Declan Rice

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nottsco2-0 said:
He found himself far too easily marked out of the game the other night. Everything should go through him in that position, he was the main reason the ball wasn't progressed enough
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Spot on this and very honestly England's lack of quality in that position has put him on a pedestal, his lack of world class qualities is the main reason why England's possession game isn't as effective, he doesn't have the vision and lacks the confidence to be a truly dominant presence I'd kill for England to have a Rodri type there, he's currently sadly the best England have to offer I'm trying not to be too harsh on him but can't lie, he's a versatile centre back/defensive midfielder and when I look at him as a defensive midfielder compared to others I've seen in the past, it's totally impossible to ignore he just hasn't got what it takes to ever be an elite level operator... Positionally he lacks the proper awareness needed and mentally he can't control a game from the back, the best defensive midfielder's can do both comfortably and also technically Rice's passing range or vision simply isn't good enough.

Someone like Didi Hamann during his pomp absolutely embarrasses Rice in every category, defensively so much more assured a calming influence with his range of passing, and even going forward he was a far bigger threat due to his powerful shot and aerial ability.
He isn't half as good as Marc-Vivién Foé and I'm not being biased or sympathising with a dead guy (R.I.P.) who once played for us cos Marc was a great all rounder, Foé was a commanding physical presence great in the air and tackle he busted a gut and distributed the ball well, also as shown during his loan spell here before his untimely death he was good going forward.

If he played for Feyenoord 20 years ago the 3rd best Dutch team during this period, you might think this statement sounds ridiculous at first but he certainly wouldn't have got in their midfield, as Paul Bosvelt was very important defensively and better at marking players he had better awareness positionally and was a leader, plus Mark van Bommel was their box-to-box midfielder and although he could get stuck in and was very good all round, he needed that extra security that Rice wouldn't have offered him compared to Bosvelt.
 
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Kinkladze's crazy skills said:
Spot on this and very honestly England's lack of quality in that position has put him on a pedestal, his lack of world class qualities is the main reason why England's possession game isn't as effective, he doesn't have the vision and lacks the confidence to be a truly dominant presence I'd kill for England to have a Rodri type there, he's currently sadly the best England have to offer I'm trying not to be too harsh on him but can't lie, he's a versatile centre back/defensive midfielder and when I look at him as a defensive midfielder compared to others I've seen in the past, it's totally impossible to ignore he just hasn't got what it takes to ever be an elite level operator... Positionally he lacks the proper awareness needed and mentally he can't control a game from the back, the best defensive midfielder's can do both comfortably and also technically Rice's passing range or vision simply isn't good enough.

Someone like Didi Hamann during his pomp absolutely embarrasses in Rice in every category, defensively so much more assured a calming influence with his range of passing, and even going forward he was a far bigger threat due to his powerful shot and aerial ability.
He isn't half as good as Marc-Vivién Foé and I'm not being biased or sympathising with a dead guy (R.I.P.) who once played for us cos Marc was a great all rounder, Foé was a commanding physical presence great in the air and tackle he busted a gut and distributed the ball well, also as shown during his loan spell here before his untimely death he was good going forward.

If he played for Feyenoord 20 years ago the 3rd best Dutch team during this period, you might think this statement sounds ridiculous at first but he certainly wouldn't have got in their midfield, as Paul Bosvelt was very important defensively and better at marking players he had better awareness positionally and was a leader, plus Mark van Bommel was their box-to-box midfielder and although he could get stuck in and was very good all round, he needed that extra security that Rice wouldn't have offered him compared to Bosvelt.
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Totally agree, you could see the frustration with Stones especially when he had the ball and was looking for the obvious out ball pass into the midfield that Rice just simply doesn't see or even wants, England's attacks never come from central positions, far too much reliability on the fullbacks to get attacking moves going, Rice is a poor mans Steve McMahon, extremely average player imo who's only effectiveness is ball rotation when he receives it from the fullbacks after yet another brick wall is met by Shaw and more recently in an England shirt Trippier. To be frank, Citys players are wasted under this buffoon of a manager.
 
flb said:
Totally agree, you could see the frustration with Stones especially when he had the ball and was looking for the obvious out ball pass into the midfield that Rice just simply doesn't see or even wants, England's attacks never come from central positions, far too much reliability on the fullbacks to get attacking moves going, Rice is a poor mans Steve McMahon, extremely average player imo who's only effectiveness is ball rotation when he receives it from the fullbacks after yet another brick wall is met by Shaw and more recently in an England shirt Trippier. To be frank, Citys players are wasted under this buffoon of a manager.
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I was tearing my hair out watching Rice v USA, half the time he seemed like he didn’t even want Stones/Maguire to give him the ball.

If you’re going to succeed with the posession game the defensive mid has to be really brave as well as having good awareness, and willingness to receive the pass even when they are likely to be closed down quickly. You see it loads watching city. Sadly we have been quite spoiled as blues watching a couple of masters in that position in recent years with Fernandinho and Rodri.

The fullbacks really don’t help either, Shaw and Trippier cannot pass. There were times v USA where Stones had to step up himself to break the lines directly into Saka/Kane as the players around him didn’t want it.
 
David Silva said:
I was tearing my hair out watching Rice v USA, half the time he seemed like he didn’t even want Stones/Maguire to give him the ball.

If you’re going to succeed with the posession game the defensive mid has to be really brave as well as having good awareness, and willingness to receive the pass even when they are likely to be closed down quickly. You see it loads watching city. Sadly we have been quite spoiled as blues watching a couple of masters in that position in recent years with Fernandinho and Rodri.

The fullbacks really don’t help either, Shaw and Trippier cannot pass. There were times v USA where Stones had to step up himself to break the lines directly into Saka/Kane as the players around him didn’t want it.
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Only this !
 
ysmsa said:
Declan Rice is a fucking shit Rodri.

No disrespect to Rodders who is fucking top drawer.

Be wary of any English player, their value is exaggerated x 10.
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Generally agree with this.

You can get good value English players but they are few and far between. Rice is good but no where near as good as Rodri and less suited to us than Phillips (assuming Phillips can actually get and stay fit).

Anything over £60m would be overpaying. Anything over £100m would be highway robbery.
 
ysmsa said:
Declan Rice is a fucking shit Rodri.

No disrespect to Rodders who is fucking top drawer.

Be wary of any English player, their value is exaggerated x 10.
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because English teams need to have a quota of home grown and club trained players in the squad or play with a small squad.

Saying that I am not recommending Rice to come to City, WHU would want as much as Dortmund want for Bellingham
 
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