Democrat US Presidential Nominations

[ChicagoBlue]

At last! An actual reasoned and considered response! I actually applaud you!

I'm gonna skip to the bit where you accuse me of "ignoring the financial crash".

I want you to think about why that crash happened, who was affected and how that was 'solved'. just remember it was us, the taxpayer, that caused the crash, but we had to bail out the irresponsibility of playing fast and loose.

When you do that, ask yourself why certain businesses had to be bailed out and you'll be asking similar questions again, now.

If the economy is based on a finite amount of money in the world, how is possible to bail out anybody? Because if capitalism is a true concept, we would be dealing with a 'dead'/ 'frozen' economy. By definition, that means what we have in our pockets/ banks/ bonds is all there is left in any country.

So, a 'bailout' is the printing of fresh money, is it not? Or quantitative easing, a term I know you hate.

The next question goes; how long does that go on for and surely the action of inflating the economy allows for wage rises? Money is finite, after all, unless it disappears into the hoarding of profit motives and then you're back to square one.

So, by understanding that a wage increase can happen, you can hire more whilst avoiding people leaving the necessary and important jobs AND get to stimulate the industries as people spend more within it.

That's called a win-win.

How anyone can argue against that baffles me.

Did you get that Economics degree with 10 box tops from your Frosties?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Agreed, poorly chosen phrase on my part. Please imagine the words ‘so big’ weren’t included. Stand by the rest of it though.

It’s a common misperception, because of the supposed size of the gap in Delegates, but that gap is based on 3 decent sized states and an antiquated system of apportioning Delegates.

How’s that “free trade” thing working out?!

 

[chesterbells]

It’s a common misperception, because of the supposed size of the gap in Delegates, but that gap is based on 3 decent sized states and an antiquated system of apportioning Delegates.

How’s that “free trade” thing working out?!

Indeed. Does that system of “apportioning delegates” ever get reviewed on any sort of regular basis, or is it set in stone?

I’ve no idea how US trade is working out tbh. I know from his pressers laat week he was saying how great US trade was before cv, but that’s no indication of whether it was or not, but I don’t follow US trade stats. How were they looking pre cv ?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The crash happened because greedy fucking bankers were high on money and didn’t stop to think.

I am also aware who bailed them out and it’s why I’ve been saying the banks need to help us now, like we did them.

Of course you can print more money but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, look at Zimbabwe. You do it when you’re in a crisis and that’s the last time the US did it, in 2008, to get them through it.

In the UK we’ve been running an experiment since 2010 to slowly continue doing it and I think it’s too early to say if it’s worked but the economy was doing well until COVID-19 fucked things up.

I don’t have a view on how long quantitative easing goes on for, I’m not an economics expert, I just know there’s a very fine line and you really need to get the balance right.

If you print your way to utopia then everyone would but you clearly cannot and therefore you need to act nearly as though money is finite, that’s just sensible fiscal policy.

As I’ve said, I’m not opposed to giving anyone a wage increase, they should happen naturally as the economy grows anyway, my point is that the left think making decisions like that is as easy as clicking my your fingers.

Quite often the money has to be pulled from elsewhere and when nurses are being given a pay increase, that may mean less police and more crime. Then the left moan about that and repeat with all sectors.

Of course we could increase quantitative easing but then inflation goes up and thousands more end up in poverty.

It’s why I’m a moderate in economics, you need to find a healthy balance and it’s why I quite liked Blair.

Anyway this is clogging up the Democrat Nomination thread so happy to discuss elsewhere?

Comparing the US with Zimbabwe when discussing printing money? Seriously?! Have you seen interest rates on Treasuries? The US can’t print enough money, even at 0.6% interest on a 10 yr Note right now, yet we are worrying about DEFLATION not INFLATION, and wages are stagnant at best, and with 17 MILLION new unemployed claimants in the last THREE WEEKS, I doubt we are going to say wage inflation in a good long time...unless a mandated increase in the minimum wage to $15 makes it, and that’s DOA in the Republican Senate!

Nuance is not a big thing in your “discussion” with Bigga, is it? Taking boiler plate “common knowledge” on economics and starting to apply it is not as easy as you have tried to make it look, so you’ve fallen into the trap of stating that common knowledge when it is complete bollocks and doesn’t apply at all.

A common mistake when it comes to economics, because economics is more art than science...and abstract art at that, because the basic assumptions (”all things being equal” and “in a rational market”) don’t exist in the real world where those theories are supposed to apply!

Ever notice, every economic political argument has “experts” on both sides? How can they both be right? How can they both have economic theories that work, yet are diametrically opposed?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Indeed. Does that system of “apportioning delegates” ever get reviewed on any sort of regular basis, or is it set in stone?

I’ve no idea how US trade is working out tbh. I know from his pressers laat week he was saying how great US trade was before cv, but that’s no indication of whether it was or not, but I don’t follow US trade stats. How were they looking pre cv ?

Census, every 10 years, on the round numbers. Just happened on April 1, 2020, which may be an ironic date given the issue.

US “trade stats” is a rather open-ended question not suitable for a quick answer. By many accounts it was ticking along OK, by other metrics it was stalling and the 2008 Bull run was running out of steam, with the exception of the top 5 or 6 companies that were making the stock market (not the economy or “trade stats”) look good, which is why Trump talks it up.

 

[Ban-jani]

Comparing the US with Zimbabwe when discussing printing money? Seriously?! Have you seen interest rates on Treasuries? The US can’t print enough money, even at 0.6% interest on a 10 yr Note right now, yet we are worrying about DEFLATION not INFLATION, and wages are stagnant at best, and with 17 MILLION new unemployed claimants in the last THREE WEEKS, I doubt we are going to say wage inflation in a good long time...unless a mandated increase in the minimum wage to $15 makes it, and that’s DOA in the Republican Senate!

Nuance is not a big thing in your “discussion” with Bigga, is it? Taking boiler plate “common knowledge” on economics and starting to apply it is not as easy as you have tried to make it look, so you’ve fallen into the trap of stating that common knowledge when it is complete bollocks and doesn’t apply at all.

A common mistake when it comes to economics, because economics is more art than science...and abstract art at that, because the basic assumptions (”all things being equal” and “in a rational market”) don’t exist in the real world where those theories are supposed to apply!

Ever notice, every economic political argument has “experts” on both sides? How can they both be right? How can they both have economic theories that work, yet are diametrically opposed?

I’ll give you a chance to delete this post as you’ve totally and utterly misunderstood what I’ve said.

Where the fuck have I compared the US to Zimbabwe?

It’s like you’ve taken what I’ve said and understood the literal opposite, I said the US don’t engage in printing money for the sake of it and only did so in 2008 as it was the finance crash!

Jesus wept, have you just woken up in Chicago?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I’ll give you a chance to delete this post as you’ve totally and utterly misunderstood what I’ve said.

Where the fuck have I compared the US to Zimbabwe?

It’s like you’ve taken what I’ve said and understood the literal opposite, I said the US don’t engage in printing money for the sake of it and only did so in 2008 as it was the finance crash!

Jesus wept, have you just woken up in Chicago?

“The crash happened because greedy fucking bankers were high on money and didn’t stop to think.

I am also aware who bailed them out and it’s why I’ve been saying the banks need to help us now, like we did them.

Of course you can print more money but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, look at Zimbabwe. You do it when you’re in a crisis and that’s the last time the US did it, in 2008, to get them through it.”

1) You can print money and it can be a good idea. Running to an extreme example (Zimbabwe) when discussing complex and sophisticated economies (UK and US) is nonsensical. Money is currency and it depends on who wants it and at what price. That’s the advantage of having a currency people trust and are willing to hold in times of crisis....you can print lots of it and you don’t get hyperinflation or devaluation.

2) The US didn’t stop printing money in 2008, in fact it has been printing money feverishly for quite some time now, even though it has just kicked it up to unheard of extremes in recent weeks.

And, no, I’m about to go to bed. I’m a night owl and the house is quiet. I’ll get up around lunchtime, seeing as how it’s fucking Groundhog Day tomorrow again! Quarantine sucks!!!

 

[Bigga]

Btw, Bigga and BanJani, you’re both talking a lot of bollocks with facts that aren’t facts!

“There’s only a finite amount of money”????

“The USA only printed money in 2008 and not since”????

I’m not sure what planet you’re on, but not this one!

Well, there's a "finite amount of money" to make the economy work and put value on or everywhere would be like, as Banjani pointed out, Zimbabwe and others.

So, yes, that makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Well, there's a "finite amount of money" to make the economy work and put value on or everywhere would be like, as Banjani pointed out, Zimbabwe and others.

So, yes, that makes sense, doesn't it?

With your Frosties Economics Degree it might. See my reply to your mate, esp as it relates to Zimbabwe and other, less “exotic” places and currencies. Also, think about the current levels of international trade and the currency exchanges NOT taking place, then realize somethings are valued in dollars, so you need dollars you may not have to pay for them, etc, etc, etc...

You guys enjoy. I’m not much interested in getting in between you, I just saw the post while replying to @chesterbells about Trump’s “big” win, which was anything but.

 

[Bigga]

“The crash happened because greedy fucking bankers were high on money and didn’t stop to think.

I am also aware who bailed them out and it’s why I’ve been saying the banks need to help us now, like we did them.

Of course you can print more money but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, look at Zimbabwe. You do it when you’re in a crisis and that’s the last time the US did it, in 2008, to get them through it.”

1) You can print money and it can be a good idea. Running to an extreme example (Zimbabwe) when discussing complex and sophisticated economies (UK and US) is nonsensical. Money is currency and it depends on who wants it and at what price. That’s the advantage of having a currency people trust and are willing to hold in times of crisis....you can print lots of it and you don’t get hyperinflation or devaluation.

2) The US didn’t stop printing money in 2008, in fact it has been printing money feverishly for quite some time now, even though it has just kicked it up to unheard of extremes in recent weeks.

And, no, I’m about to go to bed. I’m a night owl and the house is quiet. I’ll get up around lunchtime, seeing as how it’s fucking Groundhog Day tomorrow again! Quarantine sucks!!!

Maybe the night is getting to you?

You're arguing my point that wage rises and bailout can happen, both in the States and here.