't really see what your point is? Are you not stating that we need a bigger, stronger manager with a bigger reputation and who has experience of handling the best players around the world?

 

[Corky]

The case is unproven. How it could possibly be proven after 4 months I do not know!

No need to re-hash all the old arguments, but mammutly I have agreed with you about Jo, and Hughes has had barely no time at all to build his own team.

I don't buy the argument that we should be doing much better with the existing players. They were performing poorly last season, and there were major problems. Robinho and SWP have fixed the goal-scoring problems, but they could never fill the holes in midfield. In fact they have got worse given Johnson's long term absence who waa hugely significant in our good start last season.

Agree 100% balance is our biggest problem at the moment, we simply don't have a spine

I was saying thi a while ago, 5 midfielders 4 being attacking does not work. That is why hughes can not play Elano if SWP,Ireland and Robinho play, most of the time it will fail and Parker is a good signing.

 

[rastus]

The case is unproven. How it could possibly be proven after 4 months I do not know!

No need to re-hash all the old arguments, but mammutly I have agreed with you about Jo, and Hughes has had barely no time at all to build his own team.

I don't buy the argument that we should be doing much better with the existing players. They were performing poorly last season, and there were major problems. Robinho and SWP have fixed the goal-scoring problems, but they could never fill the holes in midfield. In fact they have got worse given Johnson's long term absence who waa hugely significant in our good start last season.

Agree 100% balance is our biggest problem at the moment, we simply don't have a spine

So that must be Elanos fault, the defence, that poor welshman must be having a nightmare ;-)
Get shut of the lot of em.
However we shouldnt be fighting a relagation battle, come on Mr Tactician, Mr Motivator do the business.

 

[lastmanback]

Which all points to the fact that Hughes was a bad appointment in the first place. I dunno about you lot but the last thing I want to see is a 'hard' manager managing a 'hard' team. It's clear some of the players have absolutely no respect for him and that's only gonna get worse should we get some big name players.

Look, for whatever reason MH has got a good squad of players based on ability and for whatever reason he isn't getting the best of them.

maybe the players should pick the next manager. Snap out of it. If you pick a team to play in the match, you should be glad to be playing and go out and make the effort. You go to work do your job and scratch your arse because your asked to do something different to your usual you won't last long there either.. Football the same. We have a team with a dodgy defence and no defensive midfield. Kompany better center half but has to be used there because All attack minded midfield players. We are not a unit. Why do you assume any other manager would have came in and got this bunch to play any different. A team has a defence, midfield and forward line. Why did the team that started last season so well not finnish even half as good. Opponents find your weakness and exploit it. We have no midfield so defence is over worked and more prone to make mistakes as a result. Not as straight forward as get Mourinho he'll wave magic wand and nobody will notice we are shit in defence and no bite in midfield.

 

[Blue2112]

Ive said on another thread that Ive also heard some things that make me scratch my head in confusion. I don't think Hughes is entirely blameless but last season its common knowledge Sven let them get away with it lightly, I know if the foreign contingent complained about training being too difficult then they were given an easy ride whereas the British based players just got on with it, these things fester and it splits players into divisions. Hughes walks in with the remit to strengthen the squad, make them fitter etc...There are a number of things that as a squad they do together and some of them dont like it, well tough titty in my opinion,they're paid handsomely and if they don't want to tow the party line why the fuck should the manager kop for it. Within weeks of Hughes arrival we were taken over and the mandate changed drastically more than than any of us could ever have imagined.

They're will be other changes made over the coming months in other aspects of the club where we are failing, for example look at the injuries certain players seem to continually pick up. There is a major project going on to transform City into one of the top clubs on and off the pitch in the world not just the Premiership, if the players want to try and destabilise the manager or his backroom staff, whats to say they wont do the same thing if another new guy comes in. It stops now and that should send a message to anyone else in the future, I'll say it again ifplayers fuck around with Fergurso theyre gone its as simple as and they generally more often than not give or take go backwards in their career. Well we have the opportunity to start right now and take this club to the very top and no player or manager is bigger than the club but the manager surely should get the support first and foremost.

I hear what you're saying but don't really see what your point is? Are you not stating that we need a bigger, stronger manager with a bigger reputation and who has experience of handling the best players around the world?

There's a number of maangers I'd much rather prefer, you know my views I'd rather see anyone without the connection but I'm not going down that road for now.

I honestly don't know if Hughes can mangage the top drawer players when the time comes too, I do believe for now we have to start adding some good Premiership players, apart from 6/7 clubs the premiership isn't that strong and with the addition of Bridge, Parker and possibly the likes of RSC, Toure etc I would expect us to climb the table and put us in a healthier position to tempt other star attractions, we might only pick up one per window between now and next January but that add to a healthier collection of stronger physically and mentally prepared players who more importantly actually want to be here and yes play for Hughes then we will be a more complete team/club again. If a Mourinho can be tempted then I'd do it but at present I really think thats a non starter. The summer may be a totally different ball game though.

 

[jay_mcfc]

maybe the players should pick the next manager. Snap out of it. If you pick a team to play in the match, you should be glad to be playing and go out and make the effort. You go to work do your job and scratch your arse because your asked to do something different to your usual you won't last long there either.. Football the same. We have a team with a dodgy defence and no defensive midfield. Kompany better center half but has to be used there because All attack minded midfield players. We are not a unit. Why do you assume any other manager would have came in and got this bunch to play any different. A team has a defence, midfield and forward line. Why did the team that started last season so well not finnish even half as good. Opponents find your weakness and exploit it. We have no midfield so defence is over worked and more prone to make mistakes as a result. Not as straight forward as get Mourinho he'll wave magic wand and nobody will notice we are shit in defence and no bite in midfield.

I never have and never will be a member of 'they're just not trying' club that football fans get themselves all wet about whenever a team goes on a bad run. No because problems are usually a lot deeper rooted than something like that.

 

[eato]

Agree 100% balance is our biggest problem at the moment, we simply don't have a spine

So that must be Elanos fault, the defence, that poor welshman must be having a nightmare ;-)
Get shut of the lot of em.
However we shouldnt be fighting a relagation battle, come on Mr Tactician, Mr Motivator do the business.

I think on paper we have a good squad and I must admit that every time I see the team sheet I can't believe that the likes of Everton at COMS can live wth us but the fact is we've got no balance. If we dont score first and knock a team off there game plan we are clueless because we leak goals for fun. We have a weak midfield that exposes an average backline that has to cover for a very poor Michael Ball therefore dragging the whole defence out of shape.

How many times has Dunne given away free kicks in dangerous wide areas because he is covering for ball's wanderings.

I really belive that a few uninspiring signings in this window will make all the difference and we will really kick on

 

[rastus]

So that must be Elanos fault, the defence, that poor welshman must be having a nightmare ;-)
Get shut of the lot of em.
However we shouldnt be fighting a relagation battle, come on Mr Tactician, Mr Motivator do the business.

I think on paper we have a good squad and I must admit that every time I see the team sheet I can't believe that the likes of Everton at COMS can live wth us but the fact is we've got no balance. If we dont score first and knock a team off there game plan we are clueless because we leak goals for fun. We have a weak midfield that exposes an average backline that has to cover for a very poor Michael Ball therefore dragging the whole defence out of shape.

How many times has Dunne given away free kicks in dangerous wide areas because he is covering for ball's wanderings.

I really belive that a few uninspiring signings in this window will make all the difference and we will really kick on

I really hope so, but hughes has made our defence into a nervous wreck. Micah, tbh at left back, hoofing the ball including hart, that is an instruction to do that.
My point is that its not all the players fault all of the time.
Remember Micah that fantastic world beating potential? no niether do I.

 

[eato]

[quote="rastusI really hope so, but hughes has made our defence into a nervous wreck. Micah, tbh at left back, hoofing the ball including hart, that is an instruction to do that.
My point is that its not all the players fault all of the time.
Remember Micah that fantastic world beating potential? no niether do I.[/quote]

We hoofed the ball last year and I think that is down to a lack of confidence and no out ball

Something has happened with the defence this year because it aint that different to the one we had last year. I think that Johnson is the difference and the sooner we get a box to box player (parker) in the side we will see a difference

 

[rastus]

[quote="rastusI really hope so, but hughes has made our defence into a nervous wreck. Micah, tbh at left back, hoofing the ball including hart, that is an instruction to do that.
My point is that its not all the players fault all of the time.
Remember Micah that fantastic world beating potential? no niether do I.

We hoofed the ball last year and I think that is down to a lack of confidence and no out ball

Something has happened with the defence this year because it aint that different to the one we had last year. I think that Johnson is the difference and the sooner we get a box to box player (parker) in the side we will see a difference[/quote]

yes again i hope so, give them more protection and movement with the abilty to go forward.
and parker will hopefully make a difference, no will make a difference

 

[eato]

[quote="rastusI really hope so, but hughes has made our defence into a nervous wreck. Micah, tbh at left back, hoofing the ball including hart, that is an instruction to do that.
My point is that its not all the players fault all of the time.
Remember Micah that fantastic world beating potential? no niether do I.

We hoofed the ball last year and I think that is down to a lack of confidence and no out ball

Something has happened with the defence this year because it aint that different to the one we had last year. I think that Johnson is the difference and the sooner we get a box to box player (parker) in the side we will see a difference

yes again i hope so, give them more protection and movement with the abilty to go forward.
and parker will hopefully make a difference, no will make a difference[/quote]

Thats the spirit fella ;) if we can all think like that then who knows what we can achieve :) or is that too positive?

 

[Wooderbeen]

At the risk of repeating myself and others, I've got no problem with Hughes receiving a considerable amount of criticism for the part he has played in the disappointment that this season has been so far. What I find completely and utterly blinkered however, is this view that the players are somehow blameless and that if they don't perform then it is Hughes' fault. It's a view that is just plain wrong. Not opinion... just wrong.

Hughes' tactics and selections have at time bordered on insane but once those players are on the pitch they have a responsibility to him, the club, us, hell even themselves, to put in a hard graft and do what they can. Everyone has off days, I get that, but when competent players continually put in sub standard performances then I question them and them alone.

As I said, I'll blame Hughes for his apparent tactical ineptitude and for picking dross such as Vassell and Ball when he had better options, but I won't blame him for the players on the pitch playing like they have nothing riding on it.

I don't want Hughes to be sacked if I'm honest, but I would completely understand if he was and wouldn't be too bothered. That said, regardless of the manager in charge, I want to see a considerable amount of deadwood around Eastlands banished from the club for good.