De Jong vs Chelsea - COMS

Some of this thread is just laughable...

De Jong is easily one of the best DM's in the world. The only reason he looks like he plays to slow and doesnt pass quickly enough is because of the static movement around him...Barry, Zab etc - Our main flaw is the lack of movement when players have the ball. When De Jong or anyone else gets it, they have 1 or maybe 2 options on...not 3 or 4 or 5 like Arsenal, Scum, Chelsea etc do. Thats the main difference between them and us for me. If you paired De Jong with a truly creative player such as Sneijder, Arshavin etc in the middle, he would flurish alot more. He wins the ball and looks for movement, sees there isnt any so plays it backwards or sideways rather than lumping it forward. We need someone alongside De Jong who wants the ball constantly and wants to make things happen. Barry, Viera, Zab and even this seasons Ireland are not up to that role.
 
Sky Blue said:
ono said:
Cracking post. Couldn't have put it better myself.
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Only because you agree with him. DD rated Andy Hill on another thread, each to their own I guess.
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I wonder how they would rate Claude Makalele?
 
Claude Makelele has a lot to answer for....

Ever since Chelsea employed him in that role just in front of the back four, lots of teams "aspiring" to catch up with Man Utd / Chelsea have become obsessed with finding the right player for this role (e.g. Mascherano at Liverpool / De Jong for us).

But there is a world of difference between a "destructive" defensive midfielder (such as the player De Jong has become) and a more skilful "holding" midfielder who is comfortable on the ball and can also pick out a pass.

If the players in your team are good enough, then there is nothing wrong with 4-4-2 vs most opposition with two athletic , skilful hard-working midfielders in the middle. Man Utd often play two out of Carrick / Scholes / Fletcher / Giggs in central midfield with two wingers and Rooney + 1 up front. Only Fletcher could be described as a tackler and even he seems to find time to get forward as well ( as we found out in the Derby at OT).

I have nothing against De Jong but he is one of the players that unbalances our side since he is SO happy to sit just in front of the back four that he virtually forces the manager to play another 2 central midfielders (2 out of Barry / Zabaleta / Vieira / Ireland) so that we can't play 4-4-2.

I really like the way Aston Villa have abandoned the need for "brawn" in midfield by dropping Reo-Coker and have embraced "skill" and "brains" by picking 2 wingers, a converted winger (Milner) and Stylian Petrov as their midfield 4.

City have invested far more money in attacking players (Tevez / Adebayor / Bellamy / Santa Cruz / Robinho) than we have spent in midfield.. so I say we should play to our strengths with a 4-4-2.

It's been a real pity that SWP and (sometimes) Barry have been in such poor form this season because otherwise we should be looking at SWP on the right wing / AJ or Bellamy on the left wing / Barry + 1 in central midfield / and Tevez + Adebayor up front.
That is the formation Martin O'Neill would be picking if he were City manager.

The beauty of the above system is that everyone knows their role and if you don't perform to a high enough standard the manager eventually replaces you with someone else.
 
^^^ Hmmmm. ^^^

Have you posted that before....sure I have read it previously.....lol
 
DD said:
AntMcfc said:
Congratz, you know nothing about football.
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It doesn't take a lot to fool your average City supporter I'm afraid.

You probably liked Jamie Pollock because he used to clench his fists and gee the crowd up before winning the ball and passing it into the Kippax. Do you remember that far back?

Sometimes you have to look beyond the surface with a footballer and look at things beyond his obvious talent which is winning the football. It's nice winning it but if you are too slow and pedestrian to utilise it quickly afterwards you nullify the effect. We can get Vinnie Jones out of retirement if all you want is some hard bugger who can tackle but we are looking at a team with Champions League ambitions here.

It does matter if only he telegraphs his pass to the side because the counter attack cannot happen. Good defensive midfielders win it and distribute it quickly. You can knock it to the side quickly, it is allowed. Watch De Jong win it, stop, ponder and see how it could be utilised more efficiently if you had a truly world class defensive midfielder.

Not only that but when we are playing the football out from the back, he gets in the way by, again, slowing everything down and not having the nouse to pass it quickly and incisively.

You don't have to be aggressive to be a defensive midfielder. A player who can do it in a more controlled, calmer and more composed way will do the job more effectively, usually because he is a tighter man marker but because of his positional excellence he makes the job look easier but less impressive/exciting to the unlearned. Such a player can also think quickly enough to play a simple but effective pass to set up a forward movement.

De Jong is a very limited midfielder who is excellent at one facet of a midfielder's game only and even that is only when we are on home soil.
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You make a good point there about his distribution after he wins the ball
that's why we need a quality play maker in there with him. Who do you think is our best midfielder in that position? there are not many players who can do both.
 
Nigel De Jong plays total football! he keeps it simple and tries to play the easiest pass possible to keep the ball blue! when City have the ball the opposition can't score!

Stephen Ireland got our player of the season (undeserved in my book as I thought Kompany had a better consistency of high level performances) last season, and he gives the ball away all the fuckin time, even if he plays well in general he still gives the ball away! when the opposition has the ball they can score goals!

If Nigel De Jong had a decent and consistent central and attacking midfielder to play with him he'd look even better than he already does! be sometimes looks to pass forward and our other midfielders are so slow or lazy (to find space to be passed to in) that he has to turn around and pass backwards or he punts long (which he isn't good at!)! one guy has given an example of him booting the ball into rowZ at Stoke - but look at Mascherano at the CoMS he was diving about, kicking fuck out of our players and giving the ball away all game - and I rate him almost up with Essien - so good players can make mistakes and have bad games from time to time, as De Jong does!

Too many of our players give the ball away too frequently and this is up with the biggest reasons for not winning games - and De Jong isn't one if these players!

He's in my list of untouchables in our squad:
Lescott
Kompany
De Jong
Tevez
(with 2 almost untouchables: Bellamy and A.Johnson)

If we're serious about not being embarrassed in the Champions League, anyone else in our squad can be replaced with a better player as far as I'm concerned! De Jong isn't one of them!<br /><br />-- Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:14 pm --<br /><br />By the way great video Ant!
 
I don't think there's that many better at his role... so perhaps 'World Class' isn't too hefty a tag to put on him.

I do rate him, and i understand why the majority of his passes are sideways... you can see, as we were told when he came, he's got a good aray of passes when needed, but he seems to be under orders to win it and give it... keep things very simple.

One of the first names on the team sheet for me, home or away.<br /><br />-- Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:24 pm --<br /><br />Nice video too btw mate, good quality... whats the song called?
 
It doesn't take a lot to fool your average City supporter I'm afraid.

You probably liked Jamie Pollock because he used to clench his fists and gee the crowd up before winning the ball and passing it into the Kippax. Do you remember that far back?

Sometimes you have to look beyond the surface with a footballer and look at things beyond his obvious talent which is winning the football. It's nice winning it but if you are too slow and pedestrian to utilise it quickly afterwards you nullify the effect. We can get Vinnie Jones out of retirement if all you want is some hard bugger who can tackle but we are looking at a team with Champions League ambitions here.

It does matter if only he telegraphs his pass to the side because the counter attack cannot happen. Good defensive midfielders win it and distribute it quickly. You can knock it to the side quickly, it is allowed. Watch De Jong win it, stop, ponder and see how it could be utilised more efficiently if you had a truly world class defensive midfielder.

Not only that but when we are playing the football out from the back, he gets in the way by, again, slowing everything down and not having the nouse to pass it quickly and incisively.

You don't have to be aggressive to be a defensive midfielder. A player who can do it in a more controlled, calmer and more composed way will do the job more effectively, usually because he is a tighter man marker but because of his positional excellence he makes the job look easier but less impressive/exciting to the unlearned. Such a player can also think quickly enough to play a simple but effective pass to set up a forward movement.

De Jong is a very limited midfielder who is excellent at one facet of a midfielder's game only and even that is only when we are on home soil.[/quote]


Great post. I'd also question his reading of the game.
To say he's world class is laughable. Take a look at Cambiasso last night and you'll see how that position should be played
 
Maybe he passes it sideways because the players within range are at his side rather than further forward???
 
AntMcfc said:
I made this the other day, just bored and wanted to make a comp of the legend himself. How anybody can deny this man is a world class DM is beyond me...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYRNEfFDw0[/youtube]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYRNEfFDw0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYRNEfFDw0</a>
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Really well put together video mate but I'm a bit embarrassed you used the words world class.
 
Great post. I'd also question his reading of the game.
To say he's world class is laughable. Take a look at Cambiasso last night and you'll see how that position should be played
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Pure imbecile, utter gorm. Disgusting comment. DJ is one of the best readers of the game in the world, you should be fucking embarrassed.
 
AntMcfc said:
Great post. I'd also question his reading of the game.
To say he's world class is laughable. Take a look at Cambiasso last night and you'll see how that position should be played
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Pure imbecile, utter gorm. Disgusting comment. DJ is one of the best readers of the game in the world, you should be fucking embarrassed.
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Yeah I reckon he'll be really embarressed by voicing his opinion on a forum
 
Cambiasso is a worldclass DM, De Jong is not.

De jong is the best DM I have seen in a Cityshirt however and a very good player.

Maybe he could become worldclass if our midfield was not so unbalenced.

The lack of any real creative midfielders at the club means that people look at DJs lack of creativity, and not at the very good defensive work he does.
 
De Jong was awesome on this game - he had Essien in his hipper - which is no mean feet!!

His job is to be the water carrier, break the opposition play down and get the ball to our creative players.

If you see the job he does for Holland this explains his role and shows his strengths.

If you expect De Jong to run past players and score goals you are going to be disappointed.

De Jong passing the ball sidewards and backwards is not a problems as long as the pass is completed and the player receiving the ball has time to control it without losing the ball or an option for a first time ball.

His tackling his amazing at times if a little reckless at times for my liking!

The biggest improvement De Jong can make is increase his pass percentage and perhaps not go to ground so often it's only a matter of time before he is sent off due to an opposition player feigning injury
 
AntMcfc said:
Great post. I'd also question his reading of the game.
To say he's world class is laughable. Take a look at Cambiasso last night and you'll see how that position should be played
Click to expand...
Pure imbecile, utter gorm. Disgusting comment. DJ is one of the best readers of the game in the world, you should be fucking embarrassed.
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Cheers for the insults. I just think for someone who's only role in the team is to sit in front of the back 4 the amount of times he get's caught out chasing shadows is fucking embarrassing
 
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