Courtney Meppen Walter

[jimharri]

I couldn't cheer CPM if I saw him score the winner against United to send them down.

But I wouldn't be at the match anyway if I knew he was going to be picked for the team.


I hope the lad learns his lesson, comes out of prison and has a good life, but after those 2 deaths he'll never be a City hero of mine.

He's young enough to get over it , even if he's hardly likely to ever forget it .... one day he'll understand why it was madness to drive through the streets of Manchester as those speeds , something bad was always likely to happen , sooner or later .... but , however much he regrets it , he'll have to live with the memory of what he's done for the rest of his life , as will the grieving family who suffered the losses.

I doubt that his case will stop the many thousands of other young tearaways who , irresponsibly , drive through the streets at high speeds ... but if CMW has got any sense , he will learn a valuable lesson from this ..... his 'sentence' could have been so much worse , and , in earnest , should have been.

Agreed. He has gotten off extremely lightly. 16 months is a scandalously short sentence for that crime.

 

[coulsonblue]

presume hell go<br /><br />-- Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:52 am --<br /><br />

Perhaps you have misunderstood what I am saying? If the circumstances had been different, the car had not pulled out at that time, he had delayed his journey etc. etc. the deaths would not have occurred. As horrible and regretful these deaths are, they are a result of chance. What I am trying to convey is that anyone driving in this manner could cause an accident with the same result, so should that not be how this crime is judged?

If I shoot a gun at someone and miss it's still attempted murder, therefore I would be charged with attempted murder. If I drive my car at 58mph in a 30mph zone I get a fixed penalty and 3 points on my license unless I am involved in an accident of this nature.

I hope this makes sense as I am just trying to give a sense of perspective to the argument, hence my 'incidental' comment. These people were killed because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and as the result of CPM actions.

He is not alone in the stupidity of his behaviour and actions, but at the same time he should not be isolated as a result of them.

I am speaking as someone who has lost someone as a result of a car accident caused by someone else so I am not trying to make excuses or exonerating CMW actions. Its just my personal opinion - to which I am entitled.

except you will face two different charges and sentences depending on whether the bullet causes death

Except that's not true - the sentence could and is in most circumstances the same - murder or attempted murder would get you a life sentence.

It's discretionary, and the guidlines are such that if there is no physical or psychological harm you can get as little as 12 years.

 

[We're not really here]

I haven't read all 41 pages so sorry if this has been said. Football has a lot to answer for. How can an 18 year old be driving a high performance car? Why are the club paying his insurance? Should the wages of these kids be much smaller or put in trust until their ball have dropped enough to have a sense of responsibility?
As someone who signed apprentice terms 20 plus years ago I was paid fuck all (my mates doing plumbing etc were on more) spent most of my time cleaning boots, sweeping stands and mopping dressing rooms. They are put on a pedestal too young, given too much money and have no idea of the real world.
I have some sympathy for CMW he's a daft kid who has paid a price but this stupid game we love has gone mad in my opinion.

 

[Alex the Blue]

According to the M.E.N. the car was owned by his grandfather so I doubt that the club paid for the insurance. I can't see why the club should pay car insurance for any player.

On a seperate point some years ago I was pulling out of a side street as carefully as I could (or so I thought) cos of parked cars obstructing my view. I was hit by a car that I never saw coming and in my opinion must of been speeding cos it knocked me over to the other side of the road and completely wrote off my car. Luckily I only sustained minor injuries and my wife and baby son escaped un-scathed. I was prosecuted for careless driving. I'm making no comment on the CMW case, I'm just saying what happened in that situation.

 

[Centurions]

I haven't read all 41 pages so sorry if this has been said. Football has a lot to answer for. How can an 18 year old be driving a high performance car? Why are the club paying his insurance? Should the wages of these kids be much smaller or put in trust until their ball have dropped enough to have a sense of responsibility?
As someone who signed apprentice terms 20 plus years ago I was paid fuck all (my mates doing plumbing etc were on more) spent most of my time cleaning boots, sweeping stands and mopping dressing rooms. They are put on a pedestal too young, given too much money and have no idea of the real world.
I have some sympathy for CMW he's a daft kid who has paid a price but this stupid game we love has gone mad in my opinion.

It's got sod all to do with football, he's an 18 old with a car. There's not a car made any where in the world that can't do 60MPH in a 30 zone and potentially kill someone so the power of the car dose not matter. It's also immaterial if the club are paying his insurance or not and paying them less money wont stop them buying a £500 second hand Fiesta and doing the same.
I personally would raise the driving age limit to 21 to give them more time to mature before putting them behind the wheel of a loaded weapon.

 

[Anonymous]

Tragic waste of 3 lives. Heart goes out to the family who lost two of their loved ones.

 

[Vienna_70]

According to the M.E.N. the car was owned by his grandfather so I doubt that the club paid for the insurance. I can't see why the club should pay car insurance for any player.

On a seperate point some years ago I was pulling out of a side street as carefully as I could (or so I thought) cos of parked cars obstructing my view. I was hit by a car that I never saw coming and in my opinion must of been speeding cos it knocked me over to the other side of the road and completely wrote off my car. Luckily I only sustained minor injuries and my wife and baby son escaped un-scathed. I was prosecuted for careless driving. I'm making no comment on the CMW case, I'm just saying what happened in that situation.

A similar thing happened to my mum back in the 70s.

She was pulling out of a side street in our village, when a motorbike came racing through and hit her.

The pillion on the bike was in a coma for weeks, but did make a full recovery and my mum was prosecuted, though I can't remember what she was charged with.

It seemed wrong to me that my mum, who was being careful, was prosecuted, while the bike rider, who must have been going well over the 30mph limit, got off scot-free.

It still seems wrong, even after all these years.

 

[We're not really here]

I haven't read all 41 pages so sorry if this has been said. Football has a lot to answer for. How can an 18 year old be driving a high performance car? Why are the club paying his insurance? Should the wages of these kids be much smaller or put in trust until their ball have dropped enough to have a sense of responsibility?
As someone who signed apprentice terms 20 plus years ago I was paid fuck all (my mates doing plumbing etc were on more) spent most of my time cleaning boots, sweeping stands and mopping dressing rooms. They are put on a pedestal too young, given too much money and have no idea of the real world.
I have some sympathy for CMW he's a daft kid who has paid a price but this stupid game we love has gone mad in my opinion.

It's got sod all to do with football, he's an 18 old with a car. There's not a car made any where in the world that can't do 60MPH in a 30 zone and potentially kill someone so the power of the car dose not matter. It's also immaterial if the club are paying his insurance or not and paying them less money wont stop them buying a £500 second hand Fiesta and doing the same.
I personally would raise the driving age limit to 21 to give them more time to mature before putting them behind the wheel of a loaded weapon.

To be fair I agree with you especially with the aged 21 point but the fact is they are more likely to be stupid with a Merc than a Fiesta. I also believe that football has made them think they are more important than they actually are. 99% won't play top level when they reach 21 and most won't even be playing pro by then. They have too much too young and it needs addressing in my opinion.

 

[grim up north]

I haven't read all 41 pages so sorry if this has been said. Football has a lot to answer for. How can an 18 year old be driving a high performance car? Why are the club paying his insurance? Should the wages of these kids be much smaller or put in trust until their ball have dropped enough to have a sense of responsibility?
As someone who signed apprentice terms 20 plus years ago I was paid fuck all (my mates doing plumbing etc were on more) spent most of my time cleaning boots, sweeping stands and mopping dressing rooms. They are put on a pedestal too young, given too much money and have no idea of the real world.
I have some sympathy for CMW he's a daft kid who has paid a price but this stupid game we love has gone mad in my opinion.

It's got sod all to do with football, he's an 18 old with a car. There's not a car made any where in the world that can't do 60MPH in a 30 zone and potentially kill someone so the power of the car dose not matter. It's also immaterial if the club are paying his insurance or not and paying them less money wont stop them buying a £500 second hand Fiesta and doing the same.
I personally would raise the driving age limit to 21 to give them more time to mature before putting them behind the wheel of a loaded weapon.

To be fair I agree with you especially with the aged 21 point but the fact is they are more likely to be stupid with a Merc than a Fiesta. I also believe that football has made them think they are more important than they actually are. 99% won't play top level when they reach 21 and most won't even be playing pro by then. They have too much too young and it needs addressing in my opinion.

Why should the majority suffer because of a stupid act by the minority. I would suspect the majority of young drivers cause nobody any grief whatsoever. It does matter what kind of car you drive if you drive carelessly/dangerously somebody might get hurt. Why the fuck would you act more stupidly in a Merc than a Fiesta?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

He was travelling at excess speed. I drive faster than the spedd limit, as I'm sure most people do, but there's a diference between 40 in a 30 zone and 60 in a 30 zone, 60 is clearly far more dangerous as the reaction time is so much more reduced. If he'd hit them doing 40, it's possible they might not have died, I'm sure the impact was far greater due to the higher speed, so obviously he deserves to be punished for this.

However you also have to look at the drinving of the Micra. The car was hit as it emerged from a side street, AS IT EMERGED. This means that Meppen-Walter's car, even travelling at 60mph, can't have been too far away from the end of the street when the car decided to pull out. If he'd been doing 30mph the odds are he 'd have either still hit the Micra, or else he'd have had to slam on the brakes, and lean on his horn a great deal. In short, the Micra driver has hardly shown exceptional driving skills here, he's done what I'm sure we've all seen other drivers do, pull out when there's not been time or space to do so, and caused issues in the process.

So, yes Meppen-Walters needs to be punished, he was speeding, to excess, and that excessive speed has caused the crash to be far more serious than it would likely have been. However just because the Micra driver, and his passenger, were killed doesn't mean they were 100% absolved of any blame. What they did might not have been a criminal offence, but if the driver had paid more attention, and made a better decision with regards to pulling out in front of a moving vehicle, then this situation would have been prevented.

How do you know he wasn't edging out with a restricted view ?

Even in those circumstances the driver emerging from a side road will almost invariably be held liable. Sounds harsh I know but that's the way it is. And I know that because it happened to me when I worked for an insurance company, driving one of their cars. The weather was wet and there were cars parked on the main road. I inched out and a car coming down scraped the front bumper of my car. Despite the evidence that the guy had hit his brakes and skidded into me (which he probably wouldn't have done if he'd just carried on) the claims people at my company said it would be held to be 100% my fault.