Devante Cole: "City don't care about English kids"

[Neville Kneville]

I only mentioned Pellers because Cobra did, I'm talking about the folks that run the day to day of the youth side

I don't believe they have any say in who gets a game in the first team, nor should they imo, it should be the manager's decision.

My whole argument is about kids not getting any game time at that level. I don't think it's possible to know if a player can make it until that happens & some cave in & some apparently lesser players survive & then improve. It's not so dangerous to do it, if you pick the right times, & you will likely get some squad players out of it & perhaps a long term top player

I think it's key to development & without it, at the right time, some kids who could have made it, won't.

I have no problem with the academy setup, I think it's fantastic, but it should be kept in mind that it was also brilliant before we moved & we've had some potential top kids since the takeover, but we aren't seeing many involved at our club.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

I don't believe they have any say in who gets a game in the first team, nor should they imo, it should be the manager's decision.

You're right...but they will certainly recommend players to the gaffer

 

[Neville Kneville]

You've lost me. He had him on the bench in case a full back got injured as neither Zaba nor Clichy were available. That's the way it works isn't it? He wasn't there to get experience/get involved/be given a chance.

Not in that way anyway. Practical choice for the team.

If Viera was in charge of the team he would have the same targets and the same methods. If a kid is good enough he plays (Nacho), if he isn't he doesn't.

Garcia. Maffeo is the fullback.

Mate, Nacho isn't 'good enough' he's a potential fucking genius. If the current first team all had to be as good as Nacho at 18, there would just be Aguero & Joe Hart at the club.

That is far to high a standard to set, just to merit a place in the squad.

 

[schfc6]

I'm not talking about 'them' the club, I'm talking about 'them' the managers. I've made this clear many times. Both have been utterly fucking useless in this regard imo & when they have actually used kids it's been too late, not enough, wrong kid wrong time etc etc. Awful. Truly awful.

I don't believe anything you say re our coaches. If you can tell me honestly that they have told you personally that they all believe none of our kids have been good enough to merit bits of time on the pitch, then I won't call you a liar & I'll accept it.

But if that isn't the case, then you are just guessing that the staff agrees with the manager.

And re Barca, look up how many young academy players Pep used, I am right & you are utterly & completely wrong. I don't care which manager debuts them or even at which club in the case of Roberts, evans & Denayer. Just that they get a reasonable crack at it.

I'm going off the fact they are not playing. They are obviously being deemed just not good enough. If you think Pellegrini is 100% resposible for this, you're an idiot. The one stand out EDS player is involved regularly. The rest aren't good enough.
I imagine the next stand out EDS player will graduate to the first team too. That's how it works, the elite make it, the good make careers and the rest made do in the amatures like the rest of us.

This is MANCHESTER City, not Cubs, those deemed good enough get their chance, those don't face reality with the rest of us. Will that be one mans decission, no. It will be a collective.

I suggest you look at Pep's treble winning side, as I say, Pique, Busquets and Pedro were used, they were all 20 plus. Busquets and Pedro in particular were barely used. They had all played senior football numerous times before their Barca debuts.
Fact is, I know exactly what I'm on about, Pep is famed for adapting players in to new roles. Barcelona often use youth, but again facts are, they are not normally 17-17 they are normally 20-23. This is my point, the last crop were no where near the standard required, not my opinion, that of all those involved in the process.

If in 3 years time, it's the same, then you'll be right. At present you're very wrong. It takes longer than a couple of years to produce players of the required ability.

It's time you faced up to the fact that Evans, Cole et al will never make it at the required level for zCity, That won't just be my opinion that will be the opinion of everyone they come across in the game.

 

[Neville Kneville]

You're right...but they will certainly recommend players to the gaffer

Of course, but then he has to act on those recommendations. If he decides not to use them, then there has to be somewhere else they can go to learn football. If they then don't get even 5 mins when they come back, they are effectively learning their trade at Barnsley, not City. Imo, many will then fall by the wayside as regards any hope of becoming a top player.

I think there is & has been a lot more talent in this country than we see, a lot more. In the past I recon the coaching was piss poor, but now especially at City, it's fantastic. But then te kids are just treading water afterwards.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I'm going off the fact they not playing. The one stand out EDS player is involved regularly. The rest aren't good enough.

I suggest you look at Pep's treble winning side, as I say, Pique, Busquets and Pedro were used, they were all 20 plus. Busquets and Pedro in particular were barely used. They had all played senior football numerous times before their Barca debuts.
Fact is, I know exactly what I'm on about, Pep is famed for adapting players in to new roles. Barcelona often use youth, but again facts are, they are not normally 17-17 they are normally 20-23. This is my point, the last crop were no where near the standard required, not my opinion, that of all those involved in the process.

If in 3 years time, it's the same, then you'll be right. At present you're very wrong. It takes longer than a couple of years to produce players of the required ability.

It's time you faced up to the fact that Evans, Cole et al will never make it at the required level for zCity, That won't just be my opinion that will be the opinion of everyone they come across in the game.

I've never said they would make it. Just that they deserved the opportunity to have a go & would have been perfectly able to come on & do so.

You are completely wrong about Pep at Barca. He used about 15-20 academy kids in his time there, most of whom nobody has heard of since but a few we have. They still won stuff & played great football. The idea using kids costs a club, is nonsense made up by people on here.

 

[Phil1]

Nothing's going to change in the next 5 months so it's time to let the season pan out and take stock in the summer. We'll see for ourselves then how good or bad Pep is when it comes to the youngsters.

 

[Cobra]

I'm going off the fact they not playing. The one stand out EDS player is involved regularly. The rest aren't good enough.

I suggest you look at Pep's treble winning side, as I say, Pique, Busquets and Pedro were used, they were all 20 plus. Busquets and Pedro in particular were barely used. They had all played senior football numerous times before their Barca debuts.
Fact is, I know exactly what I'm on about, Pep is famed for adapting players in to new roles. Barcelona often use youth, but again facts are, they are not normally 17-17 they are normally 20-23. This is my point, the last crop were no where near the standard required, not my opinion, that of all those involved in the process.

If in 3 years time, it's the same, then you'll be right. At present you're very wrong. It takes longer than a couple of years to produce players of the required ability.

It's time you faced up to the fact that Evans, Cole et al will never make it at the required level for zCity, That won't just be my opinion that will be the opinion of everyone they come across in the game.

I don't think you can really compare Barca's treble winning squad with our current squad, as they pretty much had a world class player in every position whereas we currently have the likes of Fernando, Delph, Navas, Bony, Mangala and Demichelis playing regularly. There is absolutely no reason why someone like Brandon Barker couldn't have made a dozen sub apperances this season, maybe even starting the odd game in the domestic cups. It might transpire that he isn’t actually good enough, but at least then there will be numerous clubs willing to either sign him or take him on loan.

 

[schfc6]

Garcia. Maffeo is the fullback.

Mate, Nacho isn't 'good enough' he's a potential fucking genius. If the current first team all had to be as good as Nacho at 18, there would just be Aguero & Joe Hart at the club.

That is far to high a standard to set, just to merit a place in the squad.

So you're advocating quantity over quality? I personally much much prefer a Iheanacho every two years than a Horsefield, a Cole and and a Evans.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Not true re Kane mate they used him in the Europa. But I agree with your assessment that England is shit at this on the whole. But us & Chelsea imo are full of riches in youth football & squandering it at a criminal level. But I think it's mainly down to the managers.

On 25 August 2011 Kane made his first appearance for Tottenham Hotspur, starting in the second leg of their Europa League qualification round against Hearts, with Tottenham making changes after winning the first leg 5–0. His debut was a goalless match, although he won a penalty after being fouled by goalkeeper Jamie MacDonald, who then saved the penalty which Kane took himself. He went on to make six appearances in the Europa League that season, scoring his first Tottenham goal in the 4–0 win at Shamrock Rovers on 15 December.

n 29 December, Kane and Tottenham teammate Ryan Mason agreed to join Championship club Millwall on loan from 1 January 2012 until the end of the season.

I thought we were talking about PL but yeah he did have 6 appearance for a grand total of 290 minutes in the EL. Would Spurs have done that in the CL? Probably not.

Not sure if it is squandering because if they are to build that academy to get world class stars, we can expect maybe 1 every 5 seasons. We could get 2 or 3 for the squad. if the rest are bringing in £25-30M a year then we are getting ready made stars for half price.
When others do this, it is sound business, we sell on, its a FFP avoidance scheme. The press want it both ways.

I think we agree though the youth angle in those leagues was a well meaning idea, it is has not worked though. Putting kids in the old Central League and seeing knarled old pros helping them or trying to kill them was certainly a better method than now. Not as good as B teams but as the English world is dead set against that, it is the compromise needed to get back to producing savvy kids.