Coronavirus (2021) thread

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give it to gordon said:
Do we think it will happen in the uk again ?

I sincerely hope we have cracked this virus with the jabs we are having. But are we relying on the jabs to much ?

Things to me look very similar to the last time we came out of lockdown. Some school around here have already sent some groups home to self isolate.
Every day I drive pass around 200 kids they walk from the train station to the school in one basically large group. Most without mask , no social distancing they stand out side school in groups again no masks or social distancing.
I would have thought perhaps the teachers would be outside stopping these groups but no.

Now if this was a group of adults doing this the police would be stopping it , so why arent the school kids stopped ? Do school tell them to social distancing when coming to school ?

I do get abit nervous when I see these large groups of kids every day ignoring government guidelines and nothing is done to stop them.
Like lots of people our lives have been on hold for over a year now, cant see our family, friends etc. And than I see 100's of kids ignoring government guidelines.
I am tired and want to get back to normal.

This is what happened last time the kids went back ignoring all the government guidelines and we ended up in lockdown again

Are we putting to much faith in the jabs to early ?
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We have been educated over the last year to fear the virus and moving on from that is perhaps the big problem that we will have going into late summer and beyond. The clinical data available on the jabs is extremely positive, the scope and depth is far beyond anything ever seen for any vaccine ever developed.

We have spent a year now being conditioned to fear this virus, we fear cases and we fear other people so it will take time to get out of that. The vaccine doesn't eliminate or kill the virus but rather it neutralises it's ability to harm you and so we have to learn to live with it.

A great outcome really will be that COVID becomes equivalent to the common cold, we won't measure cases but we'll acknowledge that an infection might make us feel a bit naff for a week or two. So far the trials data suggests it'll be even better than that but we'll have to see where it goes.

Once we are vaccinated we need to return to normality and stop fearing this virus. It will not be able to harm us anymore and we must then focus on other health problems which can do us harm which have dropped away due to the pandemic, such as our mental health and personal fitness etc.
 
I don't think it's political in the sense of they're doing it because it's British or to cover up their poor roll out etc

It's just typical European Intransigent precautionary bureaucratic bullcrap, they will be 100% aware it's going to tank confidence in the vaccine and cause more deaths but they don't care, it's just how they do things.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
For those who think this is some sort of political crusade against UK or AZ

News - The Paul-Ehrlich-Institut informs - Temporary Suspension of Vaccination with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca

After intensive consultations on the serious thrombotic events that have occurred in Germany and Europe, the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut recommends the temporary suspension of vaccinations with the COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca.
www.pei.de www.pei.de

Compared to the status on 11 March 2021, additional cases (as of Monday, 15 March 2021) have now been reported in Germany. Analysing the new data status, the experts of the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut now see a striking accumulation of a special form of very rare cerebral vein thrombosis
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I’d already read that report, however do you not think the wording “striking accumulation” is a tad too sensationalist?
 
Rammy Blue said:
I’d already read that report, however do you not think the wording “striking accumulation” is a tad too sensationalist?
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So far there have been less than 40 clotting events reported to AZ from across the UK and EU, it is absolutely sensationalism.

I'd suggest anyone worried about this don't go outside because the odds are 10x greater that you'll be struck by lightning compared to getting a blood clot from the vaccine.

Another question is the Pfizer vaccine has reported a similar number of events (funnily enough), why has it not been suspended?
 
inbetween said:
So far there have been less than 40 clotting events reported to AZ from across the UK and EU, it is absolutely sensationalism.

I'd suggest anyone worried about this don't go outside because the odds are 10x greater that you'll be struck by lightning compared to getting a blood clot from the vaccine.

Another question is the Pfizer vaccine has reported a similar number of events (funnily enough), why has it not been suspended?
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I'm not sure that your assertions are backed up by the reports the PEI refers to because I don't know what they are, and neither do you.

I agree with you that even if there is some causal connection, the overall risk still appears way too low to be a problem. As the EMA have said too.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
I'm not sure that your assertions are backed up by the reports the PEI refers to because I don't know what they are, and neither do you.

I agree with you that even if there is some causal connection, the overall risk still appears way too low to be a problem. As the EMA have said too.
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Indeed but it would seem bizarre for the manufacturer to pour cold water on similar reports given the manufacturer is duty bound to address them.

Update on the safety of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca

www.astrazeneca.com www.astrazeneca.com

Given the number of reporting clotting events and the fact that the number of events is less than those seen in the general population you could easily argue that the vaccine is just as effacious in preventing blood clots as it is in causing them..
 
inbetween said:
Given the number of reporting clotting events and the fact that the number of events is less than those seen in the general population you could easily argue that the vaccine is just as effacious in preventing blood clots as it is in causing them..
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Yes, I agree.

A summary here from the Graun on the position across Europe is helpful I think, and maybe gives an insight into why the response has been what it is.


The head of France’s vaccination programme, Alain Fischer, has said decisions by multiple EU countries to suspend inoculations with the AstraZeneca vaccine were due to the unusual nature of the side-effects reported rather than their number.

“There have been a number of alerts from several European countries over the past few days regarding somewhat atypical thrombosis anomalies which suggests an event could happen in which the vaccine might play a part,” Fischer told French radio.

“It is reasonable, when the alerts are clearly significant – more by their atypical nature than by their number, which remains very low in relation to the number of people vaccinated – for national health authorities to be cautious,” he said.

Fischer said some vaccinated people had developed thromboses “with coagulation anomalies we are not accustomed to seeing in ‘classic’ pulmonary embolisms – platelet anomalies, a type of coagulation called disseminated intravascular coagulation, that we usually see only associated with serious illnesses.”

In its statement advising the government to pause vaccinations, Germany’s Paul Ehrlich Institute said its experts had observed “a striking accumulation of a special form of very rare cerebral vein thrombosis … in connection with a deficiency of blood platelets and bleeding” following a small number of AstraZeneca vaccinations.

The head of the institute, Klaus Cichutek, told Die Welt on Tuesday that it had uncovered “one abnormality - namely six cases of sinus vein thrombosis in women between the ages of around 20 and 50 years, two of which tragically had a fatal outcome.”

Denmark and Norway last week reported incidents of bleeding, blood clots and a low count of blood platelets in several people who had received the AstraZeneca shot. Denmark’s national health agency said on Monday that “highly unusual” symptoms were seen in a 60-year-old recipient who died from a blood clot.

The agency said in a statement that the woman had “a low number of blood platelets and clots in small and large vessels, as well as bleeding”. Norway also spoke of “unusual symptoms” in three people under 50 being treated in hospital.

Two health workers in Norway, both aged under 50 and described as previously fit and healthy, have since died of brain haemorrhages, the national medicines agency said, adding that it could “neither confirm nor exclude that it has something to do with the vaccine”.
 
I think people need to recognise the nature of the blood clots reported, and not just the numbers, as it's all part of the picture. If the trend continued then those regulatory authorities could be accused of persisting when the data suggested it's appearance. This precautionary principle is just the same as the one that many lockdown rules were based on?

Edit: post above beat me to it
 
Thailand have resumed AZ vaccinations (after a brief pause) following the concerns expressed from some countries. The Thai PM even had it today. Hopefully that should boost confidence there as the AZ vaccine is probably around 80% of their vaccination strategy.

Probably helps that the Thai king owns most of the company producing the AZ vaccine there ;-)
 
shemnel said:
I think people need to recognise the nature of the blood clots reported, and not just the numbers, as it's all part of the picture. If the trend continued then those regulatory authorities could be accused of persisting when the data suggested it's appearance. This precautionary principle is just the same as the one that many lockdown rules were based on?

Edit: post above beat me to it
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Precautions are understandable until you remember that we are in a pandemic that is killing people and the vaccines are the only reliable defence from that. Italy is seeing the beginning of it's third wave right now. Over 25% of the UK population is vaccinated with very few similar events reported, there just is no justification for their decision.

We blamed Boris Johnson last year for being too slow but in Europe how many deaths will be caused by pausing this vaccine? I would bet my house that it's more than the number of deaths caused by the vaccines themselves.
 
Man_City_Loyal said:
rates are creeping up again around Manchester etc it seems
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Says who? Are these the 5 day old rates the media use or last nights as posted in here.

I post the totally up to date GM numbers every evening in here if you look back and a table of the score per 100,000 population (Pop Scores) watching them go up and down.

Manchester actually has its best numbers since midsummer last year right now and was not even the highest in Greater Manchester yesterday.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Yes, I agree.

A summary here from the Graun on the position across Europe is helpful I think, and maybe gives an insight into why the response has been what it is.


The head of France’s vaccination programme, Alain Fischer, has said decisions by multiple EU countries to suspend inoculations with the AstraZeneca vaccine were due to the unusual nature of the side-effects reported rather than their number.

“There have been a number of alerts from several European countries over the past few days regarding somewhat atypical thrombosis anomalies which suggests an event could happen in which the vaccine might play a part,” Fischer told French radio.

“It is reasonable, when the alerts are clearly significant – more by their atypical nature than by their number, which remains very low in relation to the number of people vaccinated – for national health authorities to be cautious,” he said.

Fischer said some vaccinated people had developed thromboses “with coagulation anomalies we are not accustomed to seeing in ‘classic’ pulmonary embolisms – platelet anomalies, a type of coagulation called disseminated intravascular coagulation, that we usually see only associated with serious illnesses.”

In its statement advising the government to pause vaccinations, Germany’s Paul Ehrlich Institute said its experts had observed “a striking accumulation of a special form of very rare cerebral vein thrombosis … in connection with a deficiency of blood platelets and bleeding” following a small number of AstraZeneca vaccinations.

The head of the institute, Klaus Cichutek, told Die Welt on Tuesday that it had uncovered “one abnormality - namely six cases of sinus vein thrombosis in women between the ages of around 20 and 50 years, two of which tragically had a fatal outcome.”

Denmark and Norway last week reported incidents of bleeding, blood clots and a low count of blood platelets in several people who had received the AstraZeneca shot. Denmark’s national health agency said on Monday that “highly unusual” symptoms were seen in a 60-year-old recipient who died from a blood clot.

The agency said in a statement that the woman had “a low number of blood platelets and clots in small and large vessels, as well as bleeding”. Norway also spoke of “unusual symptoms” in three people under 50 being treated in hospital.

Two health workers in Norway, both aged under 50 and described as previously fit and healthy, have since died of brain haemorrhages, the national medicines agency said, adding that it could “neither confirm nor exclude that it has something to do with the vaccine”.
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so not like full moons then.
 
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