Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[lust overlord]

If you're talking about replacing players not replaced last season, yes, perhaps. Navas for Adam Johnson. Jovetic for Balotelli. That's fine, but then we cannot compare to last season's results. I'd be happy to say 11/12 is the benchmark to beat, we've got to improve from there. Otherwise, if we're comparing to last season undoubtedly this squad is better than last season's. In my opinion this squad is the best balanced squad we've had. We got pace on one of the wings. We have an aerial threat who is also a workhorse up front, and we've certainly got more quality long passes coming in from Fernandinho. Those all give us extra dimensions that we've not had before. If you don't agree that we've got a squad better than 11/12 (with Tevez missing for six months), ok, fair enough, matter of opinion, but there's no chance this squad isn't better than last season's.

I don't see it as an anomaly. We've talked about this before. I think the chances the opposition getting now are clearer cut, if you play a high line and use wing-backs there is more space and fewer players back to cover it. Ergo, we concede more.

It's pretty straight forward. Tevez, Balotelli, Barry, and Scott Sinclair out. Navas, Jovetic, Negredo, Fernandinho in.

In terms of the conclusion you draw regarding the goals we're conceding, although in theory it's true, in practice the majority of goals we've conceded have had everything to do with individual error rather than a high defensive line. That's why it's anomalous and that's why the shot we're conceding on our goal is relevant in terms of analysing what's going on and what's going wrong IMO.

Yes,the individual errors have resulted in clear cut goalscoring opportunities.A fair few of the goals conceded have come from us losing the ball in the opposition half and the opponents by passing our midfield with a punt forward.
If we are playing a high line we are going to be caught short.
The shots conceded stat is interesting,but you can also argue because we play more openly,our opponents can afford to wait for the better chances our system allows them.

 

[Anonymous]

Scott Sinclair? He barely played and there's no chance on this Earth you can argue Navas is a downgrade on Scott bloody Sinclair. He is a huge upgrade, and a bump up on Johnson too. Balotelli sold in January. Tevez for Negredo. Personally, I think Negredo gives us a lot more than Tevez, but ok, let's call that a straight swap. Fernandinho, upgrade on Barry.

As far as I'm concerned we're one-and-a-half players up on last season, Navas and Jovetic, with Fernandinho and Negredo representing a further improvement to the balance of the squad. This squad is better than last season's, I don't know how it can be argued. 11/12 is more debatable but not last season.

I'll agree to disagree on that point. We'll know if I'm right or not depending on whether we keep conceding more goals. If we can get it down to a goal a game average, I'll be satisfied.

It's interesting ... you seem to be getting hold of the wrong end of the stick. I happen to believe that all the players we signed last summer are an upgrade on the outgoing players for various reasons, so yes our squad is stronger than last season, and arguably stronger than the title winning squad. However the constant references to how we've added 100 million pounds worth of talent without any reference to the players who went out is wildly disingenuous when it's used as a stick with which to beat the manager. Especially when he's had barely a few months with those players.<br /><br />-- Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:32 pm --<br /><br />

[

Yes,the individual errors have resulted in clear cut goalscoring opportunities.A fair few of the goals conceded have come from us losing the ball in the opposition half and the opponents by passing our midfield with a punt forward.
If we are playing a high line we are going to be caught short.
The shots conceded stat is interesting,but you can also argue because we play more openly,our opponents can afford to wait for the better chances our system allows them.

If you play with a high line you will be susceptible to balls over the top and you will have the potential to get caught short. I totally agree with that. how many goals we've conceded because of the high line though is debatable. Certainly the majority of goals conceded away from home IMO had little to do with the high line.

I think as the season progresses we will concede less. I said recently and I stand by it ... but for Vinny's mistake at Villa and Joe's at Chelsea the season would look a lot differently.

 

[Balti]

Re: Clueless manager

To be fair, if he picked up an injury, it could well have been from Larsson's tackle. Which was brought about because of a hospital ball lay-off by Yaya, which in turn was symptomatic of his thoroughly half-assed performance - a performance which contributed much more to our defeat than Garcia's.

The whole point people are trying to make is Garcia shouldn't have even been on the fucking pitch, Rodwell and Milner are far more capable players who for that specialist position.

Perhaps. But then with Rodwell you have to weigh up (i) that he's highly unlikely to last more than 60 mins and (ii) whether he's disciplined enough to play the role. Against Norwich at home last season he was excellent, but the partnership with Yaya was awful and left us hopelessly exposed.

With Milner (i) Pellegrini obviously wanted to play him in one of the wide roles ahead of Navas, which I understand given that one of the major criticisms of him has been that he's been too attacking, especially away from home, and (ii) he too lacks the discipline to play a holding role (it is, as you say, a specialist role).

so why was Barry allowed to leave we wonder......

 

[FantasyIreland]

The best squad we've had? i'd probably agree.

However,that fact is largely irrelevant when half of it is unavailable.

 

[Skashion]

It's interesting ... you seem to be getting hold of the wrong end of the stick. I happen to believe that all the players we signed last summer are an upgrade on the outgoing players for various reasons, so yes our squad is stronger than last season, and arguably stronger than the title winning squad. However the constant references to how we've added 100 million pounds worth of talent without any reference to the players who went out is wildly disingenuous when it's used as a stick with which to beat the manager. Especially when he's had barely a few months with those players.

Might be because you said the players we bought were a downgrade (which you're now contradicting) thereby making the money spent irrelevant.

The ones we bought in the summer were all classed as a downgrade on the outgoing players. Whichever way you cut it, the money spent/players bought is an irrelevance and a total red herring.

Well, it's not irrelevant. We improved the squad so we should do better than last season. Okie dokie.

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

We should sack him and bring back Bobby.

You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
Bobby Manc is coming to town
He's making a team
And changing it twice;
Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice
Bobby Manc is coming to town
He sees you when you're in the news
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you've played bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!
O! You better watch out!
You better not cry
Better not speak out!
I'm telling you why
Bobby Manc is coming to town
Bobby Manc is coming to town

 

[FantasyIreland]

Re: Clueless manager

[so why was Barry allowed to leave we wonder......

Perhaps being in his twilight years,and also a world cup season,he himself decided the opportunity of guaranteed regular first team football was preferable to sporadic appearances from our bench and in lesser competition.

 

[Skashion]

The best squad we've had? i'd probably agree.

However,that fact is largely irrelevant when half of it is unavailable.

Aguero and Kompany started less than two-thirds of our Premier League games last season through injury.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Re: Clueless manager

so why was Barry allowed to leave we wonder......

It appears that Gareth Barry has become the new Nigel de Jong this season!

 

[blueparrot]

If you're talking about replacing players not replaced last season, yes, perhaps. Navas for Adam Johnson. Jovetic for Balotelli. That's fine, but then we cannot compare to last season's results. I'd be happy to say 11/12 is the benchmark to beat, we've got to improve from there. Otherwise, if we're comparing to last season undoubtedly this squad is better than last season's. In my opinion this squad is the best balanced squad we've had. We got pace on one of the wings. We have an aerial threat who is also a workhorse up front, and we've certainly got more quality long passes coming in from Fernandinho. Those all give us extra dimensions that we've not had before. If you don't agree that we've got a squad better than 11/12 (with Tevez missing for six months), ok, fair enough, matter of opinion, but there's no chance this squad isn't better than last season's.

I don't see it as an anomaly. We've talked about this before. I think the chances the opposition getting now are clearer cut, if you play a high line and use wing-backs there is more space and fewer players back to cover it. Ergo, we concede more.

It's pretty straight forward. Tevez, Balotelli, Barry, and Scott Sinclair out. Navas, Jovetic, Negredo, Fernandinho in.

In terms of the conclusion you draw regarding the goals we're conceding, although in theory it's true, in practice the majority of goals we've conceded have had everything to do with individual error rather than a high defensive line. That's why it's anomalous and that's why the shot we're conceding on our goal is relevant in terms of analysing what's going on and what's going wrong IMO.

Yes,the individual errors have resulted in clear cut goalscoring opportunities.A fair few of the goals conceded have come from us losing the ball in the opposition half and the opponents by passing our midfield with a punt forward.
If we are playing a high line we are going to be caught short.
The shots conceded stat is interesting,but you can also argue because we play more openly,our opponents can afford to wait for the better chances our system allows them.

Tottenham and Southampton both play a similar high line but don't seem as open to a punt over the top so it can be done, playing a consistent back four would help, if we could just keep our defenders fit then the errors might cure themselves.