Coronavirus (2021) thread

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salfordbluetrue said:
So how many died after taking the drug? healthy people should steer well away from taking drugs that the body will eventually if not already be immune,
The figures we need to know are how many people died in each age group, how many died from COVID alone and which primary/secondary ailments are more susceptible.
The probability that everyone has already had COVID twice is quite high, but the Chemical companies have invested and the Govenment sees the Vaccine as a money making scheme.
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The mind boggles
 
Thinking about those Israeli figures I wonder how much it has to do with those who are most vulnerable believing they are invulnerable after being vaccinated?

I know a few over 70 who had the vaccine and who almost immediately assumed (despite what I told them) they were now safe enough to risk doing things they have not for months. One went to a hairdresser in her home because she believed it was both allowed and now safe. She felt sorry for the young woman as her livelihood was at risk.

I do think a lot of this might happen with those who have faced the biggest restrictions and been in near lockdown for the past year not just every few months for a few weeks.

I have said before that there has been far too little targeted messaging aimed at the most vulnerable and I do think they need something to counter this likely sense that people see the jab as an instant ticket to freedom.

I would not be surprised if it turns out this is a big factor in some cases of infections post vaccinations. We ought to try to manage expectations here. The vaccine is a huge step forward. But if people think it is literally an instant invulnerability shield it could become a problem.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
No masks in Texas now? Alabama, tomorrow?

All those guns and BBQ must make them immune to the virus...

Thick as fuck and a tragedy waiting to happen.
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It was a brazen political move in a Republican state that wanted to stick it to the Democrats. I’m surprised they didn’t do it sooner truth be told.
 
Healdplace said:
Thinking about those Israeli figures I wonder how much it has to do with those who are most vulnerable believing they are invulnerable after being vaccinated?

I know a few over 70 who had the vaccine and who almost immediately assumed (despite what I told them) they were now safe enough to risk doing things they have not for months. One went to a hairdresser in her home because she believed it was both allowed and now safe. She felt sorry for the young woman as her livelihood was at risk.

I do think a lot of this might happen with those who have faced the biggest restrictions and been in near lockdown for the past year not just every few months for a few weeks.

I have said before that there has been far too little targeted messaging aimed at the most vulnerable and I do think they need something to counter this likely sense that people see the jab as an instant ticket to freedom.

I would not be surprised if it turns out this is a big factor in some cases of infections post vaccinations. We ought to try to manage expectations here. The vaccine is a huge step forward. But if people think it is literally an instant invulnerability shield it could become a problem.
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this is the problem with the have/have not culture we're creating. A fair portion, especially those who were already breaching restrictions, will take a vaccine to mean they can go back to normal, at the expense of everyone else. It's going to be a fairly traumatising time not being vaccinated yet with things opening up and people not respecting your vulnerability because they assume they're now invulnerable, let alone the discrimination of vaccine passports and the very subjective roll-out so far.

We're going to have a lot of problems going forward given the general attitude of the populace and the discriminatory society we're creating.
 
salfordbluetrue said:
So how many died after taking the drug? healthy people should steer well away from taking drugs that the body will eventually if not already be immune,
The figures we need to know are how many people died in each age group, how many died from COVID alone and which primary/secondary ailments are more susceptible.
The probability that everyone has already had COVID twice is quite high, but the Chemical companies have invested and the Govenment sees the Vaccine as a money making scheme.
Click to expand...

I bet you got a ZZ- in GCSE science.
 
salfordbluetrue said:
So how many died after taking the drug? healthy people should steer well away from taking drugs that the body will eventually if not already be immune,
The figures we need to know are how many people died in each age group, how many died from COVID alone and which primary/secondary ailments are more susceptible.
The probability that everyone has already had COVID twice is quite high, but the Chemical companies have invested and the Govenment sees the Vaccine as a money making scheme.
Click to expand...
The statistics from Covid tests and antibody trials suggest you are incorrect, these are not random small samples, they are in-depth and will be pretty much conclusive.
 
England hospital deaths by region:

45 Midlands, 30 North West, 27 East, 25 South East, 23 NE & Yorkshire, 22 London. 12 South West.

Highest is 13 in Leicester (see my earlier post on Pop Score and Leicester)

And 12 in Liverpool by far the most in NW and only one in double figures. Indeed Pennine Acute at 3 was next highest.

Liverpool has certainly paid a big price for being kept out of the higher tiers as several of us feared it was going to do in here pre Christmas

This shows even now the legacy of that foolhardy decision is lingering as it is not the first time these deaths have topped the NW numbers in the past two months.
 
salfordbluetrue said:
So how many died after taking the drug? healthy people should steer well away from taking drugs that the body will eventually if not already be immune,
The figures we need to know are how many people died in each age group, how many died from COVID alone and which primary/secondary ailments are more susceptible.
The probability that everyone has already had COVID twice is quite high, but the Chemical companies have invested and the Govenment sees the Vaccine as a money making scheme.
Click to expand...
There are many counter-arguments that can be made to your post. For example:

1 - You're suggesting the vaccine poses a risk to healthy individuals who are at very low risk of dying from COVID, we would also have to compare the health of people dying after the vaccination - is it only killing the incredibly vulnerable? If that's the case then someone like myself as a healthy individual has little to fear? This would essentially make your point redundant.

2 - The probability that 'everyone has already had COVID twice' is close to 0. There's no evidence to support this, and even if we'd all had it twice (which we haven't) then there's clearly an issue with subsequent contaminations that hopefully a vaccine can help us avoid.

3 - The vaccine rollout is literally costing our Government billions. We're also haemorrhaging money whilst the country stays in lockdown. There is no financial incentive, other than the re-start of the economy. Also, the majority of 'the chemical companies' investment was paid for by the UK government (in AstraZeneca's case anyway).

I think it's good for people to be sceptical and to question things. But at least base your arguments on solid facts rather than trying to spread fake news.
 
Northern Ireland data:

3 deaths - was 5 last week

163 cases - was 281 last week

9.8% positivity - was 14.3% last week

20 Care Home outbreaks - was 23 yesterday and 28 last week

7 day rolling cases total - 1305 - was 1419 yesterday and 1834 last week

257 Patients - down 50 on yesterday - was 341 last week

27 ventilated - down 2 on yesterday - was 32 last week

Another very impressive day here.
 
Healdplace said:
Thinking about those Israeli figures I wonder how much it has to do with those who are most vulnerable believing they are invulnerable after being vaccinated?

I know a few over 70 who had the vaccine and who almost immediately assumed (despite what I told them) they were now safe enough to risk doing things they have not for months. One went to a hairdresser in her home because she believed it was both allowed and now safe. She felt sorry for the young woman as her livelihood was at risk.

I do think a lot of this might happen with those who have faced the biggest restrictions and been in near lockdown for the past year not just every few months for a few weeks.

I have said before that there has been far too little targeted messaging aimed at the most vulnerable and I do think they need something to counter this likely sense that people see the jab as an instant ticket to freedom.

I would not be surprised if it turns out this is a big factor in some cases of infections post vaccinations. We ought to try to manage expectations here. The vaccine is a huge step forward. But if people think it is literally an instant invulnerability shield it could become a problem.
Click to expand...

I do wonder that too, but then again, things *SHOULD* be much safer for them to interact once fully vaccinated. I realise it's not 100% effective, so severe illness and deaths won't completely dissappear all of a sudden, but in principle surely letting their guard down a bit shouldn't present such a huge risk unless I'm mistaken?

Another factor could be that we've seen and are seeing issues here with different sectors of the community being less inclined to get vaccinated - im sure the figures were a lot lower for BAME communities and this needs addressed. In Israel, of course you have Arab sectors, Ultra orthodox sectors and such like - I wonder if the same applies in that perhaps some of the communities have saw less people respond to invite to get themselves vaccinated, and perhaps that's why numbers have bottomed out or slightly risen as unvaccinated in certain communities are still becoming seriously ill? It could all be a blip as Roubaix points out, but just thinking out loud.
 
So total deaths with out of hospital for England to add (much lower now than the 500 - 600 of a few weeks back added).

Total 227

Wk to wk:

1058 v 728 v 578 v 386 v 311 v 227
 
Re comments on Texas, Alabama removing restrictions, here's their current and recent death rates with a couple of major states for comparison.

UK peaked at 1.8 in Jan by this measure in January and us currently at 0.4 (same as NY) but falling fast.


Screenshot_20210304-144546_Chrome.jpg

The Alabama curve is horrific.

US politics seems like a death cult at times.
 
ayrshire_blue said:
I do wonder that too, but then again, things *SHOULD* be much safer for them to interact once fully vaccinated. I realise it's not 100% effective, so severe illness and deaths won't completely dissappear all of a sudden, but in principle surely letting their guard down a bit shouldn't present such a huge risk unless I'm mistaken?

Another factor could be that we've seen and are seeing issues here with different sectors of the community being less inclined to get vaccinated - im sure the figures were a lot lower for BAME communities and this needs addressed. In Israel, of course you have Arab sectors, Ultra orthodox sectors and such like - I wonder if the same applies in that perhaps some of the communities have saw less people respond to invite to get themselves vaccinated, and perhaps that's why numbers have bottomed out or slightly risen as unvaccinated in certain communities are still becoming seriously ill? It could all be a blip as Roubaix points out, but just thinking out loud.
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The ones I am talking about did this just days after the first dose. Not three weeks. Which is said to be when your immunity kicks in.

And yes I| suspect that the reluctance to face the truth about why vaccination is essential not optional if you are vulnerable as we have seen even in this thread all too often is going to be a problem that will result in needless illness and death from those who think conspiracy more credible than science.

Older folks can be more set in ways too and were not raised on vaccinations as a routine way of life as younger people will have been as we had very few options before the 1960s.
 
Healdplace said:
The ones I am talking about did this just days after the first dose. Not three weeks. Which is said to be when your immunity kicks in.

And yes I| suspect that the reluctance to face the truth about why vaccination is essential not optional if you are vulnerable as we have seen even in this thread all too often is going to be a problem that will result in needless illness and death from those who think conspiracy more credible than science.

Older folks can be more set in ways too and were not raised on vaccinations as a routine way of life as younger people will have been as we had very few options before the 1960s.
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Yeah, absolutely agree. I had misread your post to assume you were meaning fully vaccinated as in 2 doses. But yeah, taking such risks with only one dose and so soon afterwards is bound to have tragic repercussions and needs clear instruction and messaging to those who maybe don't quite understand.
 
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