COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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this short article has some quite good comments below it, mentioning t-cells

" For the record, not a single vaccine has ever been approved based on a T-cell mediated immune readout, even when that is the mechanism by which the vaccine is known to work. Instead, people go out of their way to find vaccine generated antibodies against some part of the pathogen or its secreted products that happen to correlate well with the protective T cell response, but do not themselves play a major role in protection. "

" T-cells and Antibodies – it’s a perpetual question. There’s no question that (CD8+, MHC Class-I restricted) T-cells provide long-lasting (10s of years) protection against viral disease; EBV may be the classic example "

" Yes the cellular immune response could dominate but I don’t know of any viral disease that is so completely controlled by cellular immunity that people totally fail to make antibodies. The relative contribution of the two arms can be debated but cellular immunity to a respiratory virus in the complete absence of any humoral immunity? I can’t think of any examples. "

More on T Cells, Antibody Levels, and Our Ignorance

I wrote here about the reports of rather short antibody persistence in recovering coronavirus patients, and what's been coming out in the two weeks since then has only made this issue more important. In that post, I was emphasizing that although we can measure antibody levels, we don't know how well
blogs.sciencemag.org blogs.sciencemag.org
 
somapop said:
I'm always massively cautious of those reports that have infection rates that hover around 6% and I too feel that the T cell scenario isn't taken into account.
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From what I have read its not possible to take this into consideration in a test like this as its a live reaction. there are no tests that retroactively show that TCells have done there job.

I would guess there must be something that can be done, maybe testing for remnants of the RNA that has been killed in a certain way? but if there is the tech to do that. who knows. How long do those reminants last in the blood etc?
 
What is the interest in T cells? I've missed that.

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My guess would be that T cells are a lot harder to monitor/test.

Finding an antibody that binds/inactivates a part of a virus is relatively straightforward - antibodies are moderately simple and will have standard sequences. A vaccine will then be a 'dead' genetically engineered part of the virus to trigger those antibodies, and either the vaccine or antibody can be mass produced easily.

T cells are big and complex by comparison. I would expect there to be less T cells in the blood than antibodies, making them harder to measure, and not so obvious as to what they're doing. You'd need a lot of data to work out how to engineer a T cell, and they may not be administrable to everyone.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
What is the interest in T cells? I've missed that.

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My guess would be that T cells are a lot harder to monitor/test.

Finding an antibody that binds/inactivates a part of a virus is relatively straightforward - antibodies are moderately simple and will have standard sequences. A vaccine will then be a 'dead' genetically engineered part of the virus to trigger those antibodies, and either the vaccine or antibody can be mass produced easily.

T cells are big and complex by comparison. I would expect there to be less T cells in the blood than antibodies, making them harder to measure, and not so obvious as to what they're doing. You'd need a lot of data to work out how to engineer a T cell, and they may not be administrable to everyone.
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Nah mate it's just easier to believe in a "MSM" cover up.
 
shemnel said:
i have no medical background, but this is an antibody test on a large sample size (~100k) using finger prick tests, which have been assessed for accuracy in the 2nd link. To my knowledge this does not include T-cells, no. This is due to the time needed for T-cell test where as this focuses on creating a method that is quick, widespread and uses large amounts of data. The results do fall in line with other infection-fatality rates in Spain, Italy (slightly below) and Germany (more).

so yes, this reinforces antibody knowledge, not so much T-cell stuff.
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Thank you for the article and the summary mate. Very interesting, but yeah kind of falls in line with other recent seroprevalence studies. Any future possible studies on T cells as @grunge mentions could hold the key - that's if there is a way of measuring the data.
 
everythingchangesbutblue said:
Thing is with T Cells, at least to my mind wouldn't they produce antibodies that would then be detectable? is that the way it works? Has anybody read owt on this? I really want this T cell idea to be a thing, it would offer a way out even if there is no vaccine.
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I suspect it's a matter of the order to create things, and scale.

A viral vaccine makes red blood cells produce antibodies designed to bind/stop active virus particles. This potentially produces lots of antibodies to combat virus particles. {EDIT = I've garbled this,the red blood cells make more virus particles which provoke antibody production]

One T cell binds to one infected cell at a time. {EDIT = some T cells do this]
 
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MillionMilesAway said:
I suspect it's a matter of the order to create things, and scale.

A viral vaccine makes red blood cells produce antibodies designed to bind/stop active virus particles. This potentially produces lots of antibodies to combat virus particles.

One T cell binds to one infected cell at a time.
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Right, that's beyond me tbh. I was under the impression that T cells produced antibodies that bind to the virus before it reaches the cell because they latch on and block those hook things on the outside of the virus.
 
everythingchangesbutblue said:
Right, that's beyond me tbh. I was under the impression that T cells produced antibodies that bind to the virus before it reaches the cell because they latch on and block those hook things on the outside of the virus.
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There are several types of white blood cell.

I've muddled it a bit though, sorry - you're right, and I've garbled it (trying to do two things at once).

The vaccines enter the red cells and get duplicated. That forces more white cells to make antibodies, and then the killer T cells are a subset which attack the virus-impregnated cells.

EDIT - my understanding is that T cell vaccines are the killer cells, but that might be wrong.
 
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