De Jong vs Chelsea - COMS

[DTeacher]

I wonder how they would rate Claude Makalele?

As a defensive midfielder, probably one of the best. As a midfielder though, he was merely good.

If you have a system that requires a destructive anchorman then it's fine. But if you have a team that struggles to keep possession, then you need midfielders who can do more than one thing.

Real Madrid and Chelsea both used Makelele really well because their ball retention was really good and the majority of the team were capable of joining in with the attack, so an anchorman was required to fill in and mop up on the rare occasions the ball was lost.

However, in a team who constantly loses the midfield battle (us, away from home), an anchorman is sometimes detrimental. We'd benefit from a more complete midfielder, and 1,000 over-head kick clearances from 'Nige' won't change my mind.

If De Jong is a world class defensive midfielder, then Richard Dunne is a world class combative defender.

Firstly, I have stated NOWHERE that I consider De Jong to be world class....that was done by others.

Makalele was merely an example as he would be the closest example imho, althoughNDJ is not at that level (yet). NDJ is still young and has time to mature into a really top-class player and he certainly has shown signs of capability, despite what his detractors state.

You make a decent point about the team an anchor-man or holding midfielder plays in, but surely that is not the fault of De Jong? I think it was 'PSmyth' who posted earlier about having players like Ireland and Michael Johnson alongside him (more flair or attack-minded players) - would he more effective in that scenario? I believe he would.

As others have stated previously, De Jong carries out a SPECIFIC task which has been assigned to him by the MANAGER - be that Hughes, Mancini or the Dutch Manager...or his previous Managers. Hod-Carrier has been mentioned amongst other things. Not necessarily a negative - look at the job Barry carries out for England - look at the role assigned to Owen Hargreaves when he played there for England.

There IS a place for players like De Jong but it needs others to be more creative and dynamic around him for his role to be fully effective. I also found the video above from his Ajax days very interesting - he looks to have more about him with some attractive attributes, in the box-to-box role he seems to be carrying out there. He seems to pass forward more for Holland as well - is this because he has more movement from those in front of him?

I'll not go on all night as most of the arguments have been going on for weeks now over NDJ - suffice to say that the truth is probably somewhere in between both apparent schools of thought on here. He is NOT World Class BUT he is also DEFINITELY not shite. In fact, he is a good player at an age where he could go on to become a REALLY GOOD player.

Time will tell.

 

[mcfc_nick]

i watched a video of when he was at ajax while i was on youtube then and he can finish as well

Is this the one?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGQRjLwj-Xk&feature=related[/youtube]

He was used as a box-to-box midfielder at Ajax.

yes, some quality finishes in there

 

[oakiecokie]

Is this the one?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGQRjLwj-Xk&feature=related[/youtube]

He was used as a box-to-box midfielder at Ajax.

yes, some quality finishes in there

And that was my point about ALL supporters watching this clip,to confirm that our Nige has more about him than just a negative midfielder,given the chance.

 

[There is a Light]

i watched a video of when he was at ajax while i was on youtube then and he can finish as well

Is this the one?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGQRjLwj-Xk&feature=related[/youtube]

He was used as a box-to-box midfielder at Ajax.

Jesus, that video is a revelation. He looks decent in a more attacking role as well.

For what it's worth I love de Jong in the position he plays. True, he is generally better in the big matches when he has more of a job protecting the back four, but when you play a defensive midfielder against Blackburn or Portsmouth at home you aren't going to have as much to do as they aren't going to play attacking football. You could question if he is required at all in those games but that is another argument. It his hardly his fault though and he is playing the way he is being asked to by Mancini and previously Hughes. Likewise it is hardly his fault if he isn't over ambitious with his passing and forays forward if that is not the role he is being asked to play.

It will be interesting to see how he plays at the World Cup, I think and hope he will be influential for Holland.

 

[HardyBarlow]

This whole thread is a direct result of the current season we are having and the legacy left by the previous manager.

- At no point have we been able to select the same team week in week out which means we remain inconsistent.

- As a result, the manager is still struggling to find his best team and the formation we should play.

- The Manager has very little option in central midfield and has tried to address it in the notoriously difficult January transfer window.

The players we have dictate a midfield 3. Barry is far too slow to play in a central two and our genuine left midfield options offer nowt defensively making Bridge look a twat. De Jong offers nothing going forward and Stevie has had a dip this season.

In contrast, look at Barry for England? He's the first name on the team sheet because he does the simple things well and he's got Lampard and Gerrard in front of him in a 3 man midfield. Put De Jong in there and he looks equally as great...of yeah, he does, a la Holland.

The fact is, the midfield blend is all wrong at City. For me it's either Barry OR De Jong, both good players but, for me, they do not offer enough in the opposition half. We need a Schnijder (sp?)/Van der Vaart/Gourcruff alongside Barry or De Jong with, on tonight’s performance for Barca, Yaya Toure.

The fact is, Barry and De Jong are essentially the same type of player. I rate both of em’ in that position, but to look good there you need the quality around you and we do not have it….yet.

 

[Eddie Hitler]

can only assume he started this thread as a wind-up!,if anybody thinks NDJ is world class they aint seen a lot of football!

 

[Freestyler]

De Jong does what alot of players don't do, and that's being phased in bigger matches, if anything De Jong plays better, thats a sign of a top class player,

i'm sick of this bollocks about him not going forward and passing it sideways, so everyone wants him to try and do a messi and run through the defence then?, would everyone prefer him to lump it forward and lose it because they don't like his sideways passing?

he ALWAYS plays the simple pass when it's on, de jong's job is to break the play up, win the ball, pick up anything loose in the middle, he wins it, lays it off then lets gaz baz and the rest take care in the centre,

take De Jong out our team and watch our midfield get over run and the tackle won statistics plummit,

His role is to help the back 4, win the ball, he's there to control and protect the middle of the pitch and get stuck in, and he does a fucking good job of it.

 

[Eddie Hitler]

Yes,and a lot of his simple passes go to the opposition

 

[blue_soundwave]

To the OP -

What's the name of the song in your vid? Think it's in Requiem For A Dream.

 

[oakiecokie]

To the OP -

What's the name of the song in your vid? Think it's in Requiem For A Dream.

Would also like to find out what the tune is.
Anyone any ideas please ?????

 

[blue_soundwave]

Just did a bit of digging and found out it's called 'Lux Aeterna'.

Can't believe I recognised it as the requiem for a dream theme and not bloody Soccer Saturday!

 

[AntMcfc]

Clint Mansell - Requiem for a Dream. That's all I searched for on Limewire and every download available was the theme tune for RfaD.

 

[Ducky_]

Great at tackling obv but too defence minded to play in a 4-4-2 imo.

Should be used as a solid DM like Yaya Toure at Barca.

 

[blue jim]

Because he is the most over rated player on our books that's why.

Great at tackling in home games but disappears up his own backside when we are away from home - when a player like him should be proving his worth.

His pondering, laboured actions once he has won it, stifle our natural attacking play and his inability to move the ball quickly (or forward) telegraphs the situation to the opposition and allows them all to slot nicely back into their positions to nullify any threat.

Apart from that, he snarls a lot, shakes his fist and impresses kids who used to shout "scrap, scrap" when they saw that tell-tale huddle at the far end of the playground.

Oh and, yes, your video is nice but Samaras looked even more impressive on the You Tube compilation his No.1 fan put together before he signed for us.

numpty of the day award goes to....



de jong is brilliant. if he was good at going forward and getting goals he would be one of the best midfielders in the world. absolute out and out ball winner and something every team needs. with a more creative midfielder (even playing barry more advanced) and letting de jong do what he does best, break up attacks and win balls, we should be onto something. i honestly cant think of many DMs that are as good as him right now. they're out there and purely because they're better than him at going forward, which has never been the purpose of his role with us.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

over rated? my arse ... without him this season we'd have REALLY struggled!!!! And does it matter if he passes it side or back? hes stopped there attack and thats what matters ... plus ive seen him pass forward quite a bit recently

When you are up against a team with a vast range of attacking options, ie the OldTopFour, then he is INDISPENSABLE. When we have the upper hand, then we need someone with greater attacking flair. I

 

[oakiecokie]

over rated? my arse ... without him this season we'd have REALLY struggled!!!! And does it matter if he passes it side or back? hes stopped there attack and thats what matters ... plus ive seen him pass forward quite a bit recently

When you are up against a team with a vast range of attacking options, ie the OldTopFour, then he is INDISPENSABLE. When we have the upper hand, then we need someone with greater attacking flair. I

So thats NDJs fault is it ??????
Look at the post on this thread where it shows him playing in the Dutch League.
He has got the talent but both Hughes and Bobby Mand decided to use him in a different manner than he looks accustomed to.
Don,t use the excuse "well the Dutch League isn,t as good as the PL", look at where he plays for Holland !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mcfc_die_hard]

Because he is the most over rated player on our books that's why.

Great at tackling in home games but disappears up his own backside when we are away from home - when a player like him should be proving his worth.

His pondering, laboured actions once he has won it, stifle our natural attacking play and his inability to move the ball quickly (or forward) telegraphs the situation to the opposition and allows them all to slot nicely back into their positions to nullify any threat.

Apart from that, he snarls a lot, shakes his fist and impresses kids who used to shout "scrap, scrap" when they saw that tell-tale huddle at the far end of the playground.

Oh and, yes, your video is nice but Samaras looked even more impressive on the You Tube compilation his No.1 fan put together before he signed for us.

2 words

shut up.

 

[Unknown_Genius]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeSCfIb1mLY&feature=related[/youtube]

At 0:46, look at his goal against Arsenal, he beats Ashley Cole of all defenders.

 

[ono]

Can those who say he is not a world class player define exactly what a defensive midfielder's duties are (because I can never recall Makelele pinging through balls left right and centre). What the fook has the guy gotta do bag hat-trick every game??

De Jong is well and truly world class in my book. Not the best in his position but certainly within the top 5 or 6 (and can there only be 2 world class players in this position or something)?

If he isn't world class please tell me the defensive midfielders that are because my football education must be seriously flawed.

Nice one for all those who have given him a kicking on this thread as well, top boys, top fans, I'm so glad I sit next to you every week.

Cambiasso, Pirlo, Fellaini, Diarra, Yaya Toure, Banega, Renato, Song, Mikel, Fletcher, Keita, Busquets, Mascherano, Essien, Palacios all do the job of protecting the back 4, whilst offering more to the attacking side of the team. It's just that some of these players use less obvious skills such as reading of the game and positional sense, wheras De Jong uses tough tackling and physicality.

That's why i think he's only a good player. He can look spectacular because he's so combative and menacing. But he isn't world class, mainly for the fact that he isn't that good on the ball and he offers almost zero in the opposition's half. Again, i understand that isn't his job, but there are plenty of players who do his job just as effectively, whilst still being effective in the oppositions half. Again i must re-iterate, i understand that we don't use him as that, but that fact is that option will never be there with De Jong, and it's the thing that stops him from being World Class in my book.

It's just an opinion. I rate him as a player. I just think there is an awful lot of games where we'd benefit from a more complete player, playing in his role.

 

[Impeccable]

Looking at footage of NDJ in playing for Ajax I think RM should consider using him in a similar role for us!!!!! The guy looks the biz. Certainly has an eye for a goal.

Surely, the reason he was purchased was on the strength of these kind of performances. He doesn't look like a defensive midfielder on any of that footage. I think he is being wasted playing the DM role for us, based on what I have just watched!!!!!