Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[coleridge]

I said at the beginning of the season that I felt we would, by the end of the season, show the most improvement of all the teams in the league. The only trick was going to be staying in touch of the top whilst we took on board this new philosophy. Fortunately the rags have started worse than us and Chelsea barely no better, so providing no more injuries to key players (We must look for proper Kompany cover in January, and something happening to Aguero at the moment doesn't bear thinking about), we have a good chance of hitting stride after stride.

I think after next summer we could genuinely be standing toe to toe with the big boys too. No more Bayern humiliation scenarios. At the end of next summer Txiki and Pellegrini will have been able to bring in and shift out pretty much everyone they want (clearly couldn't have done it all in one window), the style of football will be more deeply embedded, and everyone will have a better idea of their role in the team. Only downside is unless the state of English football drastically changes in 10 months, we'll likely be a bit more foreign as well, but if they're the only ones who can play the football there's not a lot we can do!

I think we're progressing at an excellent rate in terms of our attacking play. We have looked in moments all season like we're unplayable, but against Norwich and CSKA we were particularly dominant which had little to do with the opposition being poor (even though Norwich were just that), and more to do with our own capacity to keep and move the ball, and the movement off the ball of players such as Aguero and Nasri.

What's important for me is that we clearly have played the best football in the league this season, and clearly look the most dangerous side in the league (well, outside maybe Arsenal) when attacking. I'd forgotten what it felt like to see your best players play at their best consistently, but we're seeing it with the front 6.

Indeed. Imagine what it would be like if we could take corners properly!!! Interesting points from Dave et al. about the high line. That means a mobile, quick keeper who is a good decision-maker. Not sure that's Pants and doesn't look like Hart at the moment, but we'll see.

 

[Anonymous]

Naive Billy. I didn't see Bayern 'struggling to cope' when they pressed us.

Also, neither Silva nor Nasri come under the 'physical presence' category.

Sadly I have no answer for the Bayern game ... although I will say it's shame that it's referenced quite so often on Bluemoon. Feels like I'm watching Sky at times.

Nasri's ball retention is amongst the best in the squad. However my point about power/technical quality wasn't to suggest all those players have both. It was to point out the combination of those qualities makes it very difficult when you're trying to press and the ball is pinged around you with three first time passes as we did often against Chelsea and against Moscow last night.

Overall though you're right ... there are of course bigger tests to come both home and away and we're far from perfect as a footballing side. However the future looks damn good if you ask me.

 

[dave_blue12]

Yes their first goal was in part due to the lucky bounce they got, but also due to Nastasic not reacting quickly enough and joining the rest of the 'line' who immediately tried to play offside. His awareness was poor and therefore his movement to slow and this played their guy onside.

I think it's really easy for us to say in hindsight, whilst watching a goal in slow motion, who did what wrong. I like Pellegrini looking at a goal like that and feeling it's unnecessary to have a go at the team or anyone in particular. I reckon there was no more than 3 seconds between the bounce which fell at Tosic's feet and the ball being played through to Doumbia. Yes I'm sure nasty could've/should've reacted a bit quicker, but really we're talking such fine margins sometimes you just hold your hands up and go "this is football".

-- Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:17 pm --

Both teams (along with every other team we've played at home except Bayern) didn't press us.

If you dont press us we'll hammer you. You dont give our front 6 space and time and expect anything other than a very sore bumhole.

Its what we now do against the teams that press that will shape our CL journey.

Teams who do press us are going to struggle to cope with the one touch passing which passes directly through them. It's something I alluded to earlier today. What we have with Dinho, Yaya, and whoever of Nasri or Silva drops into the middle with them, is three players who's physical presence and technical quality allow them to play through/around the opposition with ease at times. Even Chelsea at the Bridge didn't bother pressing us for this reason.

Naive Billy. I didn't see Bayern 'struggling to cope' when they pressed us.

Also, neither Silva nor Nasri come under the 'physical presence' category.

We started the game against Bayern with Silva on the bench. He made a very big impact when he came on.

Against a team of the quality of BM missing the magician that is David Silva is very difficult to cover.

 

[dancity19]

Naive Billy. I didn't see Bayern 'struggling to cope' when they pressed us.

Also, neither Silva nor Nasri come under the 'physical presence' category.

Sadly I have no answer for the Bayern game ... although I will say it's shame that it's referenced quite so often on Bluemoon. Feels like I'm watching Sky at times.

Nasri's ball retention is amongst the best in the squad. However my point about power/technical quality wasn't to suggest all those players have both. It was to point out the combination of those qualities makes it very difficult when you're trying to press and the ball is pinged around you with three first time passes as we did often against Chelsea and against Moscow last night.

Overall though you're right ... there are of course bigger tests to come both home and away and we're far from perfect as a footballing side. However the future looks damn good if you ask me.

Nasri's ball retention is amongst the best in the league. No matter how poorly he is playing, you can never accuse him of giving the ball away. He may have not got involved, or tried simple passes, but his ball retention has always been phenomenal. His natural talent is unbelievable.

 

[taconinja]

Naive Billy. I didn't see Bayern 'struggling to cope' when they pressed us.

Also, neither Silva nor Nasri come under the 'physical presence' category.

Sadly I have no answer for the Bayern game ... although I will say it's shame that it's referenced quite so often on Bluemoon. Feels like I'm watching Sky at times.

Nasri's ball retention is amongst the best in the squad. However my point about power/technical quality wasn't to suggest all those players have both. It was to point out the combination of those qualities makes it very difficult when you're trying to press and the ball is pinged around you with three first time passes as we did often against Chelsea and against Moscow last night.

Overall though you're right ... there are of course bigger tests to come both home and away and we're far from perfect as a footballing side. However the future looks damn good if you ask me.

Bayern Munich is a simple solution. We were set up wrong, but injuries are the reason behind that. I would think that when we go to Germany, we'll see something very, very similar to how we set up at Chelsea. Barring injuries of course.

 

[waspish]

Pellegrini has us playing some great football and the improvement in some of our players is all to see, but(yeah there is a but) until we win a crunch match or win a trophy we will not know if Pellegrini is just a great attacking manager who is great at improving players and has the team singing from the same sheet or a manager that wins trophies..

I really hope we win something under Pellegrini because the football is sublime at times...

 

[supercity88]

I think as long as we can continue to progress then we will be a better side. Organisation and familiarity count for a lot in football. For instance whilst Bayern press high up the pitch, their 7-0 aggregate win over Barca was a full counter attacking style. Barca dominated possession but were beaten from quick attacks in a similar vein as the rags like to play and how Chelsea have set up in recent years. We are going to be a possession side, but we do not play a 4-5-1/4-3-3 system that Bayern do and so our 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 system will not have as much impact. But it was an experimental side in many ways, it was early days and I wonder whether our 4-4-2 from last night would fair better? Pellegrini in my opinion was more interested in players getting used to the system we will play for the majority of games. Whilst we were outclassed and lost he learnt a lot. In most key games away from home or against top sides he prefers a more defensive 5 man midfield. It is what he played away at Porto and both at home and away verses Dortmund. I think we will see a more reserved side away from home against top sides but Pellegrini has faith that we can beat the likes of Villa, Cardiff, Sunderland etc so keeps playing a 4-4-2 and that will get us results. It hasn't gained the right ones so far but the performances on the road have improved and results will follow. Defensively it is clear as day that we need to improve, the manager will work on that.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I think as long as we can continue to progress then we will be a better side. Organisation and familiarity count for a lot in football. For instance whilst Bayern press high up the pitch, their 7-0 aggregate win over Barca was a full counter attacking style. Barca dominated possession but were beaten from quick attacks in a similar vein as the rags like to play and how Chelsea have set up in recent years. We are going to be a possession side, but we do not play a 4-5-1/4-3-3 system that Bayern do and so our 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 system will not have as much impact. But it was an experimental side in many ways, it was early days and I wonder whether our 4-4-2 from last night would fair better? Pellegrini in my opinion was more interested in players getting used to the system we will play for the majority of games. Whilst we were outclassed and lost he learnt a lot. In most key games away from home or against top sides he prefers a more defensive 5 man midfield. It is what he played away at Porto and both at home and away verses Dortmund. I think we will see a more reserved side away from home against top sides but Pellegrini has faith that we can beat the likes of Villa, Cardiff, Sunderland etc so keeps playing a 4-4-2 and that will get us results. It hasn't gained the right ones so far but the performances on the road have improved and results will follow. Defensively it is clear as day that we need to improve, the manager will work on that.

There can't be a shadow of doubt that last night's team would have done better against Bayern. Silva transforms us for a start. The ball kept bouncing off Dzeko that night, whereas Negredo give you so much more, defensively as well. Hart was culpable twice. But a 4-2-3-1 like we played against Chelsea would have been more effective. That performance was not representative of where City are at. IT was a bad night for the manager and a bad night at the office all round.

I wouldn't rule out getting a result there if we continue to gel. Player for player I don't see them as being much ahead.

 

[Anonymous]

I think as long as we can continue to progress then we will be a better side. Organisation and familiarity count for a lot in football. For instance whilst Bayern press high up the pitch, their 7-0 aggregate win over Barca was a full counter attacking style. Barca dominated possession but were beaten from quick attacks in a similar vein as the rags like to play and how Chelsea have set up in recent years. We are going to be a possession side, but we do not play a 4-5-1/4-3-3 system that Bayern do and so our 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 system will not have as much impact. But it was an experimental side in many ways, it was early days and I wonder whether our 4-4-2 from last night would fair better? Pellegrini in my opinion was more interested in players getting used to the system we will play for the majority of games. Whilst we were outclassed and lost he learnt a lot. In most key games away from home or against top sides he prefers a more defensive 5 man midfield. It is what he played away at Porto and both at home and away verses Dortmund. I think we will see a more reserved side away from home against top sides but Pellegrini has faith that we can beat the likes of Villa, Cardiff, Sunderland etc so keeps playing a 4-4-2 and that will get us results. It hasn't gained the right ones so far but the performances on the road have improved and results will follow. Defensively it is clear as day that we need to improve, the manager will work on that.

There can't be a shadow of doubt that last night's team would have done better against Bayern. Silva transforms us for a start. The ball kept bouncing off Dzeko that night, whereas Negredo give you so much more, defensively as well. Hart was culpable twice. But a 4-2-3-1 like we played against Chelsea would have been more effective. That performance was not representative of where City are at. IT was a bad night for the manager and a bad night at the office all round.

I wouldn't rule out getting a result there if we continue to gel. Player for player I don't see them as being much ahead.

I suspect the players and management will want to go there and win because it could mean us topping the group as well as showing the world that what happened at the Etihad was not, as you say, a reflection of how good our team is.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Great thread this.

I agree our set up was all wrong v Bayern and I stated so in the post match thread at the time.

We were way to open and Yaya and Fern were left really exposed. Dzeko's poor ball retention and sheer laziness didn't help either.

I think with a more appropriate formation (4-5-1) and our best personnel (inc Silva and Nasri) we would 100% keep possession better and give Bayern a really really tough game. We would also need Kompany back to full fitness and Hart to be in 2011/12 form.

The 1-3 wasnt a fair reflection on our ability in comparison to them.

If we shape ourselves properly and have total concentration and total belief we can beat anyone.

MP deserves huge credit for our CL progress and is imo a very astute manager who will bring success to our club.