Coronavirus (2021) thread

[marco]

Vaccinated people are in hospital and dying too by the way.

Let me ask you a simple question, do you think it right to force people to take an experimental vaccine? I'll add again, that I've had 2 jabs, so far, but I find it totally unacceptable to force anyone to take it.

if the argument is about treating the non vaccinated and having them clog the NHS then 'and it dosnt sound good' is no vaccine no priority, vaccinated people will be treated first, anti smokers have been saying for years that the NHS should not finance illness due to smoking, other than that to force vaccine on someone while there is no recall in the courts should they develope illness in the future because we dont know enough about any possible long term future affects is unaceptable

 

[crooky]

Rotterdam police clash with rioters as Covid protest turns violent

Seven people are injured in Rotterdam as protests against new coronavirus curbs turn violent.

www.bbc.com

Rotterdam riots: Injuries and arrests during 'orgy of violence' at COVID-19 protest that saw police open fire

Hundreds of demonstrators torched cars, set off fireworks and threw rocks at police, forcing officers - fearing for their lives - to respond with "direct shots" and water cannon.

news.sky.com

2 wounded after shots fired at Covid protest in Netherlands

At least two people were wounded by police gunfire in the Dutch city of Rotterdam after a protest over renewed Covid-19 restrictions spiraled into a violent riot, seeing demonstrators torch a squad car and clash with officers.

www.rt.com

Dutch police open fire at COVID protests amid ‘orgy of violence’

Dozens arrested and seven injured after protests against partial lockdown turn violent.

www.aljazeera.com

They were starting to filter through just before I went to bed last night.

Sorry I didn't make it clear but at the time I meant nothing was showing on their TV channels.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Christmas boost as Sage predicts fall in Covid hospitalisations and deaths

Models indicate that hospitalisations in England will drop to around 500 a day by early December, while deaths will dip below 100

www.telegraph.co.uk

Sage reckon average hospitalisons will fall to less than 500 day during December and and average deaths below 100.
I would say great news but Sage modelling has never been anywhere near correct.
They might under cook the pudding this time.
So who knows.

 

[paulchapo]

The bold section is incorrect. Vaccinated people catch and spread COVID, yes, but at a much lower rate than unvaccinated people.

unvaccinated people are also disproportionately ending up in hospital and causing a huge, unnecessary strain on the NHS.

Do we though? Does anyone know this for certain?

That could be true or like my sister and her husband who caught it prior to being vaccinated they could just feel like they had the flu for a week or so.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Do we though? Does anyone know this for certain?

Yes.

Here's the figures, from PHE, of effectiveness vs hospitalisation for delta.

You're far more likely to end up in hospital unvaxxed.

COVID-19 vaccine quarterly surveillance reports (September 2021 to November 2024)

Data on the real-world effectiveness and impact of the COVID-19 vaccines.

www.gov.uk

 

[hgblue]

The bold section is incorrect. Vaccinated people catch and spread COVID, yes, but at a much lower rate than unvaccinated people.

unvaccinated people are also disproportionately ending up in hospital and causing a huge, unnecessary strain on the NHS.

Excellent UK peer reviewed survey on this carried out between September 2020 and September 2021 which followed around 600 primary sources of infection and regularly swabbed all their primary contacts. It found only a slightly higher rate of transmission to those who were unvaccinated (38%) compared to those who were vaccinated (25%). Some of this data was gathered before Delta so the difference is likely to be even smaller now. Also, study after study has now found an equal viral load between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Might explain why there are major outbreaks at the moment in highly vaccinated communities, for example Waterford in Ireland 99.7% vaccinated has one of the highest rates of new covid cases in the world 1,486 per 100,000. So very little scientific justification for the vilification of and discrimination against the unvaccinated, and these policies are causing significant distrust, unrest and division, which is why I'm strongly opposed to all mandates and coercive measures. Make the argument for vaccination by all means but don't divide us by setting one section of the community against another.

 

[daveiw01]

This is from a news source in Holland:

The chance that a fully vaccinated person with the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 will be admitted to hospital is 17 times lower than for a non-vaccinated person. The chance of ICU admission for a fully vaccinated person is 33 times lower.

Personally I agree with the vaccine being mandatory for those who are able to have it.

..and if we learn, in the future, that the vaccine has unforseen long term complications and morbidities, how would you feel then, about forcing people to take the experimental vaccine?

Clearly I'm not comparing like for like, and it's an unfair comparison, but as an extreme, do you recall a drug named Thalidomide?

Forcing someone to take any treatment against their will, is a very very slippery slope.

 

[daveiw01]

Excellent UK peer reviewed survey on this carried out between September 2020 and September 2021 which followed around 600 primary sources of infection and regularly swabbed all their primary contacts. It found only a slightly higher rate of transmission to those who were unvaccinated (38%) compared to those who were vaccinated (25%). Some of this data was gathered before Delta so the difference is likely to be even smaller now. Also, study after study has now found an equal viral load between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Might explain why there are major outbreaks at the moment in highly vaccinated communities, for example Waterford in Ireland 99.7% vaccinated has one of the highest rates of new covid cases in the world 1,486 per 100,000. So very little scientific justification for the vilification of and discrimination against the unvaccinated, and these policies are causing significant distrust, unrest and division, which is why I'm strongly opposed to all mandates and coercive measures. Make the argument for vaccination by all means but don't divide us by setting one section of the community against another.

Every time I read something like this, it makes me question the logic even more. A lot of what is going on does not make sense, by any metric.

I'm going to have my booster, but something about all this is very off.

 

[M18CTID]

Excellent UK peer reviewed survey on this carried out between September 2020 and September 2021 which followed around 600 primary sources of infection and regularly swabbed all their primary contacts. It found only a slightly higher rate of transmission to those who were unvaccinated (38%) compared to those who were vaccinated (25%). Some of this data was gathered before Delta so the difference is likely to be even smaller now. Also, study after study has now found an equal viral load between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Might explain why there are major outbreaks at the moment in highly vaccinated communities, for example Waterford in Ireland 99.7% vaccinated has one of the highest rates of new covid cases in the world 1,486 per 100,000. So very little scientific justification for the vilification of and discrimination against the unvaccinated, and these policies are causing significant distrust, unrest and division, which is why I'm strongly opposed to all mandates and coercive measures. Make the argument for vaccination by all means but don't divide us by setting one section of the community against another.

I’d be astonished if 99.7% have been vaccinated in any town or city on the planet. For a start, under-12s aren’t being jabbed in Ireland as far as I know but even if they were there would be plenty of parents not getting their kids jabbed. Even if the figure is 99.7% of all adults, I’m calling bollocks on that too. Factor in those who can’t have it for medical reasons, the anti-vaxx mob who populate every town and city, and those who simply can’t be arsed, then are you sure it’s 99.7%? The UK has had a relatively high vaccine uptake amongst adults compared to a lot of other countries but even then, it’s around 90%. I would imagine Ireland will be similar but 99.7% in Waterford? Come off it ffs!

 

[PragueBlue]

Forcing someone to take any treatment against their will, is a very very slippery slope.

So is allowing the voluntary unvaccinated to fill up the hospital beds and take resources away from others. It's a difficult situation but in this particular case I'd be tempted to follow Austria's route.