Coronavirus (2021) thread

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Are you saying it's ~150 each:
(1) unvaccinnated all ages and
(2) vaccinated over over 50s?

If so it broadly makes sense to me:

- unvaccinated are obviously still susceptible, but their fatality rate is much lower as most are younger
- some vaccinated remain susceptible and the fatality rate for these older, frailer people means a proportion will still die.

But that's just hand waving as I've not read it.

Thanks - I am not great at reading graphs but they seem to predict in August a peak of around 250 or so for both categories.

By which point all the over 50s should have had two doses aside from those who refused.

I understand your point but if the efficacy against serious illness for the vaccinated is as claimed you would expect by that point the main driver of deaths to be those not vaccinated.

Unless you assume the unvaccinated ones are all of low risk that will skew that group to a minimum.

But the two studies differ in numbers and size so it is little more than educated guesswork I presume.
 
12 England hospital deaths - just 1 from the North West

Last week was 40 with 8 from North West.

But....this is not a normal Tuesday when weekend catch up would occur as this Monday was a bank holiday.

That catch up may come tomorrow this week so I would expect underscoring today.
 
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I understand your point but if the efficacy against serious illness for the vaccinated is as claimed

I'm not sure which claims you mean, but I would be cautious about those from clinical trials claiming 100% or similar efficacy. Whilst true for the trial, they are firstly based on extremely small numbers, often single figures, of severe cases, relatively recently from vaccination rather than many months later, and don't include many of the most vulnerable. So whilst very positive, perhaps a best case for real world efficacy against deaths.


But the two studies differ in numbers and size so it is little more than educated guesswork I presume

Yes, I think this kind of modelling is best seen as a range of potential future scenarios we should be prepared for, certainly not a prediction of an exact outcome.
 
Indeed. I think Boris’ exact words were “listen, this is still miles away this thing about Covid passports, we are still very early in the discussion phase”.

What everyone is going so overboard about it for is just fucking pure stupidity. It might not even happen, despite many people in the population thinking it’s a good idea even if the Govt just think it’s an idea that won’t even come into reality.

Sometimes I do think this flapping is purposeful by some. They know exactly what they’re fucking doing!

I think the main trouble with the passport concept is that he keeps mentioning them, often changing what they may entail, and then another minister pops up and says something slightly different. That makes it appear that this is far from early discussions.

I think what it needs is a flat rote statement about where they are on the subject, and have all the others stick to the damned thing. Gove is apparently in charge of it yet I haven't heard a word from him about it! He should be issuing the statement for others to refer to, preferably (IMO) clearly stating that it has to be debated in full in Parliament, and to update it weekly as a minimum.
 
England hospital deaths

Regions:

4 Midlands, 4 South East, 3 NE & Yorkshire, NW 1 and the other regions(East, London and South West) all zero.

Portsmouth with 2 is the only trust with more than 1. The NW death was in the Manchester Royal.
 
If there is a safe vaccine I agree 100%. If there is one that is mostly safe then it shouldn’t be given to people at practically no risk of covid.

Agree if the other ones are safe, just give that to the younger people. I won’t be letting my 5 year old daughter have it if there are any risks when she is at no risk of the virus.
Do you not consider the vaccines to be sufficiently safe?
 
They are reporting the data. No spin either way. They tend to keep hunches to themselves. In fact, at yesterdays press conference Prof Whitty stated that he was of the opinion, at the very start of the pandemic, that this would be, at least, a long term issue and that it may well never go away. This is not something he expressed publicly early in the pandemic.

RE Ferguson, he uses, and most likely, develops statistical models. Such models have to include certain assumptions/parameters. They are not necessarily going to be perfect but it will be indicative to the point it can be used to inform public policy making. He doesn't simply pluck figures out of the air. Are there any specific predictions he made that you think were nonsense? I think I remember him saying something like 250k may die without lockdown. Well, we locked down and c150k who have sadly passed away. Does that make it a poor prediction? I don't see anything to suggest it was wildly incorrect

The difference between Dr Campbell and Ferguson is that the latter mostly reports published research, adding commentary and further insight. He doesn't deliver the primary research himself or deliver any modelling, which is far more difficult.

As for him shagging around....hardly the basis on which to judge someone. In relation to his abilities, it's irrelevant.
Its more about credibility not ability. Fergusson lacks credibility the same way as Cummings did/does. You should practice what you preach.
 
If there is a safe vaccine I agree 100%. If there is one that is mostly safe then it shouldn’t be given to people at practically no risk of covid.

Agree if the other ones are safe, just give that to the younger people. I won’t be letting my 5 year old daughter have it if there are any risks when she is at no risk of the virus.

Define safe? Nothing is 100% side effect free for all. even just taking a paracetamol can have serious effects for some.
 
Its more about credibility not ability. Fergusson lacks credibility the same way as Cummings did/does. You should practice what you preach.

It doesn't affect his credibility at all. He broke lockdown rules, but by doing so doesn't render his modelling any less accurate. The two factors are not connected in the same way a government advisor responsible for telling people how we should all behave not doing so himself.

Only one of these actions has a direct impact on the suitability to carry out the role which that person was initially doing.
 
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