COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[unicorn]

They changed the dosing strategy yesterday. There is currently one dosing strategy for both vaccines. We get two doses but instead of 21 days apart it's now up to 12 weeks apart.

I think the argument is to surge as much vaccine as possible into people whilst we're facing a spike.

It makes sense. You reach more people over a period of time but those at the top of the list wont get the maximum immunity until a little later yet they think it will be adequate to prevent serious illness.

Thanks a lot Marvin. It makes sense to optimise use of the vaccines we have but the concerns raised by Pfizer, as well as BMA, about reducing the efficacy of the vaccinations need to be addressed I feel.

 

[sky tot]

No of course you can't. But you can initiate a lockdown with strong leadership and say do things to deter people. Up the fines, fine everyone in a house who breaks the rules. This lack of leadership at the minute is akin to burying your head in the sand.

Oh what have you done

 

[kaz7]

Tributes have poured in for an "inspirational" secondary school teacher and beloved father-of-three who died of Covid just two days after Christmas.

Paul Hilditch, 55, had no underlying health conditions and it is unclear how he caught the virus before his death on Sunday.

'Brilliant' secondary school teacher dies of Covid just two days after Christmas

Pupils and parents were left in shock after dad-of-three Paul Hilditch, 55, died of the virus just days after Christmas despite being 'healthy' and 'always out on his bike'

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[City_Sean]

Oh what have you done

Been brutally honest and as someone who's seen coronavirus affect his family have strong views on what needs to be done now!

I genuinely only say this because people I know have suffered. I've been fortunate enough to not have it, but my mums side have.

 

[Ban-jani]

Oh, I agree. Boris and his merry team need winding in

They do but the only thing she can do is say “what the fuck are you doing?” In private.

So we’d never hear about it anyway and she may have already done that, who knows.

 

[Marvin]

It did, everyone up to 4th Jan will stay on track, those after will be delayed, the vaccine people have said there is enough immunity by 3 weeks from one dose, that the second can be delayed, so they can get more first doses to more people.

Sorry for duplicating your reply. I didn't see it.

 

[Ban-jani]

Tributes have poured in for an "inspirational" secondary school teacher and beloved father-of-three who died of Covid just two days after Christmas.

Paul Hilditch, 55, had no underlying health conditions and it is unclear how he caught the virus before his death on Sunday.

'Brilliant' secondary school teacher dies of Covid just two days after Christmas

Pupils and parents were left in shock after dad-of-three Paul Hilditch, 55, died of the virus just days after Christmas despite being 'healthy' and 'always out on his bike'

www.mirror.co.uk

RIP Paul.

 

[Blue and still suffering]

I agree, I imagine people were shocked when the first bombs of the second war fell in a City, but after a few months, and with many more bombs falling, people just got on with it without the shock any more.

Even the bombs may not have affected them that much, you have to remember that most of the people around in those days will have lived through WW1 and the Spannish flu pandemic not to mention diseases such as polio, measles and scarlet fever. Mortality will have been a greater part of every day life which would have led them to be more accepting of it.

 

[Healdplace]

Is one of the issues with this eking out of the vaccine to try to give some protection to more people also rather counter medical opinion on use of antibiotics.

These are not being used as much as they were without proven need because overusing them made the bug they fought have more chances to find ways to become immune by greater exposure to the counter measure and how to get around it.

Is there a risk maximising the number of people who see the vaccine without them having real protection might indeed only get mildly sick but also thereby give the virus a longer stay in the body of those it does this to -maximising the risk it will have more opportunity to find a way round the vaccine altogether?

I don't know the science so that might be gibberish.

But is there some kind of balance between immunising as many as possible and giving some immunity before that might happen anyway and speeding up the time before that might happen by many more opportunities to face the vaccine?

After all you save nothing if you then have to wait months for them to reprogram a vaccine that stops working.

 

[kaz7]

Important thread. Conclusion basically being "the UK government is running a real-time experiment on its population, let's hope it works".

As soon as the mutation was recognised as a big threat we were always going to have to think on our feet , if the scientist need to alter things then i trust them , they know what they are doing

 

[Claytop]

Important thread. Conclusion basically being "the UK government is running a real-time experiment on its population, let's hope it works".

As posted further up, in the Pfizer trials 80% were given vaccine upto 10 weeks after the first with the other 20% presumably even later.

So although it wasn’t given official approval for the 2nd dose to be up to 12 weeks after it clearly still works in providing immunity upto that timeframe.

Let’s not forget it’s the MHRA who approved this policy who are or should be completely independent. Van Tam was speaking about it yesterday too.

 

[kaz7]

Is one of the issues with this eking out of the vaccine to try to give some protection to more people also rather counter medical opinion on use of antibiotics.

These are not being used as much as they were without proven need because overusing them made the bug they fought have more chances to find ways to become immune by greater exposure to the counter measure and how to get around it.

Is there a risk maximising the number of people who see the vaccine without them having real protection might indeed only get mildly sick but also thereby give the virus a longer stay in the body of those it does this to -maximising the risk it will have more opportunity to find a way round the vaccine altogether?

I don't know the science so that might be gibberish.

But is there some kind of balance between immunising as many as possible and giving some immunity before that might happen anyway and speeding up the time before that might happen by many more opportunities to face the vaccine?

After all you save nothing if you then have to wait months for them to reprogram a vaccine that stops working.

Antibiotics are being handed out like sweets since it went to mostly phone consultations , same as the dentists , i have had nine or ten if you count the iv ones , since march , different ones mostly so shouldnt be a problem but the sooner we can go and see the gp the better

 

[Marvin]

Interesting blog here which covers the rapid evolution of viruses in immune compromised patients who receive convalescent plasma.

Stumbled across it on newsnow. You don't have to agree of course with his views on lockdowns but the bit about selection of mutations is interesting.

Matt Ridley blog

 

[Blue and still suffering]

Tributes have poured in for an "inspirational" secondary school teacher and beloved father-of-three who died of Covid just two days after Christmas.

Paul Hilditch, 55, had no underlying health conditions and it is unclear how he caught the virus before his death on Sunday.

'Brilliant' secondary school teacher dies of Covid just two days after Christmas

Pupils and parents were left in shock after dad-of-three Paul Hilditch, 55, died of the virus just days after Christmas despite being 'healthy' and 'always out on his bike'

www.mirror.co.uk

Unfortunately cases like this will always make the headlines as they are completely opposite of the demographic of the majority of the people who are succumbing to this disease.
However this why this disease is so cruel as it is so random in how if affects individuals.
A couple of other points concerning the media, the above should be pointed out to Julia Hartley Brewer to say that even the numbers below 60 without underlying conditions are small, every death is another one that could have been avoided if more action had been taken at the start of the pandemic.
The second is that they are going to start scaremongering with their headlines once the first person who has had the vaccine dies. It has already happened in America where on of the nurses caught Covid after receiving the vaccine. This sort of sensationalist reporting to gain clicks just provides more ammunition to the anti vaccers and is of no benefit to anyone. Rant over.

 

[Ban-jani]

Antibiotics are being handed out like sweets since it went to mostly phone consultations , same as the dentists , i have had nine or ten if you count the iv ones , since march , different ones mostly so shouldnt be a problem but the sooner we can go and see the gp the better

My Bulgarian colleague had both her parents in hospital with it, her father is a doctor.

She said months ago they were using antibiotics for every patient.

Interestingly, we are convinced my mum had Covid in December. She couldn’t breath, coughing, fever etc. never a day off sick in her life until then and she’s 49, very healthy, skies every year etc.

I got a phone call off my step dad saying it was worrying.

Doctor came out and said and I quote (well sort of from memory) “it seems like a chest infection that’s materialised into something much more severe”.

Gave her antibiotics and she recovered but it was a worry.

 

[Healdplace]

Antibiotics are being handed out like sweets since it went to mostly phone consultations , same as the dentists , i have had nine or ten if you count the iv ones , since march , different ones mostly so shouldnt be a problem but the sooner we can go and see the gp the better

Different experience here.

I lost a chipped part of a tooth during the lockdown and dentists were shut. It created a huge abscess that a week of pain killers was not curing. Several sleepless nights. My doctor point blank refused to issue any antibiotics and told me to go to hospital. I chose not to in the circumstances and balanced risk but that could have turned nasty and was a genuine need as I had not had any anti bios in years and it clearly was an infection.

But she explained to me why they no longer did this. So if some are doing this why not others?

 

[worsleyweb]

I am amazed 60,000 got it today. How many people are still coming into contact with others? Where and how are they getting it?

 

[twosips]

As posted further up, in the Pfizer trials 80% were given vaccine upto 10 weeks after the first with the other 20% presumably even later.

So although it wasn’t given official approval for the 2nd dose to be up to 12 weeks after it clearly still works in providing immunity upto that timeframe.

Let’s not forget it’s the MHRA who approved this policy who are or should be completely independent. Van Tam was speaking about it yesterday too.

Why have Pfizer distanced themselves from this then?

 

[squirtyflower]

Different experience here.

I lost a chipped part of a tooth during the lockdown and dentists were shut. It created a huge abscess that a week of pain killers was not curing. Several sleepless nights. My doctor point blank refused to issue any antibiotics and told me to go to hospital. I chose not to in the circumstances and balanced risk but that could have turned nasty and was a genuine need as I had not had any anti bios in years and it clearly was an infection.

But she explained to me why they no longer did this. So if some are doing this why not others?

Think your experience is closer to the experience most have suffered to be honest.
My last interaction with the doctor, by phone as he’s locked in his castle and pulled up the drawbridge, was for him to ask me ‘what do you think it is?’.
I may have degrees in science but not in medicine.

However our dentist has been brilliant, then again he left the NHS many moons ago.

 

[Healdplace]

I am amazed 60,000 got it today. How many people are still coming into contact with others? Where and how are they getting it?

The ones who tested positive probably caught it around Christmas Eve.