Confused....and angry

[crystal_mais]

Fantastic ManCityfc....absolutely brilliant post and exactly the way I feel.

And you're banging about leaving them to it too so fuck it, I'M OUT!!!

bye Jay

 

[CBlue]

Boring!!!

Thanks for your considered opinion & taking this debate to another level...unfortunately you haven't elevated it...but thanks for trying.

 

[Brucie Bonus]

Hughes was aware of the issues when he took over the club...

1. So why does he continue to play Elano? 2. Why is he yet to "blood" any of our esteemed academy graduates? 3. Why didn't he off-load a number of these "muppets" in the 3 months he had before the window closed? 4. Why couldn't he use the proceeds from the clearout & build a balanced squad? 5. If all you say is true then why were the only players that left fringe squad players (Isacksson/Sun/Dickov/Geovanni/Mpenza/Corluka)? Or were these the trouble makers?

I'm not sure this is helping your cause.

Ah, but you have surely made your cause clear in suggesting that. I happen to have voted to remove Hughes twice on the two polls on here. I have made it clear who I want to manage City, and who I wanted as soon as the Arabs took over. You'd know that, surely, if you read more than what is on this thread. The answers to all of your questions (especially about why he didn't sell certain players) have been given by posters pro and anti-Hughes again and again (do you think you are the first to ask them?). I'm not going to do the work you won't do for yourself.

Why don't you try to answer the questions, but from Mark Hughes perspective. You might not like the answers (and sometimes there doesn't seem to be one), but they'll be reasonable, even if you disagree with them. He's made mistakes, but they are not the stuff of the stake and faggots.

I might want someone other than Mark Hughes, but I'm not going to invent faults he doesn't possess, and I'm not going to ascribe virtues to those who fail to demonstrate vital ones. I don't want Hughes as manager because I think there is someone better, but I don't feel the need to demonize him or euolgize others who are unworthy of praise.

I'll say this: if the object of the Hughes-out exercise was to win friends and influence people it was stillborn. I have seldom seen such a feeble-minded attempt at persuasion carried for so long, by so many. If Hughes does leave the club, it will not be due to the hate-filled ranting and splenetic invective that has soiled teh internets for the last three months or so.

Anyway, I hope Hughes does pull it off and goes on to be the most succesful manager in our history. So what? Good luck to him. Don't you will him to do well?

 

[crystal_mais]

Boring!!!

Thanks for your considered opinion & taking this debate to another level...unfortunately you haven't elevated it...but thanks for trying.

No Problem mate.

I have made many challenges to the views of Jay and Scorer, for the best part of 3 months they have been harping on about the same old "get rid of Hughes crap, we are the richest club on the planet and we have a god foresaken right to have the best manager and best players oh and should be challenging for Europe etc etc."

It is getting boring!!

I have a very privelaged management career which I have built up over a long time via hard work and making very tough decisions. I have supported City for 36 years now, and have seen all the crap that has gone on at the club and it does pain me. But I also have an appreciation that people need time to put into place their plans to put in place a model for continued success over the medium to long term.

I knew from about December last year, that we were very lucky under Sven and that hard times were about to come.

We only became the richest club in the world on the last day of the last Transfer Window, if it had been a few weeks earlier, I think Hughes would have bought in more players as stated he knows what the weaknesses are, and I do truly believe there is a selection of players at this club who are taking the piss.

Hughes may not be the person who will bring us the sucees in the long term, but I truly believe he will be able to put us on the ladder to success.

I think some of the fans need to take their heads out of their arses and take a look at the bigger picture and truly understand the precarious position the club has been in and try to understand that what he is trying to do is bring people in who are passionate about playing football and working hard.

Rome was definitily not built in a day, and we may need to go through a number of iterations to find the model for success, but patience is the key. Sometimes you need to take a few steps back to truly making the jump forward.

All this talk of Brazilian footballers etc, they did'nt win the last world cup and they won't win the next. They are a group of talented individuals, who are not always the best team players..

I hope you are now satisfied with my opinion.

 

[Scrabble]

This started out as a decent thread, didn't agree with all the opinions (I'm a firm Hughes supporter) but found the differing views interesting and some excellent arguments were put across on both sides.

It's just descended into a slanging match between a couple of posters now. My very brief view is that anyone that claims to have been a football fan for more than 5 minutes who genuinely believes that a manager can turn a club round in half a season is living in dreamland.

We need to back a manager 100% for a couple of seasons minimum and take the highs and the lows as they come. To query why Hughes didn't resolve all the problems before the end of the transfer window when he was appointed in June is just plain madness.

We wont go down, this season is a write off as far as I'm concerned, we will go out of the UEFA as soon as we play a decent side then lets see what the man does over the summer and if there is no improvement this time next year then I'll start asking questions, but 6 months into the job? Madness

 

[iluvrobinho]

I agree with some of what the OP has said but surely the players are not entirely blameless for the situation? They show no pride and no belief that they can win any game. When they are good they are brilliant but when they are bad they are diabolical. They need to learn that they are playing for the fans and put whatever they have against Mark Hughes behind them as thats the only way we will ever do anything if Hughes is to stay

 

[fallowfield]

This started out as a decent thread, didn't agree with all the opinions (I'm a firm Hughes supporter) but found the differing views interesting and some excellent arguments were put across on both sides.

It's just descended into a slanging match between a couple of posters now.

A perfect analysis of this site.

 

[ello_jo]

Hughes tactics do seem to be mostly to blame, last year there was no oofing of the ball up field and we were a better team all round. Sven proved we are a top 9 team, despite his bad end to the season, so why are we not with mark hughes? Why has he got the god given right to have money to spend in january? We have got a good enough team to be up in the top half anyways, its down to the way he plays these players that alters our game.

 

[mancity1]

I don't think CBLUE is expecting us after 20 games to be on Liverpools heals but is asking what are the main factors as to why we are not on Villa's coat tails as we move into he second week of January.

I am generally pessimistic about City especially when the players and managers start pumping us up as a team on the up and challenging for Euro places on results etc but.

6-4-10 and look at the quality of the opposition in some of those 10 defeats and the circumstances we were in some of those matches combined with early exits in both domestic cup competitions and you have to believe it is logical to ask questions over the ability of management to manage the team effectively and get the best out of the playing group.

It might change for the better after the window , it might not but every day decisions have to made in the best interests of the club and what is required to get the best results on matchday from the side we have to put on to the park.

 

[crystal_mais]

I don't think CBLUE is expecting us after 20 games to be on Liverpools heals but is asking what are the main factors as to why we are not on Villa's coat tails as we move into he second week of January.

I am generally pessimistic about City especially when the players and managers start pumping us up as a team on the up and challenging for Euro places on results etc but.

6-4-10 and look at the quality of the opposition in some of those 10 defeats and the circumstances we were in some of those matches combined with early exits in both domestic cup competitions and you have to believe it is logical to ask questions over the ability of management to manage the team effectively and get the best out of the playing group.

It might change for the better after the window , it might not but every day decisions have to made in the best interests of the club and what is required to get the best results on matchday from the side we have to put on to the park.

Agree with you there in principle and i am willing to give Hughes time to do things his way. I agree some of his decisions or part of his Management style maybe at fault. But we have had this problem for a number of years.

It has taken Martin O'Neil 3 years to take Villa from Bottom Half upto where they are now. They were up shit creak when he took over. They have not bought world beaters, but have invested in solid Premiership players and blended them with youth.

I am sure when we were stuffing Villa 3:0, Villa fans were calling for O'Neills head. We need a bit of patience and should not be over reacting as some of our fans are doing, by continually undermining the manager and the team.

Get behind the team and show them your supprt. They are shit scared of making mistakes and being slated.

 

[1894]

This has been a thought-provoking thread, and I have mixed feelings myself - I wouldn't know where to start unravelling them.

Since the turn of the millenium, we've been in constant change. I've never known an era like it.

The business world handles 'change' in many ways, helping employees to grapple with the necessary step-changes in very short time-frames.

Not so with a football club it seems, where one poster made a telling comment about 'millionaire' players. Says it all to me.

Lucrative contracts, rain or shine, work or play - many players have financial stability that we fans can only dream about.

Managers come and go, however we're now in operating in another business culture altogether, where petro dollars are behind the club's 10 year project. Gone are the days of easy-going chairmen, lack-lustre performances, and take-the-money journeymen.

As much as I dislike the personna of the red manager at OT, he has a tried and trusted method of dealing with malcontents. Cue his pupil Mark Hughes, who seems to be following the same plan.

Don't know where this will all end, whether in tears of joy for winning something, or tears of sadness for winning nothing.

But we'll still be here 'cos this is our club whatever happens.............

That's all.

 

[Matty]

There are two things very, very wrong with City at the moment.

1 - The players. Some aren't good enough. Some are underperforming. Some aren't interested. There were some performances on Saturday that went beyond being 'off form' and ventured into 'couldnt be arsed'. Elano, we were chasing the game in the second half, and he didn't break sweat. Hamann, came on (why I don't know) and did nothing, apart from gift them a goal and walk about a bit. Jo, you'd think he'd be fighting for his spot, but there was little to suggest he cared. That isn't an exhaustive list, but it's a start. Certain players are good enough, and are trying. Ireland, SWP, Kompany spring to mind. Players like Fernandes and Vassell try their hearts out, but aren't good enough, it's that simple. Our squad needs a major overhaul, attitudes need to change and players need to be bought and sold.

2 - The manager. In the interests of full disclosure I'll come out and say it now, I didn't want Hughes as our manager. A (small) part of that was due to his 'history' with United, the bigger part however was down to the man as a manager. I was never convinced he was the right man for the job. He hadn't won anything as a manager, his track record was far from impressive (doing ok with a poor Welsh side and with a mediocre Blackburn team didn't set my pulse racing) and the style of football he played at Blackburn (combative football) didn't interest me in the slightest. He was simply not the man for the job, in my opinion. However, once he'd been hired there was little option than to hope for the best and support the man, which I did. The time for that support is gone. My original impression, and fears, were seemingly true. Hughes has been a failure thus far, there have been the odd good performance but on the whole we've been pretty dire. Poor football, lack of ideas, tactical mistakes, they've all been present. We were supposed to have 'more grit' under Hughes, where exactly is it? We're failing to step up on far too many occasions. Hughes has apparently 'lost the dressing room', some of the blame for that is down to the players, but the majority is on Hughes' shoulders. Top managers don't lose the dressing room. They control it, they manage people. Troublemakers are stamped on, players who need a an arm round them are given it, players who need discipline receive it. The man isn't up to the task, and the task itself has changed since his appointment. ADUG's aims are higher than Shinawatras, Thaksin had lofty ideas but never the ability to deliver in reality. ADUG can. Hughes was a Shinawatra/Cook man, not ADUGs. They may be sticking with him for now, but alarm bells surely must be ringing out in Abu Dhabi. My opinion is he has to go, although the Summer is the right time as his departure now, albeit cathartic, would ruin our January spending.

 

[AntonDonJuan]

There really is no point in getting rid of Hughes now. We may aswell keep him until the Summer, and then i really believe Jose will come in. If we do get rid of him, no good manager will come here knowing they will only be an interim. Well, maybe the Argie bloke that said we approached him.

Stick with Hughes until Summer. Our season is practically over now, and let's face it, we WON'T be going down

 

[Cheltblue]

There are two things very, very wrong with City at the moment.

1 - The players. Some aren't good enough. Some are underperforming. Some aren't interested. There were some performances on Saturday that went beyond being 'off form' and ventured into 'couldnt be arsed'. Elano, we were chasing the game in the second half, and he didn't break sweat. Hamann, came on (why I don't know) and did nothing, apart from gift them a goal and walk about a bit. Jo, you'd think he'd be fighting for his spot, but there was little to suggest he cared. That isn't an exhaustive list, but it's a start. Certain players are good enough, and are trying. Ireland, SWP, Kompany spring to mind. Players like Fernandes and Vassell try their hearts out, but aren't good enough, it's that simple. Our squad needs a major overhaul, attitudes need to change and players need to be bought and sold.

2 - The manager. In the interests of full disclosure I'll come out and say it now, I didn't want Hughes as our manager. A (small) part of that was due to his 'history' with United, the bigger part however was down to the man as a manager. I was never convinced he was the right man for the job. He hadn't won anything as a manager, his track record was far from impressive (doing ok with a poor Welsh side and with a mediocre Blackburn team didn't set my pulse racing) and the style of football he played at Blackburn (combative football) didn't interest me in the slightest. He was simply not the man for the job, in my opinion. However, once he'd been hired there was little option than to hope for the best and support the man, which I did. The time for that support is gone. My original impression, and fears, were seemingly true. Hughes has been a failure thus far, there have been the odd good performance but on the whole we've been pretty dire. Poor football, lack of ideas, tactical mistakes, they've all been present. We were supposed to have 'more grit' under Hughes, where exactly is it? We're failing to step up on far too many occasions. Hughes has apparently 'lost the dressing room', some of the blame for that is down to the players, but the majority is on Hughes' shoulders. Top managers don't lose the dressing room. They control it, they manage people. Troublemakers are stamped on, players who need a an arm round them are given it, players who need discipline receive it. The man isn't up to the task, and the task itself has changed since his appointment. ADUG's aims are higher than Shinawatras, Thaksin had lofty ideas but never the ability to deliver in reality. ADUG can. Hughes was a Shinawatra/Cook man, not ADUGs. They may be sticking with him for now, but alarm bells surely must be ringing out in Abu Dhabi. My opinion is he has to go, although the Summer is the right time as his departure now, albeit cathartic, would ruin our January spending.

Tremendous post sir.

 

[Anonymous]

There really is no point in getting rid of Hughes now. We may aswell keep him until the Summer, and then i really believe Jose will come in. If we do get rid of him, no good manager will come here knowing they will only be an interim. Well, maybe the Argie bloke that said we approached him.

Stick with Hughes until Summer. Our season is practically over now, and let's face it, we WON'T be going down

Our season is practically OVER? This is EXACTLY the attitude we DON'T want...Jesus man...are you smoking fucking crack...(no offence like...) but:

We're into the knockout stages of the UEFA Cup...yes, a European cup...

We are ten points off 6th place which would mean qualifying for Europe again next season...

How the FUCK can you suggest our season is over...some would suggest that with the influx of new players...our season is actually just about to begin...imagine a complete reversal of last season...poor start...blinding finish...

 

[Bigga]

Ooo! I have a question!!

What happens if the buys that Hughes makes don't improve the team? What happens if they turn out to have the same effect, as in the odd lapse in concentration, misplaced passes leading to goals, bad positioning, not quick enough to cover the counter attacks...

What if Hughes says he's disappointed in the team, they're difficullt to work with after a couple of months? Do we assume the rest of team needs replacing? Or that Hughes, himself, needs replacing?

I was told 'a bad workman blames his tools' and 'if you're stuck with lemons, make lemonade'. Sayings designed to look at the inner workings of how you do things.

He's not exactly the best tactian, so when will pro- Hughes fans see this fact?

 

[AntonDonJuan]

There really is no point in getting rid of Hughes now. We may aswell keep him until the Summer, and then i really believe Jose will come in. If we do get rid of him, no good manager will come here knowing they will only be an interim. Well, maybe the Argie bloke that said we approached him.

Stick with Hughes until Summer. Our season is practically over now, and let's face it, we WON'T be going down

Our season is practically OVER? This is EXACTLY the attitude we DON'T want...Jesus man...are you smoking fucking crack...(no offence like...) but:

We're into the knockout stages of the UEFA Cup...yes, a European cup...

We are ten points off 6th place which would mean qualifying for Europe again next season...

How the FUCK can you suggest our season is over...some would suggest that with the influx of new players...our season is actually just about to begin...imagine a complete reversal of last season...poor start...blinding finish...

Haha i didn't really think before i posted that last bit. Ok, i agree. With some good players we can push on and finish UEFA but i doubt it will happen. Daft comment from myself.

Anyway, i still think we should stick with him until Summer and then get Jose in, let him decide his own salary, give him a blank chequebook and let him turn us into winners

 

[Anonymous]

Ooo! I have a question!!

What happens if the buys that Hughes makes don't improve the team? What happens if they turn out to have the same effect, as in the odd lapse in concentration, misplaced passes leading to goals, bad positioning, not quick enough to cover the counter attacks...

What if Hughes says he's disappointed in the team, they're difficullt to work with after a couple of months? Do we assume the rest of team needs replacing? Or that Hughes, himself, needs replacing?

I was told 'a bad workman blames his tools' and 'if you're stuck with lemons, make lemonade'. Sayings designed to look at the inner workings of how you do things.

He's not exactly the best tactian, so when will pro- Hughes fans see this fact?

Here's one for you, you patronizing tit...

Maybe if the anti-Hughes brigade actually READ what the so called "pro Hughes" brigade post, they would be better placed to start discussions on this board...

Nowhere, and I mean nowhere, have I said that Hughes is tactically a genius...I have however, read you eulogizing about Saint Sven's tactical nous in recent months. Even thought the fucker couldn't win a match for love nor money for the last five months of his tenure...

So, back to your question. Lets wait and see. And if he fucks up in the manner in which Saint Sven did...(ooh, please don't bore me with the excuses...I've heard them all a million times) then I expect he will be sacked in the summer.

I won't cry for him just like I didn't cry for Sven.

 

[Balti]

Ooo! I have a question!!

What happens if the buys that Hughes makes don't improve the team? What happens if they turn out to have the same effect, as in the odd lapse in concentration, misplaced passes leading to goals, bad positioning, not quick enough to cover the counter attacks...

What if Hughes says he's disappointed in the team, they're difficullt to work with after a couple of months? Do we assume the rest of team needs replacing? Or that Hughes, himself, needs replacing?

I was told 'a bad workman blames his tools' and 'if you're stuck with lemons, make lemonade'. Sayings designed to look at the inner workings of how you do things.

He's not exactly the best tactian, so when will pro- Hughes fans see this fact?

If performances do not improve after the Jan window then there can be no more excuses.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

We are ten points off 6th place which would mean qualifying for Europe again next season...

That is a long, long way

As soon as we are knocked out of the UEFA our season is over.