Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

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MillionDollarDream said:
Are our players over training? I keep hearing about our players on tired legs, both preseason and during the season.

I think that's just an excuse if you ask me mate, no pro player can be tired so early on in the season !

How can you be tired playing Bayern anyway? The excitement of the occasion would get me through such a game!

Losing will mentally tire the players out, that's why it would be an absolute nightmare if lost on Saturday going into a two week International break, by the time the players are all back we are straight into the next game.

Not good for Manuels preparation.
 
mancity1 said:
Jumanji said:
cleavers said:
Well I for one am grateful for JMW's analysis, and links, thanks.

I came out of the ground last night not knowing if we'd seen the best team I have ever seen beat us, and that this was the reason we looked so bad, or whether we were just that bloody poor, and made them look better than they were.

Having seen the graphs and analysis, I'm now more convinced than ever that it was our failings that contributed most, and Bayern benefitted from a damn poor showing from us. How we kept it to 1-3 I'm still not sure, and I'll bet Bayern felt the same way when they got on the plane. It was an embarrasing performance, simple as that.
No question we made them look dynamite, mainly due to tactics and goal gifting. They get harder games against much weaker Bundesliga teams.



When we go behind we don't have the fortitude to get back into the contest..

This has been an issue for a long time. How many games where we go behind do we actually go on to draw let alone win?

When we went 3-2 down at Villa and 2-1 down at Cardiff you just knew we wouldn't get anything from the games.

It's like the players think "oh shit what do we do now?"
 
tiggsywiggsywoo said:
mancity1 said:
Jumanji said:
No question we made them look dynamite, mainly due to tactics and goal gifting. They get harder games against much weaker Bundesliga teams.

The mindset of our players has been off the boil this season.

When we go behind we don't have the fortitude to get back into the contest.

Its nothing to do with the way we are set up , it's got more to do with what is in the players head.

We will know we are an improving side when we react well to adversity.

Thats when Carlos Teves stepped in. I believe Negrado can do the same job. Its not an holistic approach, its not a game plan, its known as having a pair of bollocks.

Spot on tww and I hope Negredo's pair are that of a porn star.

I like Dzeko much to many a schigrin on here but he doesn't have the fear factor that the beast at least appears to possess from what I have seen of him.

In short he is as soft as a baby's backside and a bit of a sook when things go wrong for him.

Let's unleash the beast against Everton from the outset and see where it take us.

Put a mo on him and its lock up your daughters time (LOL).
 
sam-caddick said:
MillionDollarDream said:
Are our players over training? I keep hearing about our players on tired legs, both preseason and during the season.

I think that's just an excuse if you ask me mate, no pro player can be tired so early on in the season !

How can you be tired playing Bayern anyway? The excitement of the occasion would get me through such a game!

Losing will mentally tire the players out, that's why it would be an absolute nightmare if lost on Saturday going into a two week International break, by the time the players are all back we are straight into the next game.

Not good for Manuels preparation.
Conversely sometimes the harder the challenge the better the performance the next 6 games are all winnable, we are much better than we have been playing, I have confidence that the disaster of Wednesday night will actually done us some good, the pressure is now on the manager and the team to perform like we know they can
 
sam-caddick said:
The cookie monster said:
Everton H
West Ham A
Cska A
Chelsea A
Newcastle A

Tough 5 them pal..

Wow, I can see us getting nothing away to West Ham and Chelsea, maybe two points from two draws, but not wins.

Tough times ahead for the team.

It's far worse than our first 5 fixtures that's for sure
We need to take min of 7 points out of them 3 prem fixtures
 
taconinja said:
BillyShears said:
taconinja said:
Truth is that different jobs require different skill sets. I don't know if he has skill set to manage a top team consistently.

Depends on what the overachievement is IMO ... taking Blackburn to sixth in the PL with a limited set of players is a far cry from regularly taking teams to the quarter finals of the CL, after qualifying for said competition. I just don't think it's in the least bit rational to think Pellegrini doesn't have the skill set required to be highly successful at City.
Sorry for the late response. Been busy with work etc. since making that comment.

It's quite possible he does. His specialty might be motivating teams without superstars. He might have everything it takes to succeed. So far we don't have enough to say for sure. I don't blame anyone for worrying though.

As a number of posters on here have all ready asked the question: Is Pelle 'The Chilean David Moyes?'
 
What surprised and disappointed me about Pellegrini's actions against Bayern was the lack of action. It seemed obvious to everyone we we're being overrun in midfield. Obviously making a substitution in first half is not normal, but we could have adapted our formation with what we had on the pitch.

To sure up the midfield he could have set up a 4-3-3, like so:

---------Fernandinho
---------Yaya - Nasri
Navas/Aguero ----- Aguero/Navas
------------Dzeko-----------------

PSG has the same problem we have; both Cavani and Ibrahimovic want play time. Yet I watched a game recently where they changed their lineup from two forwards to 4-3-3 with Cavani on the right wing. They dominated midfield completely, something they normally do not against decent opposition.

I am still wondering why Pellegrini took no action seeing we got completely dominated in midfield. In retrospect I also question the starting lineup. Given it was Bayern we were playing and not Cardiff, a sligthly more defensive lineup could have benefitted us. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but the observation stands.

Zab - VK - Nastasic - Clichy
-------------Fernandinho-----
---------Yaya-----Milner-------
Navas------------Silva/Nasri
----------Negredo--------------

My disappointment was more with Pellegrini and less with the players. I thought Pellegrini knew better.
 
cleavers said:
strongbowholic said:
cleavers said:
Some interesting sub plots in there.

You want the players to believe in MP's system.
He played his system last night I think you'd agree ?
His system was an utter flop last night, it would be hard to disagree ?
His system is proven to work in the past, so you want him to stick with it ?

I'm not being difficult, but its this 'there is only one sytstem' thing that probably worries most of us, most of all, it seems to have worked against Newcastle, United, Plzen, and to a degree Villa, barring the individual f*ck ups costing us the game, but its has definitely failed against Cardiff, and Hull in the PL, and last night against Bayern. The worrying bit, is his lack of flexibility when its clearly going wrong, last night changes should have been made after 20 minutes, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium.

Different games need flexibility in systems, both from one game to another and even within games. At Villa for instance, having been so dominant, and having seen them equalise, and us go back in front, why not just make sure of the result. Last night watching 6 on 2 in midfield, why not change things, to at least stem the tide ?

I'm still pretty neutral on MP, but I want to see more flexibility in this so called system, I'm not sure what our two fullbacks were meant to be doing last night, but whatever it was it failed miserably, they neither helped the 2 centrebacks, as they were frequently drawn out of position to cover them, they didn't help the midfielders, a couple of extra bodies would have been useful, and they didn't get forward to help supply our two strikers either. Yes Bayern were good, but there is no way their 11 should have dominted our 11 so comprehensively, and that was down to the system failing badly from the 8th minute, it looked clueless, and the team rudderless.
Bizarrely, for a man of your intelligence, you are much better than that post. Whether we like or admit it, alarm bells are ringing. I want Manuel to breeze through with flying colours but the bell tolls differently at the moment.
As you haven't picked out what you think is wrong from my post, in fact I'm not sure you've read it all, I can't really respond, however for the record it wasn't meant to knock OB1's post, it was meant to drag some debate back into the thread genuine questions that people might have had an opinion on, slate them by all means if you disagree.

Do you not agree that MP needs to have more flexibility in this so called system ? Do you not agree that our fullbacks last night were awful, out of position and of little use to the team, much like the forwards, who as JMW's diagrams show, spent most of the time holding hands in their half, looking back at the disaster unfolding some distance behind them ? Then again only three weeks ago, I posted on here that I'd probably seen one of the best performances I'd ever seen, albeit against a poor united team, but we were as dominant in that game as Bayern were last night. We did play well at Plzen in the second half, and our reserves dismantled Wigan's reserves, which I took as a positive because all to often our reserves fail to turn up in thos games.

Like you I want him to succeed, I want us to succeed actually, and I don't really care that much who manages the success if I'm honest. I'm not pro or anti MP, much as I wasn't with the previous manager though by the end of last season I thought his time was up.

I did give a second response last night but it seems to have disappered into the internet ether: I was having some connection problems. Anyway I didn't think Cleavers was having a go, for the record.

I also wan't ignoring Bob K who asked what I thought MP was trying to do differently, which, in short, would be to be much more on the front front: more pressing, more tempo, more aggression, more movement; especially inside to out and vice versa when attacking. There was something about Villareal that I find hard to describe but I'd expect to see us look more like them than we do; not expecting a simple clone though.

Also, I just get the impression from MP that he is not seeing all that he wants to see.

None of ths, btw, excuses his tactical screw-ups v Bayern. It won't please many of us but MP's stated approach seems to be to prepare his team with most of the focus on his team and only a little on the opponents and them send them out and expect them to get on with it. I think he see's most of his job being done on the training pitch. Not saying that is right but it was the impression I got from an interview I saw with him.
 
Ducado said:
I have confidence that the disaster of Wednesday night will actually done us some good, the pressure is now on the manager and the team to perform like we know they can
I'd love to know why Ducado ? I'm afraid I don't share your confidence, I think it could have done a lot of damage between players and manager, he may be thinking that they didn't carry out his instructions as he wanted, or they may feel that his instructions are not fit for purpose, worse could be they both think this way. Hopefully there was a major "clear the air" meeting yesterday to sort the mess out.

I'll repeat that our playing personnel simply should not look individually, and collectively, that inferior to Bayern, no matter how well Bayern played, much as united shouldn't have done three weeks ago against us.
 
mancity1 said:
waspish said:
Danamy said:
The crazy, ironic, bizarre, stupid, silly........just pick a word.......thing about it all is the people that were crying out for stability last season for the club are now wanting the managers head within one and a half months of the season?

That's what I'm finding hard to get my head around, is this shit real?


When you know you have a dud you cut the cord quickly and move on before he does anymore damage! If we keep losing games it won't just be some fans wanting him gone the players will to..

Well those same players would need to have a good hard look at why they are at City if that was the case.

Yes the manager has made some mistakes but he cannot get on the field and ensure that the cock ups that have occurred against Cardiff , Villa and Bayern with an all too alarming frequency don't occur again.

The players and the leaders on the field have to take responsibility for their actions and or inaction and as has been drilled over and over again can do positive constructive things to ensure they remain vigilant and compact to minimise damage when under the cosh.

Its a group effort and people on hear saying MP was solely responsible for our demise against Bayern etc are deluding themselves.

Where has the leadership been from VK in the last two games?

If he seriously thinks comments like if that game was player over again 10 times we would win 9 of them he is kidding himself , it doesn't wash with the people that really care about City being successful and if he had his time over again he would say yes we were a tad unlucky but we created our own downfall by not creating one clear cut shot on goal for all the domination we had in open play.

Yes the heads were down after Bayern scored after 7 minutes and you could tell from the body language of many of our players we didn't want to be there , Bayern tired us out was Micah's response.

Well Micah first game back after a lay off if that's the case what are you and your fellow players doing in recovery using all the money we plow into fitness coaching , conditioning coaching from the supporters hard earned money.

Spare me days what kind of excuse is that for the shambolic display to a man against a good Bayern side and I stress good not great because we made a good side look great.

Remember this is the same side that had to beat a 10 man Chelsea on penalites on a neutral ground FFS.

So yes MP is under the pump , just like Moyes and Jose and every other manager whose side is underperforming but don't think the players are blameless for being unable to implement a game plan that they have decided as a group they want to buy into.

They as much as anybody were responsible for RM's demise and MH's demise and the same will happen to MP if they don't show some bottle , get off their fat ego's and show some grit and determination that is required to prove to the public they are worthy of representing this great club.

They are well paid and we expect 100 per cent effort and commitment from the most expensive squad and supposedly the best squad in the premiership.

Those players embarrassed our club against Bayern , yes the players and they embarrassed management and our owners as well.

Its pointless blaming the manager for that performance without asking serious questions about why Hart is a shadow of his best , why Clichy went AWOL , why Nasty continues to foul in dangerous areas , I could on add infinitum but I think you get my drift.

Poor " formation" or not , poor tactics or not , I expect more from this group and they know they have the power and things in their control to change that during games its not rocket science.

MP will carry the can if results and performances continue and you can bet the owners will act swiftly if his targets are not met so that take care of itself.

In the meantime if the players are so into MP and are a happy lot then its about time they pulled their finger out and give Everton a real spanking on Saturday if they want to avoid more heat being placed on MP.

They should be doing alot better than the dross they have dished out since MP took over.

If they have no respect for the current manager they at least should have respect for themselves and have some pride in their performance and sleep a little easier at night knowing they have justified their immense augmentation of income for at least one game.
That is one great fookin post mate!!
But MP was brought in to tackle this very problem. So if he can´t get the response he and we all require,he has to either bench those responsible until they get it or are sold off, or be replaced and the merry - go- round starts again. Big wages equals player power and it has to be stamped out. Pelle has a reputation for fostering great team ethics - now is his time to prove he can get tough - whoevers´ nose is put out of joint. Ambling along the touchline like a lost soul will not endear him to anyone either. It´s good cop bad cop, carrot and stick etc ... Mancini only knew the stick and this is where MP needs to show the right balance and a clear vision and idea of how to implement his style.
At the moment he appears to be making it up as he goes along
I hope I´m wrong
 
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