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George Hannah
Well-Known Member
bet he told Prestwich Blue about Vinny's indiscretionsBalti said:david conn on bollox, bullshit and baloney
yawn
this so called "human rights" discussion is getting shit and old anyone who travel the world and see the particularities from a country to another one knows how it works. im moroccan and since the guardian brigades likes to see the world from black or white side so there is no discussion
the sub asia labors who this guy is refering to no one is forcing them to work in UAE ! simple it is not perfect but far better than many countries
in the name of the HW guardian and their zealots are sad cause abu qatada is kicked out :)
only a dumb would think a country that has less than 60 years of existence would be perfect
and if i can add please don't bring any bullshit stories about politics into this section of sport im fed up with that :)
the sub asia labors who this guy is refering to no one is forcing them to work in UAE ! simple it is not perfect but far better than many countries
in the name of the HW guardian and their zealots are sad cause abu qatada is kicked out :)
only a dumb would think a country that has less than 60 years of existence would be perfect
and if i can add please don't bring any bullshit stories about politics into this section of sport im fed up with that :)
matty barton said:I'm uncomfortable with the type of foreign owners who have invaded the English game in particular, but also European clubs like PSG and Monaco.
None of them are good for football, and none of them are ethically clean. Whether its the alleged human rights abuses in middle Eastern countries , the alleged criminal activities carried out by owners from the former USSR or the exploitative greed of American owners. It all stinks to high heaven. So does the deeply ingrained corruption of FIFA, the business practices of major sponsors (my own small protest is refusing to buy Nike gear) and abominations like a winter World Cup in Qatar. It's all ugly.
By the same token so is everything else. I work in precious metals and Im aware of the human exploitation and environmental devastation that causes. Ditto for many other industries.
I grew up in an era when football was tarnished by poor facilities, violence and racism. People talked about the need to clean it up. Ironically, despite its ugly flaws, it was much cleaner than it is.
As a fan it's hard to walk away from something that is a major part of who you are and what your background is. That's what clubs are to most fans, so the only real option is to accept things we are powerless to change, but without closing our eyes to what has happened to our game.
As an Arsenal fan I openly admit that I would prefer Usmanov in control to the Yank Kroenke. Morally, I understand the alleged crimes of the former are probably greater than those of the latter, but if you have been put into a situation where you have to get in bed with a crook, you might as well go for the one who offers the most success.
The people who are responsible for this are those who prostituted English football to the world with the creation of the Premiership, and not the fans. The Germans have the right idea keeping certain elements out of their game. It might mean a few million less tv fans in Asia and smaller club budgets, but their game is pure in comparison to ours.
hey you are an arse supporter so go write that in arsenalmania
and for QATAR world cup like it or not at one moment one country from north africa or middle east has to get it and it happened than for 2022 only Qatar was intrested
Barcon
Well-Known Member
matty barton said:I'm uncomfortable with the type of foreign owners who have invaded the English game in particular, but also European clubs like PSG and Monaco.
None of them are good for football, and none of them are ethically clean. Whether its the alleged human rights abuses in middle Eastern countries , the alleged criminal activities carried out by owners from the former USSR or the exploitative greed of American owners. It all stinks to high heaven. So does the deeply ingrained corruption of FIFA, the business practices of major sponsors (my own small protest is refusing to buy Nike gear) and abominations like a winter World Cup in Qatar. It's all ugly.
By the same token so is everything else. I work in precious metals and Im aware of the human exploitation and environmental devastation that causes. Ditto for many other industries.
I grew up in an era when football was tarnished by poor facilities, violence and racism. People talked about the need to clean it up. Ironically, despite its ugly flaws, it was much cleaner than it is.
As a fan it's hard to walk away from something that is a major part of who you are and what your background is. That's what clubs are to most fans, so the only real option is to accept things we are powerless to change, but without closing our eyes to what has happened to our game.
As an Arsenal fan I openly admit that I would prefer Usmanov in control to the Yank Kroenke. Morally, I understand the alleged crimes of the former are probably greater than those of the latter, but if you have been put into a situation where you have to get in bed with a crook, you might as well go for the one who offers the most success.
The people who are responsible for this are those who prostituted English football to the world with the creation of the Premiership, and not the fans. The Germans have the right idea keeping certain elements out of their game. It might mean a few million less tv fans in Asia and smaller club budgets, but their game is pure in comparison to ours.
What a crock of fucking shit. Any other nationalities that shouldn't own a football club? Enjoy the limited time you will have on here.
yankcitizen76
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 16 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 1,954
Fellow members. I am having a real big problem with this issue. I love City but am not cool with the idea of the owners as human rights violators. I realize that the Sheik who owns us may not be directly involved, but he's still part of the ruling family. I've asked several family members of mine, and all they can say is, "how much is your morality worth?" Is it possible to support the team but dislike the owners. In their defense, they've put quite a bit of money behind the team and are directly related to our resurgence. But it is obvious they are using the team for good publicity. The same way they plan to use the New York City franchise.
Can someone put this issue in perspective for me?
Can someone put this issue in perspective for me?
yankcitizen76 said:Fellow members. I am having a real big problem with this issue. I love City but am not cool with the idea of the owners as human rights violators. I realize that the Sheik who owns us may not be directly involved, but he's still part of the ruling family. I've asked several family members of mine, and all they can say is, "how much is your morality worth?" Is it possible to support the team but dislike the owners. In their defense, they've put quite a bit of money behind the team and are directly related to our resurgence. But it is obvious they are using the team for good publicity. The same way they plan to use the New York City franchise.
Can someone put this issue in perspective for me?
Yes, football is played between two teams of eleven players, the aim of the game is to score more goals than your opponent. None of the participants on either team are suspected of human rights abuses.
The presumption of innocence, and guilt by association seem to be two human rights ignored by those concerned about human rights abuses.
ok my dear blues let me explain a few things here
first of all Please accept in advance my apologies for my very bad English but am gonna try my best to keep it as simple as possible.
second is about the Muslim brotherhood which those people arrested in the uae are part of it.
so to be clear the MB is a dark international underground organization has an active members in more then 80 countries
this organization is 80 years old in it was established by some one called Hassan Elbanna in Egypt
in front of the normal people they appear to be a good willing foundation concentrating in spearing the name of gad and helping the needy
but in reality they were gaining members to grant their loyalty for the organization to help them after to ensure their dream, which is establish their ( Khelafa)
which mean they want to roll all the Muslims countrys
this organization unfortunately has made a deal with the USA and the west to help them gain control of the Arab country's and in return the organization well grant Israel safety and also well control the radical Islamist because originally most of them where members of the MB and yes Osama Bin Laden was a former member of MB.
and then they started the (Arab spring) which some of you may heard about it and gained control of Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Morocco, and now they are trying to take over Bashar Alassad in Syria after they established (the Syrian free army) with out forgotten that they are already in control in Sudan, Turkey and parts of Somalia.
they are also behind the protest in Bahrain, Kuwait and Jordan also.
you see the problem withe the MB members Regardless of their loyalty for the organization is more important then the loyalty for their own country, is they think them self above any others human beings even above any normal Muslim as long as he is not a MB so he is a heretic
does the above ring a bell to you in Uk and remind you of some one with a small mustache ?
from all that you can have an idea about what happened in UAE. They activated their Cells here and Began to interact in social networks to attract followers and raise controversial issues to gain the public confidence first and then started to offend and blackmail the rulers by asking them to deliver part of the authority to them or at-least to financially assist the poor Arab countries governed by the Brotherhood so they can maintain their rule as long as possible specially given that those countries suffer from lack of resources.
those people are the worst pragmatists ever, to terminate any person against them accuse him of blasphemy and heresy
They are convinced that they speak in the name of God and no one else is authorized but them.
and as i said perversely that the MB is a multinational organization when a members of them are in struggle with their government they activate their media wing and start brutally attacking that government by focusing on the issue of human rights and fabricating stories about torture
and to be honest they are very good in that They even have Europeans employers in the field of public relations and also in the media
its enough to say that Al-Jazeera it self is belonging to them and even in the UK They have the influence and even i sometime stunned by how powerful it is specially when i read The Guardian and i keep wondering how came they mange to get inside this prestigious news paper?
one thing for sure, they have taken Joseph Goebbels advise as far as they can and by reading some of the comments here oh my dear they really Succeeded
gentleman, we are here in the UAE are Literally in war with the MB so pleas don't misjudge us after you have influenced by one of their tools in the world media ( The Guardian )
and if you still wondering how come they have this kind of influence be aware that Qatar is the biggest financier of the Muslims brotherhood because (unfortunately ) their blackmail on them has succeeded.
first of all Please accept in advance my apologies for my very bad English but am gonna try my best to keep it as simple as possible.
second is about the Muslim brotherhood which those people arrested in the uae are part of it.
so to be clear the MB is a dark international underground organization has an active members in more then 80 countries
this organization is 80 years old in it was established by some one called Hassan Elbanna in Egypt
in front of the normal people they appear to be a good willing foundation concentrating in spearing the name of gad and helping the needy
but in reality they were gaining members to grant their loyalty for the organization to help them after to ensure their dream, which is establish their ( Khelafa)
which mean they want to roll all the Muslims countrys
this organization unfortunately has made a deal with the USA and the west to help them gain control of the Arab country's and in return the organization well grant Israel safety and also well control the radical Islamist because originally most of them where members of the MB and yes Osama Bin Laden was a former member of MB.
and then they started the (Arab spring) which some of you may heard about it and gained control of Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Morocco, and now they are trying to take over Bashar Alassad in Syria after they established (the Syrian free army) with out forgotten that they are already in control in Sudan, Turkey and parts of Somalia.
they are also behind the protest in Bahrain, Kuwait and Jordan also.
you see the problem withe the MB members Regardless of their loyalty for the organization is more important then the loyalty for their own country, is they think them self above any others human beings even above any normal Muslim as long as he is not a MB so he is a heretic
does the above ring a bell to you in Uk and remind you of some one with a small mustache ?
from all that you can have an idea about what happened in UAE. They activated their Cells here and Began to interact in social networks to attract followers and raise controversial issues to gain the public confidence first and then started to offend and blackmail the rulers by asking them to deliver part of the authority to them or at-least to financially assist the poor Arab countries governed by the Brotherhood so they can maintain their rule as long as possible specially given that those countries suffer from lack of resources.
those people are the worst pragmatists ever, to terminate any person against them accuse him of blasphemy and heresy
They are convinced that they speak in the name of God and no one else is authorized but them.
and as i said perversely that the MB is a multinational organization when a members of them are in struggle with their government they activate their media wing and start brutally attacking that government by focusing on the issue of human rights and fabricating stories about torture
and to be honest they are very good in that They even have Europeans employers in the field of public relations and also in the media
its enough to say that Al-Jazeera it self is belonging to them and even in the UK They have the influence and even i sometime stunned by how powerful it is specially when i read The Guardian and i keep wondering how came they mange to get inside this prestigious news paper?
one thing for sure, they have taken Joseph Goebbels advise as far as they can and by reading some of the comments here oh my dear they really Succeeded
gentleman, we are here in the UAE are Literally in war with the MB so pleas don't misjudge us after you have influenced by one of their tools in the world media ( The Guardian )
and if you still wondering how come they have this kind of influence be aware that Qatar is the biggest financier of the Muslims brotherhood because (unfortunately ) their blackmail on them has succeeded.
As others have said, I'm not sure that I am comfortable with making sweeping judgements regarding the suitability of someone to run a football club based upon these allegations, as there are very few countries that can hold their heads high on such issues and, despite there being issues in UAE I don't see the country as anywhere near regimes that need totally castigating.
I also think that there is a bit of opportunism in making the name of City the story, again, as others have said.
However, if a high profile sporting institution is owned by someone who is part of the government or ruler of a country then scrutiny of goings on in that country has to be expected, even welcomed, as there are regimes out there who most certainly would not be suitable owners (and I do not mean Abu Dhabi).
For that reason, despite my reservations stated above, I don't really have an issue with the matters in the article being discussed. In fact, as PB has said, there may be more than meets the eye regarding the reasoning for the story. But that's just speculation.
If it is the case that certain abuses have occurred then it's good that it is written about. That's how things change and progress. Although I don't subscribe to the view that such incidents make a place some sort of totalitarian hellhole or people from there unsuitable owners. I don't particularly like looking at it this way but there are comparative issues in all countries that equal and surpass the matters written about in the article.
I think the thing that bothers me the most about this thread though is the strong attitude from many that such issues should either not be discussed or are totally irrelevant. If you are owned by someone with political power then you should welcome all such matters being discussed and transparency. To take the "who cares" or head in the sand attitude is to invite people who are far, far worse than our owners to take control of clubs and significantly tarnish them in the future.
These things should be discussed and written about. Perhaps in a different style. Perhaps without making City the story (although given that we live in a country where Abu Dhabi's involvement is intrinsically linked to City in the minds of the public, I think that might be hoping for too much). Not because this story is necessarily a dramatic scandal that is beyond the pale but because similar matters in the future, not necessarily involving City or Abu Dhabi, might be and might really need exposing.
Someone being involved in the football club you support is not an acceptable reason to want to see any scrutiny or criticism of them modified or suppressed.
I also think that there is a bit of opportunism in making the name of City the story, again, as others have said.
However, if a high profile sporting institution is owned by someone who is part of the government or ruler of a country then scrutiny of goings on in that country has to be expected, even welcomed, as there are regimes out there who most certainly would not be suitable owners (and I do not mean Abu Dhabi).
For that reason, despite my reservations stated above, I don't really have an issue with the matters in the article being discussed. In fact, as PB has said, there may be more than meets the eye regarding the reasoning for the story. But that's just speculation.
If it is the case that certain abuses have occurred then it's good that it is written about. That's how things change and progress. Although I don't subscribe to the view that such incidents make a place some sort of totalitarian hellhole or people from there unsuitable owners. I don't particularly like looking at it this way but there are comparative issues in all countries that equal and surpass the matters written about in the article.
I think the thing that bothers me the most about this thread though is the strong attitude from many that such issues should either not be discussed or are totally irrelevant. If you are owned by someone with political power then you should welcome all such matters being discussed and transparency. To take the "who cares" or head in the sand attitude is to invite people who are far, far worse than our owners to take control of clubs and significantly tarnish them in the future.
These things should be discussed and written about. Perhaps in a different style. Perhaps without making City the story (although given that we live in a country where Abu Dhabi's involvement is intrinsically linked to City in the minds of the public, I think that might be hoping for too much). Not because this story is necessarily a dramatic scandal that is beyond the pale but because similar matters in the future, not necessarily involving City or Abu Dhabi, might be and might really need exposing.
Someone being involved in the football club you support is not an acceptable reason to want to see any scrutiny or criticism of them modified or suppressed.