COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[kaz7]

WHO says indications are getting it doesn't guarantee immunity going forward - herd immunity?

Prof whitty said yesterday that vaccinating everybody is true herd immunity,i heard a lot of scientist say they presumed immunity based on the other corona viruses but seems this one is not playing ball

 

[twosips]

Yep, we’re looking at an era of much shorter average life expectancy and higher death rates for the species in that case aren’t we?

Well there's also treatments. Just because we can't find a vaccine it doesn't mean we couldn't find a very effective treatment.

 

[SWP's back]

Yep, we’re looking at an era of much shorter average life expectancy and higher death rates for the species in that case aren’t we?

We would be but as I say, I’m not entirely sure I trust WHO on that.

I know one idea was that younger people could catch it again as their body may have dealt with it through other means (ie not producing CV19 specific antibodies) but older people that fought it off would produce them.

 

[SWP's back]

Prof whitty said yesterday that vaccinating everybody is true herd immunity,i heard a lot of scientist say they presumed immunity based on the other corona viruses but seems this one is not playing ball

That’s the thing, of having antibodies doesn’t stop you catching it again, then no vaccine would work either and herd immunity would never be achieved.

 

[kaz7]

If having antibodies doesn’t give anyone immunity, then there will never be a cure. So herd immunity won’t ever be achieved via vaccine or it “washing through” the population and it will become the new number one killer of people over the age of 60.

I’m still very circumspect on anything WHO says at the moment as they’ve not exact been clear or correct on everything thus far.

Prof whitty says if there is no immunity it makes finding a vaccine harder and if they get one it probably wouldn't be a one off like the measles and used on those at higher risk of death like the flu and pneumonia one now and healthcare workers

The immunity question is the same answer from every where pretty much

 

[chesterbells]

We would be but as I say, I’m not entirely sure I trust WHO on that.

I know one idea was that younger people could catch it again as their body may have dealt with it through other means (ie not producing CV19 specific antibodies) but older people that fought it off would produce them.

Yep, all a bit early for statements of certainty about this.

 

[SWP's back]

Prof whitty says if there is no immunity it makes finding a vaccine harder

No, it makes it impossible.

 

[kaz7]

That’s the thing, of having antibodies doesn’t stop you catching it again, then no vaccine would work either and herd immunity would never be achieved.

See my post above,the select committee was very good yesterday,it was very enlightening

 

[bluethrunthru]

Yep, we’re looking at an era of much shorter average life expectancy and higher death rates for the species in that case aren’t we?

There are a number of diseases we have no cure for some of which are killers. The common cold isn't a killer but there is no cure for it and we have learned to manage its effects. A.I.D.S. has not had a cure for it ( though there are some promising developments in recent months I have read ) but again it can be managed with drugs and - more importantly - the best way to not get it is to alter how you do things. In that instance its don't have sex or only have sex with people you know are clear or use a rubber. So we may have to alter the way we live with Cov-19 - social distancing - gloves and masks etc etc

 

[chesterbells]

Prof whitty says if there is no immunity it makes finding a vaccine harder and if they get one it probably wouldn't be a one off like the measles and used on those at higher risk of death like the flu and pneumonia one now and healthcare workers

The immunity question is the same answer from every where pretty much

It’s only an instinct but I think we might be looking at an annual jab like flu, rather than a long term one, and one which works, but doesn’t “work” 100% due to mutations and variations, a bit like the flu one, but like I say, guesswork at best.

Btw Karen, are we gonna get a Donnie show tonight or has he spat his dummy out again?

 

[BlueAnorak]

That is not immunity though is it ? I read that as just stopping them getting ill enough for life support ? There is no evidence you can't catch it again,prof whity was saying to the select committee that the cases of a second infection are concerning and there is nothing to say yet it is the same as other corona viruses,he also said in other corona viruses the immunity tends to wear off quite quickly,he doesn't think if we get a vaccine that it will be like the measles where you just have one injection to get life immunity.this part of the puzzle is nowhere near solved it seems

Au contraire. Antibodies = Immunity. They are one on the same. Plasma from survivor passes antibodies from survivor to the ill.

 

[twosips]

Au contraire. Antibodies = Immunity. They are one on the same. Plasma from survivor passes antibodies from survivor to the ill.

Do those antibodies hang around then? Or are they merely visited if passed over via plasma? If that makes sense.

 

[kaz7]

Well there's also treatments. Just because we can't find a vaccine it doesn't mean we couldn't find a very effective treatment.

This is important to remember,sorry to quote prof whitty but he was saying also that a treatment along the HIV lines would be possible and there is research going on into those drugs already

 

[SWP's back]

There are a number of diseases we have no cure for some of which are killers. The common cold isn't a killer but there is no cure for it and we have learned to manage its effects. A.I.D.S. has not had a cure for it ( though there are some promising developments in recent months I have read ) but again it can be managed with drugs and - more importantly - the best way to not get it is to alter how you do things. In that instance its don't have sex or only have sex with people you know are clear or use a rubber. So we may have to alter the way we live with Cov-19 - social distancing - gloves and masks etc etc

1) The common cold doesn’t kill people which is why no one’s ever bother with a cure.

2) Gloves are pointless.

3) You May be right that some sort of anti-retro viral ends up being needed to CV19.

 

[SWP's back]

Do those antibodies hang around then? Or are they merely visited if passed over via plasma? If that makes sense.

They hang around for donkeys years mate.

They only don’t work if the virus mutates so much that they don’t recognise it as being the same virus which is what WHO is suggesting may be the case. But so far the WHO are about 0 for 4 so I wouldn’t panic just yet.

 

[kaz7]

It’s only an instinct but I think we might be looking at an annual jab like flu, rather than a long term one, and one which works, but doesn’t “work” 100% due to mutations and variations, a bit like the flu one, but like I say, guesswork at best.

Btw Karen, are we gonna get a Donnie show tonight or has he spat his dummy out again?

Ha i don't know about the man child,i read he might stop doing them,he will probably sit in the back row shouting ventilators every five mins lol

 

[twosips]

They hang around for donkeys years mate.

They only don’t work if the virus mutates so much that they don’t recognise it as being the same virus which is what WHO is suggesting may be the case. But so far the WHO are about 0 for 4 so I wouldn’t panic just yet.

Lovely. Just wasnt sure it they would or not if they werent created by the host body they were put into.

 

[BlueAnorak]

If having antibodies doesn’t give anyone immunity, then there will never be a cure. So herd immunity won’t ever be achieved via vaccine or it “washing through” the population and it will become the new number one killer of people over the age of 60.

I’m still very circumspect on anything WHO says at the moment as they’ve not exact been clear or correct on everything thus far.

Totally agree. Most cases of the reinfection seem to be related to either:
- Very, very low levels of antibodies in the patient OR
- A false +ve test in the first place.

 

[domalino]

Do those antibodies hang around then? Or are they merely visited if passed over via plasma? If that makes sense.

They hang around for donkeys years mate.

They only don’t work if the virus mutates so much that they don’t recognise it as being the same virus which is what WHO is suggesting may be the case. But so far the WHO are about 0 for 4 so I wouldn’t panic just yet.

Passive immunity from transferred antibodies only lasts a few weeks or months. The most commonly studied form of this is antibodies passed to babies through plasma in womb or through breast milk. Generally it keeps you safe for 3 months.

Chickenpox is the example everyone is given, if your mum had chickenpox, the antibody is passed to you before birth and lasts <6 months. Measles immunity from the mother lasts just over a year, which is why the MMR jab is given at 1 year old - before that it's not necessary.

But if you're giving transfusions to people fighting covid, they will be producing their own antibodies as well, which will last much longer and the antibodies from the plasma transfusion are there to make sure you keep the virus under control while your body responds to the virus itself.

 

[BlueAnorak]

They hang around for donkeys years mate.

They only don’t work if the virus mutates so much that they don’t recognise it as being the same virus which is what WHO is suggesting may be the case. But so far the WHO are about 0 for 4 so I wouldn’t panic just yet.

Quite.
Just like Whitty and Vallence to be fair.