Coronavirus (2021) thread

[metalblue]

It shouldn't be any real surprise really, the odds of you catching COVID in public are extremely small. Add in masks and the risk reduces, add in social distancing and it reduces pretty much to irrelevant levels (think 1 in tens of thousands). It's why the ping test and trace thing is just a complete waste of time.

I'd love to know the positive hit rate between someone who gets pinged and then later goes to test positive themselves. I bet it's lower than 5% (it must be given the huge difference between daily pings and daily cases), and then a massive proportion will be people in the same house or pinged due to being at their mates etc.

If anything most studies seem to point out that we shouldn't need social distancing or masks in public, especially outdoors which is nonsense. If we follow the evidence alone then the only place that we should be wearing masks and social distancing is when we visit other peoples homes but guess what that has never been a rule.

You don’t think that the fire wall self isolation creates is actually doing the job it’s designed for? You know keeping the R rate down so the thing you say in your first paragraph about chances of catching it remain as low as possible.

As for the odds being “extremely small” I think you’re being a little disingenuous there. The odds of winning the lottery are what most people would call “extremely small”.

 

[west didsblue]

AZ aren’t making a profit out of it remember. The other firms are, and have enormous lobbying power.

And I’d say in a cloud of brexit the French and Germans in terms of political optics have a lot to gain by downplaying the success of a British designed vaccine.

I’m a staunch remainer btw.

Any political shenanigans are more likely related to the supply issues I would say. When they couldn't get what they ordered there was a bit of petulance.

Which makes you laugh at how the rare AZ clotting episodes were significant news for months but have we read as much about Pfizer or Moderna heart inflammation?

From what I can gather the very rare AZ clotting incidents resulted in 20% fatalities of the small number that got it, whereas those that got the Pfizer/Moderna heart inflammation all recovered with the exception of a few very old people. The incidence was similar though at about 1 in 150,000. Agree the coverage was overblown but it was much earlier in the vaccine rollout when people were more nervous about it hence the focus. It certainly didn't help.

 

[Del_Bosque]

And UK scientists who recommended under forties be offered an alternative to the AZ vaccine. The ‘EU scientists’, ie the EMA, imposed no such caveats. And they say irony is dead.

Under 40s to be offered alternative to AZ vaccine

Link to rare blood clots leads to shift in vaccination programme for younger age groups.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not to mention the US which has still not authorised the use of AZ.

That said, the handling of the AZ vaccine has been a tragedy. Starting with AZ and the way it conducted the trials and the data, then agreeing to the UK demand for priority (contrary to Johnson’s commitment not to do this) which left the EU procurement in a temporary bind and in turn led to European leaders, ie Macron, putting the boot in and the EU effectively shutting AZ out going forward.

The AZ vaccine could have been the one leading the way. Instead short sighted leadership at company level and at national level (UK, France, US) led it down a cul-de-sac. For those behind the vaccine it must make them weep.

German officials leaked to Der Spiegel that if didn’t work ahead of ema licensing

The French president called it Quasi ineffective

It’s a scandal and completely political.

 

[Healdplace]

There was a big discussion in here at the time about AZ and what happened. And we all saw coming what did come.

I do believe there was commercial opportunism seized by the US drug companies for which this was an opportunity to dominate for years to come. So in that respect - given the ethos of business and money and the best is best by earning the most - it was not a shock,

However, you have to temper that with the reality that the US vaccines were new high tech and nobody knew if they would work or not and the AZ path was a little safer. And done so it could be used everywhere which it knew was the real need as getting countries like the US and UK vaccinated was a doddle compared with the majority of the world. One benefit of the British 'empire' as was that the US never had is that it creates a global sense of awareness the US has not had need to develop as it is built on independence FROM that empire and going its own way.

Too little thought was given to this by those who dissed one vaccine over another as this was a global effort and a global fight not a parochial my country's vaccine is better than yours and we are saving our people faster than yours.

That means diddly squat if half the world is at the mercy of one tough to use vaccine that might make billions whilst millions die.

This use of an mrna vaccine as a booster if you had one of the other kind is just prudence in the face of new variants that the new tech has proved better at combatting which we only know from experience.

What I have said before in here and is urgent is that there should be a global agreement with ALL the drug manufacturers involved to pool their knowledge and expertise and facilities and production and create a GLOBAL effort to fight together this virus and plan for the next one too.

Nobody will win a vaccine war. But the world can very easily lose one.

 

[grunge]

"Says company that runs the trains"

Has to be said this is exactly what I thought.

 

[lancs blue]

"Says company that runs the trains"

Imperial College are running the trains?

 

[BerkshireBlue]

Imperial College are running the trains?

If you read the article you'll have read that Imperial just examined the results and they didn't conduct the tests

 

[jazzy]

Went for hearing test today , wore a mask out of respect for those working in boots/ retail

 

[lancs blue]

If you read the article you'll have read that Imperial just examined the results and they didn't conduct the tests

I did read the article, it's the Imperial researchers who "found no coronavirus contamination", implying they did the analysis, how else could they make that deduction?

Imperial College London researchers examined the results of the tests - which took place in January and June - and found no coronavirus contamination of any surface or airborne virus particles.

 

[BobKowalski]

German officials leaked to Der Spiegel that if didn’t work ahead of ema licensing

The French president called it Quasi ineffective

It’s a scandal and completely political.

German officials did. Macron gave it a kicking. The EU via the EMA did none of those things. The UK agency also imposed caveats on the AZ vaccine. The EMA did not. The US has refused to give the AZ vaccine authorisation.

Is it a scandal? Yes, especially the US decision. Is it a scandal of AZ and the UK’s making with its loud attempts to link AZ vaccine with Brexit? To a large extent, yes. The Brexit claim, the unbalanced contracts which went against UK’s previous commitments, and AZ’s trial data and production difficulties invited retaliation. Result? The unnecessary trashing of the AZ vaccine in part for political purposes. But if the UK hadn’t trumpeted it for political purposes to begin with and worked with Europe, then maybe a lot of this could have been avoided.

We keep picking fights we can’t win. It’s fucking dumb.

Right now, the EU is happily pointing out that the EU has a higher vaccination rate than the US. Countries like Ireland, Belgium, Spain have caught up and jumped ahead of the UK. Others will as well. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is lagging behind and that is the real scandal making all this faux boasting between the richer countries somewhat depressing, if predictable.