Declan Rice

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Yes. And he was a year and a half younger than Rice now, coming from a top European club, already playing for one of the best national sides in the world, not one that just narrowly avoided relegation or constantly underperforms in international tournaments.

But I was also one of the few on here that always rated him and spent countless hours defending him in his performance threads as people slagged him off, called him Plodri, and demanded that he be sold as soon as possible.
Rodders didn't have the best of first seasons but he certainly didn't deserve to be sold.

My point was that the market has changed.

Also, most players change and improve drastically when they join this team, so making comparisons is pointless.

Much like the current clamour to sign a like for like replacement for Gundo, it doesn't exist. We didn't sign the Gundogan that just left, only by being here do they become the players they are.
 
A bit interesting to see that Pep didn't push City to match the bid or at least bid with a better payment structure. Arsenal are hung up on paying the fee over 5 years which is 20m/year, surely West Ham will reject that, City could do that in two or three if they really wanted to. I don't think City are completely out of it, even though everyone is reporting they are. Can't really understand why Rice would prefer Arsenal over City in this case given he more than likely won't win any major trophy in the next two or three years.
 
I just think Rice is going to dig his heels in for a move to us.
I am probably wrong as I always thought he wanted arsenal.

Just goes to show how much I know
None of us really know 'owt, apart from Rice & the other interested parties.

This sort of conjecture is what makes the off-season bearable (even if it is punctuated with people wanting to pass their own conjecture as fact).
 
We signed Haaland, alvarez, akanji and kovacic for a combined £105 million.

Win-win situation for us, we either get the player, become stronger and stop arsenal getting their primary target. Or, we've just made arsenal pay an extra £25-30 million and blow their entire remaining budget on Rice
A few more...

Gundogan 20m
Torres 21m (sold for 56m)
Jesus 27m (sold for 45m)
Ederson 35m (Kepa cost Chelsea twice as much)
Sane 37m (sold for 55m)
Ake 40m
Bernardo 43m

Whilst we overpaid for Grealish and Phillips, it has to be said that Txiki has bagged quite a few bargains.
 
Rodders didn't have the best of first seasons but he certainly didn't deserve to be sold.

My point was that the market has changed.

Also, most players change and improve drastically when they join this team, so making comparisons is pointless.

Much like the current clamour to sign a like for like replacement for Gundo, it doesn't exist. We didn't sign the Gundogan that just left, only by being here do they become the players they are.
I wasn’t comparing them as players when they signed; I have compared their potential ceiling, though, which I always held was very high for Rodri, even in his first season (which I still maintain was not as poor as many make out), and far higher than Rice’s.

I think Rice is actually pretty close to his ceiling now, with even Pep only able to marginally improve him, if he does come. I don’t think he’ll ever be able to fill Rodri’s role, or even the different role Dinho played. His passing is incredibly limited, he isn’t a particularly gifted shooter, and his build play is never going to be to either’s level.

He is what I would call and old school DM, with a real engine and aggression. There’s obviously a place for that in a system built to accommodate that limited contribution, but that requires it being built with his limitations in mind—ones that did not exist with Ilkay, Dinho, Barry, or now Rodri.

Perhaps Pep thought he could do it, and I have no reason to doubt he could.

But I also don’t think missing out on Rice is the calamity some are painting it as.

Unlike Rodri, there are plenty of other players that offer what Rice does. Some of them are younger, and may even be in our academy now.

I personally think Kovacic is actually an overall better player and I am not sure Rice will ever even reach his level (in either skills or achievement), much less Rodri’s (or even Gareth Barry’s, who was widely undervalued).
 
Rice is decent but not worth £100m. I don’t think he would’ve automatically even made it into our squad. How about de jong off Barca, always thought we should sign him. If he was English he’d probably be going for £100m as well
 
Phew…. Thought I’d never catch up to the end (so far) of this thread… my finger is sore from tapping my iPad screen
 
The money doesn't bother me, we could afford it. It's more telling that we don't want to cough up. That would suggest there are other irons in the fire, because if we thought Rice was the primary target, of such importance to our plans and his club is selling, we'd have no issue meeting the price tag

Either that or we've been directly told Rice wants Arsenal not us, either way we'll have our own cunning plans and these usually turn out pretty well.
There are no players that are 'primary target of importance to our plans. I really don't think that's how we operate.

there are just a list of very good players who might fit our system. And we have internal valuations based on relevant factors for each player.

We don't meet prices. We set our max.
 
Well Rice was /is never worth £70m in my book so I'm pleased we havent gone in for him at £105m. For that kind of money you want a player that can really influence and turn games , a match winner on his own. I don't see that in Rice, much less so than what Jack had on show before he joined us. Jack is that now. Rice will never be imo.
Just need to off load Philips who just isnt cut out for Peps style of play.
 
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I wasn’t comparing them as players when they signed; I have compared their potential ceiling, though, which I always held was very high for Rodri, even in his first season (which I still maintain was not as poor as many make out), and far higher than Rice’s.

I think Rice is actually pretty close to his ceiling now, with even Pep only able to marginally improve him, if he does come. I don’t think he’ll ever be able to fill Rodri’s role, or even the different role Dinho played. His passing is incredibly limited, he isn’t a particularly gifted shooter, and his build play is never going to be to either’s level.

He is what I would call and old school DM, with a real engine and aggression. There’s obviously a place for that in a system built to accommodate that limited contribution, but that requires it being built with his limitations in mind—ones that did not exist with Ilkay, Dinho, Barry, or now Rodri.

Perhaps Pep thought he could do it, and I have no reason to doubt he could.

But I also don’t think missing out on Rice is the calamity some are painting it as.

Unlike Rodri, there are plenty of other players that offer what Rice does. Some of them are younger, and may even be in our academy now.

I personally think Kovacic is actually an overall better player and I am not sure Rice will ever even reach his level (in either skills or achievement), much less Rodri’s (or even Gareth Barry’s, who was widely undervalued).
Spot on. I’m pleased we walked away at that price. We could have got 4 Kovacics for the same money. That demonstrates just how mental that price is. I really don’t think he will improve Arsenal that much.
 
Rice is decent but not worth £100m. I don’t think he would’ve automatically even made it into our squad. How about de jong off Barca, always thought we should sign him. If he was English he’d probably be going for £100m as well

If he was English he would be $140m. De Jong is a dream to me to come in City. An amazing player that suits Pep's style, let's hope it will happen even though I do not have any hopes....
 
Of course, but that goes without saying, as the board will operate very differently when Pep does eventually leave.

So it’s really a moot point and fans feeling “Pep will make it work” is perfectly justified whilst he is here.

And it’s not as if all the players we bring in now are going to be lower quality for the future, anyway.

Txiki and co aren’t going to be employing Boehlyball—we are still bringing in excellent players, all the while developing arguably the best talent in the world in our Academy.

In fact, I think there is an argument that signings like Kovacic (older, role players) are now needed more than signings like Haaland (young phenoms), because we have some very talented youth coming through and there needs to be a real path to the first team that doesn’t take 4-5 years to realise for a 21 year-old player.

We very likely have our own Bellinghams coming through now.

And that was always the long term strategy to ensure sustainability and high achievement.
I think this Is more to do with letting Leipzig know we won't pay over the odds for a player, In a way to speed up the deal, could be wrong.
 
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