Discuss Pellegrini...(cont)

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BillyShears said:
adrianr said:
The best teams have things we can't just buy in a transfer window.

Genuine question - what do you think those characteristics are?

Sorry for the late reply chap, I wrote most of this out and had to run for a train before I could finish. Only just booted up the computer again!

At the moment I think we're straddled between two attitudes, which unfortunately doesn't mean the best blend of both. I'll try and avoid too many clichés but some are pretty suitable. I'll also clarify that this for me is very little to do with Pellegrini.

There's the Dortmund or Atleti, hungry, intent on proving themselves against the best (Could possibly put Liverpool in here actually), would run through brick walls for their manager. They know they're ultimately the underdogs, and the resultant lack of pressure can help them play their game.

Then you have the Bayern's, Barca's and Madrids. Establishment clubs with an attitude running throughout the organisation that buys into it whole heartedly. Usually incorporating the most talented players with the intelligence to play smart, not always hard. Understand that with this increase in talent comes the ability to coast, along with many opponents feeling beaten before the match has begun, yet ultimately always with the ability to turn it on and make the extra talent count. Not the sort of clubs to feel out of place facing up against one another in a high profile match. Used to high pressure of expectation, but arrogant enough to carry it. Always accompanied by lots of talk of how proud they are to 'wear the shirt'.

Now we seem to have amassed a group of players, or maybe it's just a club ethos still rooted firmly in that well known phrase I won't repeat too often, that we're still the inferior under dogs. That can be fine, that has it uses. The problem is we're combining this with the big player big talent attitude of winning matches before turning up, coasting too often, relying on talented moments to get us out of poor situations of our own doing rather than fully dominating matches like we could. We're not running through brick walls to prove ourselves but we're not coping with the pressure of expectation either.

People seem to think we're always one or two transfers away from Madrid or Bayern but there's so much more to it. You can't buy attitude, hunger or confidence. Environments for those traits to grow have to be built over time. I think we can rule out the Atletico method until we have slews of academy lads coming through, because we'll often be buying at the top end of the market. But the latter method doesn't come overnight either. I wish we'd ban that bloody phrase dining at the top table from this forum because our players to me don't seem to believe it. Top table players wouldn't have surrendered the title so pathetically the year after winning it. Top table players wouldn't be on course to finish third in the season immediately following that limp surrender (Correct at the time of writing pre-heroic effort from Sunderland). Still having the same problems playing away from home, cup finals, mid season collapse, slow football, lack of belief, fucking Sunderland.

A manager like Mourinho could maybe be the difference in attitude but I still believe with him it's mostly temporary. Maybe the players would have more faith with Pep but I think once the novelty wore off we'd see the same things creeping back in.

It's also hard to lay it fully on injuries when we've seen the same things crop up under two very different managers over the past three/four seasons, all with different injury records. Yes we won the title when we had minimal injuries, but still showed many of the same problems mentioned above (the most notable culminating in the huge gap with six games to go and some minor things that happened during the last game of the season).

TL;DR We have big players who want to be underdogs when they should be monsters. Not something we can necessarily fix with a couple of signings.

Hopefully Pellegrini is the man to show them just how good they can be, because I think it's not unfair to say they're fairly short on delivery for the promise so far.
 
It's his first season in English football stark in contrast to that of Spainish. He will have learnt from his mistakes this season and push on in the next. The squad will be bigger and uglier and more cohesive as a whole unit to the new style. Some shrewd moves to strengthen our weaknesses and I forecast an enjoyable year under the engineer.
 
squirtyflower said:
just shows what fine margins are involved in the 'whole' season when you consider that if Davis Silva's leg was a cm longer and Nasri had shown a touch more composure then we would be sat a point behind with two games in hand
Indeed it does. Without that last second cock-up at Stamford Bridge and if Silva scores and Kompany doesn't slice his clearance to Coutinho, we'd be top with a game in hand over Liverpool at this moment.
 
squirtyflower said:
i would say, at the moment, we are not back in the race, but that could all change within the next two hours

just shows what fine margins are involved in the 'whole' season when you consider that if Davis Silva's leg was a cm longer and Nasri had shown a touch more composure then we would be sat a point behind with two games in hand

Fine margins are what make this league what it is. In the spirit of telling stories about our non City supporting mates - was at a bday party last night and there were about 7 of us watching the Chelsea game on an iPad in the kitchen. At the final whistle to a man they all said "that's why the premier league is the best league in the world and the most difficult to win".

For me it feels like we're back in it because we need only one result to go our way now for it to be back in our hands.

On Pellegrini -he' s been in England for 10 fucking months and already has a trophy and has amassed the kind of points/goals which under normal circumstances would see every single Blue, to a man, singing his praises.
 
cleavers said:
Working with a Liverpool s/t holder this morning, we hadn't spoken football all week, his choice not mine, but he's cacking it pre Norwich, he knows they should win it, but he's no more confident than I am.

Can't see them losing this one now.
If they score first they could easily get a hatful of goals.
 
cleavers said:
Working with a Liverpool s/t holder this morning, we hadn't spoken football all week, his choice not mine, but he's cacking it pre Norwich, he knows they should win it, but he's no more confident than I am.
I'm hoping for an Everton moment where they nick a point at the death. This could well fuck their heads up and be just the fillip the boss needs to lift ours.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
squirtyflower said:
just shows what fine margins are involved in the 'whole' season when you consider that if Davis Silva's leg was a cm longer and Nasri had shown a touch more composure then we would be sat a point behind with two games in hand
Indeed it does. Without that last second cock-up at Stamford Bridge and if Silva scores and Kompany doesn't slice his clearance to Coutinho, we'd be top with a game in hand over Liverpool at this moment.
for once the marginal outcomes have not gone our way
Stamford Bridge, Liverpool, Nasri on Wednesday, offside goal at Villa when we were coasting, two easy chances at home to chelsea before they score

just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes, bit like Steve Mackenzie hitting the post from two yards out in the 81 cup final, that one slip could have led to 98 and Division 2!
 
adrianr said:
Sorry for the late reply chap, I wrote most of this out and had to run for a train before I could finish. Only just booted up the computer again!

At the moment I think we're straddled between two attitudes, which unfortunately doesn't mean the best blend of both. I'll try and avoid too many clichés but some are pretty suitable. I'll also clarify that this for me is very little to do with Pellegrini.

There's the Dortmund or Atleti, hungry, intent on proving themselves against the best (Could possibly put Liverpool in here actually), would run through brick walls for their manager. They know they're ultimately the underdogs, and the resultant lack of pressure can help them play their game.

Then you have the Bayern's, Barca's and Madrids. Establishment clubs with an attitude running throughout the organisation that buys into it whole heartedly. Usually incorporating the most talented players with the intelligence to play smart, not always hard. Understand that with this increase in talent comes the ability to coast, along with many opponents feeling beaten before the match has begun, yet ultimately always with the ability to turn it on and make the extra talent count. Not the sort of clubs to feel out of place facing up against one another in a high profile match. Used to high pressure of expectation, but arrogant enough to carry it. Always accompanied by lots of talk of how proud they are to 'wear the shirt'.

Now we seem to have amassed a group of players, or maybe it's just a club ethos still rooted firmly in that well known phrase I won't repeat too often, that we're still the inferior under dogs. That can be fine, that has it uses. The problem is we're combining this with the big player big talent attitude of winning matches before turning up, coasting too often, relying on talented moments to get us out of poor situations of our own doing rather than fully dominating matches like we could. We're not running through brick walls to prove ourselves but we're not coping with the pressure of expectation either.

People seem to think we're always one or two transfers away from Madrid or Bayern but there's so much more to it. You can't buy attitude, hunger or confidence. Environments for those traits to grow have to be built over time. I think we can rule out the Atletico method until we have slews of academy lads coming through, because we'll often be buying at the top end of the market. But the latter method doesn't come overnight either. I wish we'd ban that bloody phrase dining at the top table from this forum because our players to me don't seem to believe it. Top table players wouldn't have surrendered the title so pathetically the year after winning it. Top table players wouldn't be on course to finish third in the season immediately following that limp surrender (Correct at the time of writing pre-heroic effort from Sunderland). Still having the same problems playing away from home, cup finals, mid season collapse, slow football, lack of belief, fucking Sunderland.

A manager like Mourinho could maybe be the difference in attitude but I still believe with him it's mostly temporary. Maybe the players would have more faith with Pep but I think once the novelty wore off we'd see the same things creeping back in.

It's also hard to lay it fully on injuries when we've seen the same things crop up under two very different managers over the past three/four seasons, all with different injury records. Yes we won the title when we had minimal injuries, but still showed many of the same problems mentioned above (the most notable culminating in the huge gap with six games to go and some minor things that happened during the last game of the season).

TL;DR We have big players who want to be underdogs when they should be monsters. Not something we can necessarily fix with a couple of signings.

Hopefully Pellegrini is the man to show them just how good they can be, because I think it's not unfair to say they're fairly short on delivery for the promise so far.

No worries mate - that's a cracking post. Honestly I think you're harsh in certain parts and I don't agree with all of it but I completely understand the point you're trying to make.

I said something similar the other day - for me right now we're more PSG than we are Bayern. We have a collection of expensive top players who came here with their talent already validated by the watching world. It's a tough thing to say but when you come to a club like City or PSG in those circumstances, there's no fear. You're not afraid of the club's history, you're not driven by the thought of what players before you had done. It's actually IMO part of what "holistic" is about. We need players who see City as a step up in their career. Players who will be a bit nervous stepping onto the pitch for the first time because of the expectation. I love Nasri but he for me epitomises the pitfalls of being a "nouve riche" club. At an "established" club he wouldn't be half as inconsistent because he wouldn't dare.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
squirtyflower said:
just shows what fine margins are involved in the 'whole' season when you consider that if Davis Silva's leg was a cm longer and Nasri had shown a touch more composure then we would be sat a point behind with two games in hand
Indeed it does. Without that last second cock-up at Stamford Bridge and if Silva scores and Kompany doesn't slice his clearance to Coutinho, we'd be top with a game in hand over Liverpool at this moment.

It's torturing me every night, mate. So many 'what ifs' which don't seem to have gone our way. The biggest of all to me is that if silva hadn't cut his toe nails last Sunday morning we'd be practically fucking champions by now. I know that's how it goes, but if we don't win the league that travesty result at anfield was the turning point.

I still think Liverpool will Lose a game, even if it isn't today. I think they are going to stumble.

It's like an epic Grand National, this, with four fences left. I love it.
 
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