Death of the pub, its impact on society.

[Blue Punter]

Apart from the employment side of things what impact has the decline of the Great British pub had ?

I remember as a young lad being allowed to go out with my dad to the pub on Sunday dinner to watch him play pool. couple of lager shandies, mix with adults and of course shuffle all my dads ten pence pieces into the table space invader machine.

Im sure mixing with adults outside of the family unit in a social setting had a massive effect on how i interacted and respected my elders. Improving how i acted whilst out and about on the streets, I was no longer a faceless teen on the street as many of the blokes could put my face to my dad so if i was being a knob dear old daddy would get it in the neck, and i would get it in the arse (slipper, not what your thinking you sado).

Soon as i reached 18 it was up and at em on saturday / sunday dinner for a game of cards, pool, darts, dominoes, again mixing with my elders as a young adult.
Gaining and showing respect.

Whats your take ?

Great post.

I used to work in a Holts pub and at the time it was a great boozer. Especially the vault. It was only small, but always full and plenty of activity. 2 card schools, 2 domino schools. I learnt plenty from the customers in there. Several of them had me doing part time work for them during my beaks from University. Hotel work, gardening, decorating and a summer as a sparkies mate.

I also learnt the value of reliability. If you didn't pay for your Tote double, football pontoon or bonus ball in time, you lost your go. Simple as. Had some great race trips and morning drives.

I play snooker in a local league and every now and again, you'll be drawn against a young lad. Some of them are sound. You can sense there the ones who've been down the local with their dad like you, ts.

There's others who are so green and socially awkward, you wonder how they're gonna make it through life.

 

[peoffrey]

The smoking ban, and it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, killed a lot of City centre pubs due to lack of outdoor space. I agree that pubs are cleaner now but go to a nightclub, all you can smell is sweat. I'd rather smell tobacco.

A friend of mine is in the business and says Bars in town centres haven't experienced too much change but local Pubs don't get the business. Interestingly, Wetherspoons now make more from food than beer.

I myself hate Pubs and prefer to have a night in with food, beer and music / films as opposed to getting through £30 in the Pub to be surrounded by pissheads and desperate Women. Football is the one true saviour as I love a crowd for it. I'll rarely go out for just a Pint with someone. I can't be bothered.

 

[BimboBob]

The smoking ban, and it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, killed a lot of City centre pubs due to lack of outdoor space. I agree that pubs are cleaner now but go to a nightclub, all you can smell is sweat. I'd rather smell tobacco.

A friend of mine is in the business and says Bars in town centres haven't experienced too much change but local Pubs don't get the business. Interestingly, Wetherspoons now make more from food than beer.

I myself hate Pubs and prefer to have a night in with food, beer and music / films as opposed to getting through £30 in the Pub to be surrounded by pissheads and desperate Women. Football is the one true saviour as I love a crowd for it. I'll rarely go out for just a Pint with someone. I can't be bothered.

It does all depend on the town centre. Mine, for instance, has lost 5 pubs just in the high street in the last 3 years alone. The ones that are left are the soulless, faceless big chain pubs with late licences. A couple of them even charge to get in now.
My local is struggling no matter what sort of entertainment he dreams up due to prices. Most people would rather pop into the supermarket and buy a crate of 24 bottles/cans for the price of a decent round. Which is a shame.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

There are few industries that have undergone as much of a change as the pub trade in the last ten years. There are a number of factors to this:

Supermarkets
Ten years ago the price differential between a pub and your local Tesco was probably 2:1. I reckon it is now nearer 4:1. This is down in the main to the fact that supermarkets are not looking to make money on booze. It is recognised as a perfect product to have as a loss leader. This has meant that the large increases in duty, VAT etc over the last few years have been swallowed by the big supermarkets thus accentuating the price differential even further.

Smoking Ban
Having already posted on here my overall support for the smoking ban there can be no doubt it has spelled the end for many locals. When the ban first came in it was July and its full effects weren't felt for several months. In fact it was probably a full 18 months before smokers got pissed off with standing in the rain smoking.

Social Networking Sites
A massively underestimated factor especially among the 18-29 age bracket. Many student pubs have seen trade drop alarmingly in the last 5 years due in no small part to this.

Regulation
The pub sector is one of the most heavily regulated. Food safety, fire regs, licensing requirements are just the tip of the iceberg. This has added significant expense to already struggling businesses.

Pub Companies
A lot of the larger 'pubco's' operate primarily as property companies. The rents that are charged on many pubs make it impossible for people to operate at a profit or even to make a living wage.

2003 Licensing Act
There are changes afoot to the above which will make life a lot more difficult for pub operators. Residents groups are going to have a field day. This will finish off a lot of local boozers that are clinging on by their fingertips.


All these, and many other factors have impacted (and will continue to impact) on the numbers of local pubs (and let's not forget the demise of the social club) which has doubtless had a negative effect on the glue of local communities. It is very sad, and whilst inevitable in many instances, this decline can only have a negative influence on wider society and the way we interact with our fellow man.

 

[117 M34]

There are few industries that have undergone as much of a change as the pub trade in the last ten years. There are a number of factors to this:

Supermarkets
Ten years ago the price differential between a pub and your local Tesco was probably 2:1. I reckon it is now nearer 4:1. This is down in the main to the fact that supermarkets are not looking to make money on booze. It is recognised as a perfect product to have as a loss leader. This has meant that the large increases in duty, VAT etc over the last few years have been swallowed by the big supermarkets thus accentuating the price differential even further.

Smoking Ban
Having already posted on here my overall support for the smoking ban there can be no doubt it has spelled the end for many locals. When the ban first came in it was July and its full effects weren't felt for several months. In fact it was probably a full 18 months before smokers got pissed off with standing in the rain smoking.

Social Networking Sites
A massively underestimated factor especially among the 18-29 age bracket. Many student pubs have seen trade drop alarmingly in the last 5 years due in no small part to this.

Regulation
The pub sector is one of the most heavily regulated. Food safety, fire regs, licensing requirements are just the tip of the iceberg. This has added significant expense to already struggling businesses.

Pub Companies
A lot of the larger 'pubco's' operate primarily as property companies. The rents that are charged on many pubs make it impossible for people to operate at a profit or even to make a living wage.

2003 Licensing Act
There are changes afoot to the above which will make life a lot more difficult for pub operators. Residents groups are going to have a field day. This will finish off a lot of local boozers that are clinging on by their fingertips.


All these, and many other factors have impacted (and will continue to impact) on the numbers of local pubs (and let's not forget the demise of the social club) which has doubtless had a negative effect on the glue of local communities. It is very sad, and whilst inevitable in many instances, this decline can only have a negative influence on wider society and the way we interact with our fellow man.

So you are saying that someone would turn down the offer of a saturday night out in the pub with their mates to sit on facebook/twitter etc all night?
I don't believe that, and I am in that age bracket and use social network sites, obviously not when I can be in a pub though.

 

[peoffrey]

It does all depend on the town centre. Mine, for instance, has lost 5 pubs just in the high street in the last 3 years alone. The ones that are left are the soulless, faceless big chain pubs with late licences. A couple of them even charge to get in now.
My local is struggling no matter what sort of entertainment he dreams up due to prices. Most people would rather pop into the supermarket and buy a crate of 24 bottles/cans for the price of a decent round. Which is a shame.

There's obviously going to be factors like the local economy but, in general, Bars are doing fine and Pubs aren't.

Where you and I mutually drink is under the Fullers banner. £4 a Pint but I got 4 Pint cans for £3.99 on Friday. There's something in that!

 

[WJP]

This is a generational thing, though. For our parents it was normal to spend a sunday in the pub. I remember drinking from a glass bottle of coke, playing pool and eating crisps, while my old fella supped pints of guiness with his pals. And this was something that everyone did, not just working classes. People would goto the pub after sunday mass, have a few pints before going home for the sunday roast. It was like the queen vic on eastenders, everyone met in the pub.

These days only down and outs hang around the pub on a sunday. Responsible parents will opt for a family day out somewhere nice, where the kids will be entertained. The parents are less interested in entertaining themselves, unless they goto the football etc..

If you goto my local boozer now, it's full of scamps in tracksuits. Fingers adorned with sovreign rings, unable to string a sentence together without the use of disgusting language, snorting coke in the toilets, and a scatter of feral children running wild un-supervised, while their dis-interested parents are getting drunk in a fug of smoke from their 3 inch long superkings.

It's an unpleasant experience now. There's a bad atmosphere that didn't exist 15/20 years ago.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

There are few industries that have undergone as much of a change as the pub trade in the last ten years. There are a number of factors to this:

Supermarkets
Ten years ago the price differential between a pub and your local Tesco was probably 2:1. I reckon it is now nearer 4:1. This is down in the main to the fact that supermarkets are not looking to make money on booze. It is recognised as a perfect product to have as a loss leader. This has meant that the large increases in duty, VAT etc over the last few years have been swallowed by the big supermarkets thus accentuating the price differential even further.

Smoking Ban
Having already posted on here my overall support for the smoking ban there can be no doubt it has spelled the end for many locals. When the ban first came in it was July and its full effects weren't felt for several months. In fact it was probably a full 18 months before smokers got pissed off with standing in the rain smoking.

Social Networking Sites
A massively underestimated factor especially among the 18-29 age bracket. Many student pubs have seen trade drop alarmingly in the last 5 years due in no small part to this.

Regulation
The pub sector is one of the most heavily regulated. Food safety, fire regs, licensing requirements are just the tip of the iceberg. This has added significant expense to already struggling businesses.

Pub Companies
A lot of the larger 'pubco's' operate primarily as property companies. The rents that are charged on many pubs make it impossible for people to operate at a profit or even to make a living wage.

2003 Licensing Act
There are changes afoot to the above which will make life a lot more difficult for pub operators. Residents groups are going to have a field day. This will finish off a lot of local boozers that are clinging on by their fingertips.


All these, and many other factors have impacted (and will continue to impact) on the numbers of local pubs (and let's not forget the demise of the social club) which has doubtless had a negative effect on the glue of local communities. It is very sad, and whilst inevitable in many instances, this decline can only have a negative influence on wider society and the way we interact with our fellow man.

So you are saying that someone would turn down the offer of a saturday night out in the pub with their mates to sit on facebook/twitter etc all night?
I don't believe that, and I am in that age bracket and use social network sites, obviously not when I can be in a pub though.

Probably not, but they would (and frequently do) turn down the offer a drink on a Monday, Tuesday etc. Pubs cannot survive on Saturday nights alone. Your use of that night as an example is indicative of the changing role pubs play in people's lives now.

Wherever you are, boarded up pubs are everywhere. That has to be (in part) because people like you don't frequent them as much as they used to. It's simple maths.

 

[mancmackem]

So you are saying that someone would turn down the offer of a saturday night out in the pub with their mates to sit on facebook/twitter etc all night?
I don't believe that, and I am in that age bracket and use social network sites, obviously not when I can be in a pub though.

I think he's trying to say that social media can be used to make alternative arrangements, like house parties rather than the old reliability on the local and knowing that people you knew would be in.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

So you are saying that someone would turn down the offer of a saturday night out in the pub with their mates to sit on facebook/twitter etc all night?
I don't believe that, and I am in that age bracket and use social network sites, obviously not when I can be in a pub though.

I think he's trying to say that social media can be used to make alternative arrangements, like house parties rather than the old reliability on the local and knowing that people you knew would be in.

No I'm not. Although that is a further consequence. I'm talking of people who 10 years ago would have much less to occupy their leisure time and so would be much more inclined to go to the pub.