Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

[OB1]

Negredo was outstanding because he bullied their back line. He moves much better than Dzeko and he gives us an outlet ball too. He won his aeriel battles better than Dzeko does and that allowed Aguero to run them ragged. Tell you something about Aguero. We are only now seeing the best of him. He's had fitness battles since he's arrived and it's been stop-start. He's got what it takes to be the best striker in the world. What a performance.

Yes, we can beat Bayern. They struggled with us in that friendly when we got the passing game going. If Pellegrini can keep that unity and fight, and get the best from the whole squad we are up there at that level now. I'd be quite happy with 3 points from the two games with them, and I think we will get them if we can keep everybody fit.

I don't always agree with you, Dave, but I do think both of the quoted statements are absolutely spot on. Negredo is a fantastic player, a great acquisition who brings several characteristics that (and this is the key) significantly enhance the contributions of other key players (Aguero, Kolarov, Navas, Nasri, for example, all benefit from his presence, in different ways).

I said elsewhere on here last night that Aguero, great though he's been for us, could be unbelievable this season - 30 in the league and 40 overall is what I think he's capable of, and if he stays fit I reckon he might just hit those heights.

As for the match v Bayern, no reason why we can't get a result. Sure, they're a top team and they may well turn us over - there'd be no shame in that - but we can definitely get a result, and I think, with our quality, that our attitude should be to expect a result. The staff and players will, so we should too.

Negredo is like an English Bull with the touch of a Spanish dancer.

I seem to recall that before Messi's rise and rise, Aguero was tipped as someone who could become the world's best player... BTW, loved how ecstatic he was after scoring his first goal.<br /><br />-- Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:01 pm --<br /><br />

No-one can deny that the derby was a personal triumph of cosmic proportions for Pellegrini. In July he simply said he didn't think he would have any problems “adapting” to the PL or to English football, but this was to be his introduction – a flat-out, full-blooded, typical EPL, Manchester derby. The lesson would be that Moyes was the only worthy successor to SAF, that Pellegrini had a long “learning curve” ahead of him and the fancy dans who had arrived this summer were not ready for such an “experience”, even if they would ever be good enough. Pellegrini's answer was ruthlessly contemptuous – the road to success is not to be contaminated by either the PL or English ideas of how football should be played. Here was a form of the game based on athleticism, pace, power, precision, imagination, subtlety, instinct etc etc etc. The three fancy dans who played – all of whom said they had wanted to come to City to advance their careers and win trophies – ripped into United with an appetite rivalled only by that of their team mates. They had clearly meant what they said, were very ready indeed for this “experience” and had no more intention of “adapting” to English football than the manager has. What followed the referees first whistle was so exhilarating that I could not believe my eyes, to the point that I have delayed posting for nearly 24 hours, firstly to sober up after the (too many) celebratory single malts downed in our house last night, and secondly to confirm that I did see what I thought I saw!

In the cold light of day thoughts must be of the future, rather than the past, and we must now show that we can reproduce this form away from home, beginning at Villa park on Saturday, and we must put a run of excellent performances together to scare the living daylights out of our competitors. And our group in the CL could be really interesting if we can play like that against Bayern! My only slight concern is that we destroyed, not one of the real CL contenders, but a faded, clueless bunch of has-beens and never-will-bes, managed by a “good” manager without a clue of how to stop the sky blue tide. But what a performance! What an unforgettable afternoon!

Almost poetic, the prose that is: no almost about the performance.

 

[taconinja]

No-one can deny that the derby was a personal triumph of cosmic proportions for Pellegrini. In July he simply said he didn't think he would have any problems “adapting” to the PL or to English football, but this was to be his introduction – a flat-out, full-blooded, typical EPL, Manchester derby. The lesson would be that Moyes was the only worthy successor to SAF, that Pellegrini had a long “learning curve” ahead of him and the fancy dans who had arrived this summer were not ready for such an “experience”, even if they would ever be good enough. Pellegrini's answer was ruthlessly contemptuous – the road to success is not to be contaminated by either the PL or English ideas of how football should be played. Here was a form of the game based on athleticism, pace, power, precision, imagination, subtlety, instinct etc etc etc. The three fancy dans who played – all of whom said they had wanted to come to City to advance their careers and win trophies – ripped into United with an appetite rivalled only by that of their team mates. They had clearly meant what they said, were very ready indeed for this “experience” and had no more intention of “adapting” to English football than the manager has. What followed the referees first whistle was so exhilarating that I could not believe my eyes, to the point that I have delayed posting for nearly 24 hours, firstly to sober up after the (too many) celebratory single malts downed in our house last night, and secondly to confirm that I did see what I thought I saw!

In the cold light of day thoughts must be of the future, rather than the past, and we must now show that we can reproduce this form away from home, beginning at Villa park on Saturday, and we must put a run of excellent performances together to scare the living daylights out of our competitors. And our group in the CL could be really interesting if we can play like that against Bayern! My only slight concern is that we destroyed, not one of the real CL contenders, but a faded, clueless bunch of has-beens and never-will-bes, managed by a “good” manager without a clue of how to stop the sky blue tide. But what a performance! What an unforgettable afternoon!

My hope is that this is the shot of confidence the squad needs to push on. Look what beating us did for United last year. I hope for a similar effect to us.

Negredo was outstanding because he bullied their back line. He moves much better than Dzeko and he gives us an outlet ball too. He won his aeriel battles better than Dzeko does and that allowed Aguero to run them ragged. Tell you something about Aguero. We are only now seeing the best of him. He's had fitness battles since he's arrived and it's been stop-start. He's got what it takes to be the best striker in the world. What a performance.

Yes, we can beat Bayern. They struggled with us in that friendly when we got the passing game going. If Pellegrini can keep that unity and fight, and get the best from the whole squad we are up there at that level now. I'd be quite happy with 3 points from the two games with them, and I think we will get them if we can keep everybody fit.

I don't always agree with you, Dave, but I do think both of the quoted statements are absolutely spot on. Negredo is a fantastic player, a great acquisition who brings several characteristics that (and this is the key) significantly enhance the contributions of other key players (Aguero, Kolarov, Navas, Nasri, for example, all benefit from his presence, in different ways).

I said elsewhere on here last night that Aguero, great though he's been for us, could be unbelievable this season - 30 in the league and 40 overall is what I think he's capable of, and if he stays fit I reckon he might just hit those heights.

As for the match v Bayern, no reason why we can't get a result. Sure, they're a top team and they may well turn us over - there'd be no shame in that - but we can definitely get a result, and I think, with our quality, that our attitude should be to expect a result. The staff and players will, so we should too.

Negredo is like an English Bull with the touch of a Spanish dancer.

I seem to recall that before Messi's rise and rise, Aguero was tipped as someone who could become the world's best player... BTW, loved how ecstatic he was after scoring his first goal.

The intelligence of play Negredo displayed was wonderful. Look at his assist to Aguero. Nasri had the ball and instead of staying static and hoping Nasri could pull off some magic and get him the ball, he saw the space Nasri could put the ball into and went there. Then he put the ball into the space he had just vacated hoping Aguero had the intelligence to run into that space as the defenders had been dragged out of position. Aguero did. All three players showed lovely footballing intelligence and the two forwards moved without the ball. I banged on all last season about Nasri, Silva, and Toure needing players to move without the ball to generate chances. I honestly feel vindicated by yesterday's display.

 

[CityPar]

One swallow does not a summer make and all that!!
There were some pretty impressive derby and other big results under the previous manager too.

However - not to be mealy mouthed about yesterday - the improvement in positioning, thinking and pace in Kolorov was striking; as was the confidence and eagerness of Nasri. If these are directly attribuable to the new caoch then credit where credit is due. Going to take more than a derby performance though - but certainly very encouraging on a team and micro level yesterday.

This.

That said the first 60 minutes yesterday was simply breathtaking.
We made them look worse than Newcastle.
If our players can keep that level of desire and hunger when playing the 'smaller' teams away from home then we are a potential serious force to reckoned
with. Out of the next 7 games we have - 4 are away from home. We will know for sure either way after that.

These sentiments do it for me. Yesterday was colossal but in some respects easier to achieve given that no-one needs to be motivated for these games. The real proof in the pudding will be if we can carry this on and win away to Villa and do Everton who remain unbeaten. I have no doubts we'll win at home and very well on occasion. But it's our away form that looks dicey and will determine more than anything where we end up this year........

 

[Anonymous]

This on Bayern/Pep's drubbing of Schalke this weekend.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/23/bayern-munich-schalke-improvement-humble?CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theguardian.com/football/blo ... CMP=twt_gu</a>

Fifteen minutes into Bayern Munich's toughest Bundesliga match of the season thus far, a good number of fears about Pep Guardiola's new regime were being realised. The visitors looked blunt in attack, muddled in midfield and vulnerable at the back. Schalke, aware that the high but narrow position of Bayern's full-backs Rafinha and Alaba left space to attack them down the flanks, were having the better of the champions in the Veltins-Arena. In the centre, Philipp Lahm was more Javi (García) than Xavi – sloppy on the ball, dispossessed by Kevin-Prince Boateng, who forced a save from Manuel Neuer.

Schalke's manager, Jens Keller, was sensing that this could be his day. The Royal Blues had lost their last five league games against the Bavarians, yet here they were, on their way to a tactically well-engineered win that would put them on the map as title contenders and deliver Keller, the Pep-Slayer™, a truckload of credibility.

But then it was all over. A corner from Arjen Robben found the unmarked Bastian Schweinsteiger in the box – his marker, Boateng, had been blocked off the ball – and Atsuto Uchida, defending on the line for Schalke, couldn't keep out the header. A minute later, David Alaba crossed to Mario Mandzukic, who made it 2-0 with another downward header. That double hit didn't just decide the result, it delineated precisely where Schalke's match ended and Bayern's started. Those promising early moments and the unwavering support from the crowd provided the only solace for the home team after a 4-0 defeat that Keller called a "drubbing", Schalke's heaviest at home in 32 years.

For Guardiola on the other hand, it was much more than the biggest win of his reign. "It was our best game," said the Catalan, "I don't know if it was a small or a little step, but it was a step forward." It felt more like giant leap. Schalke just zombied through the second half, transfixed by Bayern's stupendous confidence in possession. Guardiola denied it later ("There is no perfect game") but his side were very much flirting with perfection in minutes 20 to 90.

They were scarily dominant, in complete control of space, time, the ball and their opponents. Like Spain and Barcelona at their very best, Bayern didn't even afford Schalke the opportunity to foul them – they were always three steps ahead and appeared to be playing with four extra men in midfield. A four-goal margin (with Ribéry and Pizarro also scoring) didn't begin to do justice to a gulf in class so wide it threatened to devour the entire city of Gelsenkirchen.

"You are 2-0 down and don't stop running after the ball like an idiot, that's demotivating," sighed the Schalke left-back Denis Aogo. "We didn't lose against any team today but against the best team in the world," said Boateng. That verdict was self-serving, of course, but it didn't feel too far off the mark.

Bayern's supreme performance brought to mind 11 Freunde's "Breaking Pep" August issue cover that had cast the Bayern coach as football's Walter White: after much tinkering in the (training) lab, a winning formula is beginning to produce rather intoxicating stuff. The two main ingredients – order and flexibility – are mundane enough but it's all in the mixture ratio. In possession, Bayern line up in four lines with two centre-backs, the full-backs pushed up alongside the deep-lying midfielder, four attacking midfielders and a striker. The three central midfielders constantly switch positions, and the wide players are encouraged to move inside to create a funnel of pressure in the middle. Bayern pass the ball more than ever before but as Süddeutsche Zeitung noted, the passes are being made in more congested space. Losing the ball high up the pitch is almost a part of the system, wrote the paper, since it allows Bayern to press high up and win the ball back in the most dangerous positions.

Saturday showed that the players have begun to buy into this change, after some initial resistance. Bigger tests against better opposition will be needed before one can be sure that it works against the best sides in Europe (and Borussia Dortmund) but you can sense that the team is finding its feet under Guardiola's new system. Crucially, the manager has also adapted his tactics to the realities on the ground. "I have learned that the most important thing is to control the counter-attacks, because every loss of possession is a counter-attack in the Bundesliga," he explained. Such is the importance of the counter that he has taken to calling Germany "Konterland".

Depending on the exact position of the ball, his Bayern team alternate between counter-pressing and closing down spaces in midfield. Both take plenty of practice as well as intelligence from the players. The Schalke game felt so remarkable because it suggested, for the first time, that Guardiola and his team could evolve into something very special – not diminish each other, as the fear had been a few weeks earlier.

The extent of the progress – and its pace – has been frightening.

Absolutely mouth watering the prospect of City/Bayern Pellegrini/Pep. Both teams evolving under new managers. Both beginning to look like dominant players in their respective leagues. Can our midfield cope with theirs. Can their back four cope with our front four.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

This comment could apply to England and City's first few games:

"I have learned that the most important thing is to control the counter-attacks, because every loss of possession is a counter-attack in the Bundesliga," he explained.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

I just wished yesterday that we'd have really gone for the jugular at 4-0....

I hope we can reproduce these type of performances away from home starting next week.

 

[taconinja]

I just wished yesterday that we'd have really gone for the jugular at 4-0....

I hope we can reproduce these type of performances away from home starting next week.

I said it in the post-match thread and I think it bears repeating. If taking your foot off the gas slightly and shepherding the opposition to a 4-1 defeat keeps Kompany and others from being injured, I'll be okay with that outcome.

 

[adrianr]

I'll still be amazed if we beat Bayern, and I'd be very happy with a draw. We shouldn't be too quick to raise our expectations to beating Bayern levels, because they're the best team in Europe. Yes they have a new manager, but so do we. They still have the majority of a team that won the Champions League, very convincingly too.

Beating CSKA away would be a much better and achievable short term CL target. In fact picking up 6 points off them and beating Plzen at home would be fantastic, regardless of results against Bayern.

 

[samharris]

I just wished yesterday that we'd have really gone for the jugular at 4-0....

I hope we can reproduce these type of performances away from home starting next week.

4-1 is humiliating enough for them pal.. thats enough for them to think of a possible comeback but too much to achieve one..

Its a right teasing scoreline tbh..the fact we afforded to ease off was brilliant and showed just how in control we were...

 

[Anonymous]

I'll still be amazed if we beat Bayern, and I'd be very happy with a draw. We shouldn't be too quick to raise our expectations to beating Bayern levels, because they're the best team in Europe. Yes they have a new manager, but so do we. They still have the majority of a team that won the Champions League, very convincingly too.

Beating CSKA away would be a much better and achievable short term CL target. In fact picking up 6 points off them and beating Plzen at home would be fantastic, regardless of results against Bayern.

I'm not worried by raised expectations ... particularly in light of posts along the lines of "we'll struggle to finish in the top 4 this season" ... I think expectations needed to be raised ... ;)