Discuss Pellegrini...(cont)

[taconinja]

Yours also had nothing of substance to back it up, which is my point.

I have no problem with people giving their opinion on something, I don't think anything needs backing up to any degree more than this let alone by poorly using statistics.

Your point is you don't like the player. Period. That's the entirety of your point and you don't give a single fuck as to anything else right now. Good for you. Who played the pass that released Toure for his goal? I don't know! The player was hiding too effectively to tell.

Are you sure?

Because it feels to me that my point is that people misuse statistics and don't really understand them. But now I'm not sure because you obviously have a better understanding of what I'm thinking than me.

I was thinking of burgers for tea. Do you think I'll fancy it later?

Nice attempt at a dodge. You've been reductive to the point of being ludicrous. Instead of saying something along the lines of "Statistics without context mean less. How about you expand on that?" which would frankly have troubled you little, you start with hostility and insults.<br /><br />-- Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:48 am --<br /><br />You know what? Fuck this. Pardon me for feeling positive about the club, the manager, and the players after a very good, very professional display. I forget we can't be happy unless we're either calling people out to prove our cock is bigger than someone with whom we disagree and/or grinding an axe against our least favorite players/staff members.

I'll check back in a week or two hopefully to celebrate a championship.

 

[Damocles]

Your point is you don't like the player. Period. That's the entirety of your point and you don't give a single fuck as to anything else right now. Good for you. Who played the pass that released Toure for his goal? I don't know! The player was hiding too effectively to tell.

Are you sure?

Because it feels to me that my point is that people misuse statistics and don't really understand them. But now I'm not sure because you obviously have a better understanding of what I'm thinking than me.

I was thinking of burgers for tea. Do you think I'll fancy it later?

Nice attempt at a dodge. You've been reductive to the point of being ludicrous. Instead of saying something along the lines of "Statistics without context mean less. How about you expand on that?" which would frankly have troubled you little, you start with hostility and insults.

Why don't you go back and read this and see who was insulting and hostile to who?

You keep using that word reductive and I'm not sure you see the irony in it.

 

[Anonymous]

He must not play Nasri, unless as a substitute to chase the game. Nasri does not have the stones for this Everton match and again did his trying to hide the best he could act at Palace.

Silva in for Nasri.

Fernandinho back in for Garcia, everything else will hopefully slot into place.

Notwithstanding the fact that he was the only player on the park other than Yaya who could've played the pass to Yaya for his goal, I think it's totally wide of the mark to suggest he went hiding at Palace. I'll repeat it until i'm Blue in the face ... Nasri's not a winger no matter how many times he's shoehorned into that position because he's the best option for that position. At Arsenal he was behind Cesc, and at City he's behind Yaya for his best position. But his quality is such that Wenger, Mancini, and Pellegrini have been happy to play him in a position which doesn't see the best of him because even not at his best he's good enough within the context of our style of play.

That btw isn't a denial of Nasri's mental fragility at times, or of his perceived weaknesses as a player. Like most players he has weaknesses, and like a lot of "flair" players those weaknesses become more pronounced when he's having a bad day because he doesn't "put a shift in" in the manner in which a workhorse like Milner will.

As for Everton. There's literally ZERO chance Pellegrini will drop him. Whether that's right or wrong the result will bare out.

 

[teddykgb]

He must not play Nasri, unless as a substitute to chase the game. Nasri does not have the stones for this Everton match and again did his trying to hide the best he could act at Palace.

Silva in for Nasri.

Fernandinho back in for Garcia, everything else will hopefully slot into place.

Notwithstanding the fact that he was the only player on the park other than Yaya who could've played the pass to Yaya for his goal, I think it's totally wide of the mark to suggest he went hiding at Palace. I'll repeat it until i'm Blue in the face ... Nasri's not a winger no matter how many times he's shoehorned into that position because he's the best option for that position. At Arsenal he was behind Cesc, and at City he's behind Yaya for his best position. But his quality is such that Wenger, Mancini, and Pellegrini have been happy to play him in a position which doesn't see the best of him because even not at his best he's good enough within the context of our style of play.

That btw isn't a denial of Nasri's mental fragility at times, or of his perceived weaknesses as a player. Like most players he has weaknesses, and like a lot of "flair" players those weaknesses become more pronounced when he's having a bad day because he doesn't "put a shift in" in the manner in which a workhorse like Milner will.

As for Everton. There's literally ZERO chance Pellegrini will drop him. Whether that's right or wrong the result will bare out.

We really don't deploy him as a winger, though. Especially under Pellegrini, he's more of a CAM in a 4-2-2-2 and is hardly hugging the touch line. I agree with much of what you said, but I don't think it's because he's particularly out of position. His managers have seen enough benefit to his play to be worth whatever gaps are there. I don't know that Nasri would be better in yaya's position, I think he's just not a workhorse in more ways than one.

 

[Jacks77]

What a chance we just got from yesterday. Did not believe Chelsea B was getting anything from the Pool game especially when I saw the line ups.
But Mourinho is a huge manager also a big bad troll but what a manager.:)

As for Pellegrini now he has to deliver the title no question about that. This is it, 3 games, not easy games but Everton has their problems with some injuries, also in some kind of bad form recently while Villa/WHU at home shouldnt be a problem ever especially as they are now pretty much safe of relegation, Villa maybe should get a point or 3 for it at the weekend vs Hull at home for being totally safe.

Earlier vs Pool loss, Sunderland draw we threw away a huge chance to win the title now we are back again but we cant throw this chance it again. this is is, two years ago after Arsenal fuck up we had no more chance to make mistakes now we dont have more chance to mistakes, both Chelsea/Pool will win two games and it ends with Pool winning it with 84 points or we win it on GD on 84 points too.

There wont more twists and turns of course I did not belive there would like yesterday:) but ow its pretty clear that we win 3 games and the league or we fuck it up again and wont even deserve it.

We need fantstic mentality and this match day yesterday had to give us extremely lot in mental power to go to Goodison, play well and get the fucking 3 points. Of course its a banana skin game its like that in last few years all the time but this is the time to come over on it and get the result the Champions can get when they really need. And we really need now.

Beat Everton and Chelsea and Pool will be under immense pressure vs Cardiff/Palace later on...
Fuck up Everton game and there will such a motivation for them to rip apart Cardiff and Palace.
(I bet we would have seen different City yesterday if Pool won the game before us...)

What a chance we just got, now go and get the best out of it and win the league. No way of accepting performances like we dont work hard, dont rack back when needed, everyone needs to be top of their game, Pelle has to get it right too, tactics must be spot on, winner mentality has to come trough. We have the quality easily vs next 3 teams, handle each of them as a big cup final raise our games and rip them apart.

Tactically I would change tho, maybe I like to risk less, but without Silva I would want a lot more attacking role to Yaya to play behind the striker as any moment he can give a great assist, a great ball to wide players to run into space, also can get goals on his own with running into the box or from long shots. But if he does that from his original deeper positions we can be very open in the middle thats why I would go with Garcia/Fernandinho duo also it would give more license for Fernandinho too to go forawrd and Garcia would still give us enough help int the middle and also for the defenders.
And Yaya could 100% care about the attacks thats his strong point this year he is on form.

Of course with this only 1 place would be for strikers, as we need two wide players especially helping out vs Coleman/Baines they like to attack and can cause problems if we dont cover them enough.
If Silva is available it all changes as he could be playing behind striker but still if he can play I wouldnt use two strikers vs Everton. Maybe only if they have both jagielka/Distin out as that would be a big miss for Everton their best CB duo out of the game...

Well we will see how Pellegrini prepares for the game, hopefully no fucking injury in this week trainings until the game, we need to be calm but rutless vs Everton. They are a good side, rarely lose at home vs top sides, not gonna be any easy walk but we should win there in this situation.

 

[Anonymous]

He must not play Nasri, unless as a substitute to chase the game. Nasri does not have the stones for this Everton match and again did his trying to hide the best he could act at Palace.

Silva in for Nasri.

Fernandinho back in for Garcia, everything else will hopefully slot into place.

Notwithstanding the fact that he was the only player on the park other than Yaya who could've played the pass to Yaya for his goal, I think it's totally wide of the mark to suggest he went hiding at Palace. I'll repeat it until i'm Blue in the face ... Nasri's not a winger no matter how many times he's shoehorned into that position because he's the best option for that position. At Arsenal he was behind Cesc, and at City he's behind Yaya for his best position. But his quality is such that Wenger, Mancini, and Pellegrini have been happy to play him in a position which doesn't see the best of him because even not at his best he's good enough within the context of our style of play.

That btw isn't a denial of Nasri's mental fragility at times, or of his perceived weaknesses as a player. Like most players he has weaknesses, and like a lot of "flair" players those weaknesses become more pronounced when he's having a bad day because he doesn't "put a shift in" in the manner in which a workhorse like Milner will.

As for Everton. There's literally ZERO chance Pellegrini will drop him. Whether that's right or wrong the result will bare out.

We really don't deploy him as a winger, though. Especially under Pellegrini, he's more of a CAM in a 4-2-2-2 and is hardly hugging the touch line. I agree with much of what you said, but I don't think it's because he's particularly out of position. His managers have seen enough benefit to his play to be worth whatever gaps are there. I don't know that Nasri would be better in yaya's position, I think he's just not a workhorse in more ways than one.

You're right ... he isn't deployed as a winger - what I mean is that his defensive duties require him to track back on the wing, which means when the ball breaks to him in that position he is never going to burst past the opposing winger/full back and then whip a cross in. He's going to cut inside, but in doing so he's accused of slowing the play down. Well that's his game. Play him centrally, and as I say, he'll play those telling balls which Yaya and Silva play and he'll be much more effective.

Nasri rarely loses the football. His upper body strength is very good as his ability to shield the ball and extricate himself from a group of players or make a pass when surrounded. Those qualities are far better suited centrally. Yes he's not a tackler, but then neither is Yaya.

Again i'm not advocating that Nasri replace Yaya, just that Nasri's being pretty underrated at the moment.

EDIT:

Just want to add. For as long as I've watched football it's been populated by flair players who seemingly only have 8 or 9 out of 10 games or 5 or 6 out of 10. I accept that that can be very frustrating but he's not unique in that sense and certainly doesn't mean he's not good enough for our team.

 

[without a dream]

Notwithstanding the fact that he was the only player on the park other than Yaya who could've played the pass to Yaya for his goal, I think it's totally wide of the mark to suggest he went hiding at Palace. I'll repeat it until i'm Blue in the face ... Nasri's not a winger no matter how many times he's shoehorned into that position because he's the best option for that position. At Arsenal he was behind Cesc, and at City he's behind Yaya for his best position. But his quality is such that Wenger, Mancini, and Pellegrini have been happy to play him in a position which doesn't see the best of him because even not at his best he's good enough within the context of our style of play.

That btw isn't a denial of Nasri's mental fragility at times, or of his perceived weaknesses as a player. Like most players he has weaknesses, and like a lot of "flair" players those weaknesses become more pronounced when he's having a bad day because he doesn't "put a shift in" in the manner in which a workhorse like Milner will.

As for Everton. There's literally ZERO chance Pellegrini will drop him. Whether that's right or wrong the result will bare out.

We really don't deploy him as a winger, though. Especially under Pellegrini, he's more of a CAM in a 4-2-2-2 and is hardly hugging the touch line. I agree with much of what you said, but I don't think it's because he's particularly out of position. His managers have seen enough benefit to his play to be worth whatever gaps are there. I don't know that Nasri would be better in yaya's position, I think he's just not a workhorse in more ways than one.

You're right ... he isn't deployed as a winger - what I mean is that his defensive duties require him to track back on the wing, which means when the ball breaks to him in that position he is never going to burst past the opposing winger/full back and then whip a cross in. He's going to cut inside, but in doing so he's accused of slowing the play down. Well that's his game. Play him centrally, and as I say, he'll play those telling balls which Yaya and Silva play and he'll be much more effective.

Nasri rarely loses the football. His upper body strength is very good as his ability to shield the ball and extricate himself from a group of players or make a pass when surrounded. Those qualities are far better suited centrally. Yes he's not a tackler, but then neither is Yaya.

Again i'm not advocating that Nasri replace Yaya, just that Nasri's being pretty underrated at the moment.

The issue for Nasri is that when Silva is out we expect him to take up some of the creative slack. He rarely does and continues in ball retention mode, which is great when we've got Silva to be more penetrative but he really needs to step up when he's meant to be the creative force. Silva doesn't have a problem doing this when deployed wide and cutting in and Nasri is good enough technically to do the same, he's just not got it upstairs imo.

 

[Anonymous]

The issue for Nasri is that when Silva is out we expect him to take up some of the creative slack. He rarely does and continues in ball retention mode, which is great when we've got Silva to be more penetrative but he really needs to step up when he's meant to be the creative force. Silva doesn't have a problem doing this when deployed wide and cutting in and Nasri is good enough technically to do the same, he's just not got it upstairs imo.

To be fair mate, earlier in the season when Silva was out everyone was raving about how good Nasri had been in his absence. Seems to be a lot of revisionism going on (not you particularly) about just what kind of a season he has had. For me he has absolutely earned a new contract. He has played some of his best football since he joined the club this season. Again, yesterday without Silva it was Nasri's pass which Yaya ran onto to score. It was Nasri's little ball into Aguero that put him through earlier in the match too.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Pellegrini has been given another chance to deliver now thanks mainly to his enemy Mourinho.

He must deliver now to be thought of as a great manager. If he doesn't deliver from here he may always be the nearly man.

I think he can deliver.......

 

[without a dream]

The issue for Nasri is that when Silva is out we expect him to take up some of the creative slack. He rarely does and continues in ball retention mode, which is great when we've got Silva to be more penetrative but he really needs to step up when he's meant to be the creative force. Silva doesn't have a problem doing this when deployed wide and cutting in and Nasri is good enough technically to do the same, he's just not got it upstairs imo.

To be fair mate, earlier in the season when Silva was out everyone was raving about how good Nasri had been in his absence. Seems to be a lot of revisionism going on (not you particularly) about just what kind of a season he has had. For me he has absolutely earned a new contract. He has played some of his best football since he joined the club this season. Again, yesterday without Silva it was Nasri's pass which Yaya ran onto to score. It was Nasri's little ball into Aguero that put him through earlier in the match too.

I would have been one of the one's raving :) probably about him finally stepping up to his promise, unfortunately he seems to have reverted to type. I'd give him a new contract too, hopefully on the Ferran/Txixi bonus based deals. As much as anything it's stupidity to let valuable players run contracts down and I think he does have the talent, I wouldn't be upset to see him replaced in the starting 11 next year though.