Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

[waspish]

Outstanding football yesterday and I think Pellegrini set us up differently like some have said as a template to how we may play away from home in the future..

 

[cibaman]

If Manchester City v Spurs was must win for Pellegrini, as some "City" fans claimed, does it follow that the loser of Spurs v Man Utd should be sacked?

Very happy blue here, and I hope that this is a turning point for our season.

I wont really be truly confident of City until Kompany is back in the team - when that happens we will be a force home and away.

Those blaming Pellegrini for the away defeats are way off the mark, although I understand the frustration

The away results are hugely frustrating because we have shown yet again today that we can do what few, if any other, teams in the division can do.

Does anyone really think we won't turn the away form round ? If we can destroy a team like Spurs at home, then we can win the majority of our away games.

It will click, and when it does, we are going to be very very hard to keep up with, the deficit to Arsenal is still only 6, and we have the game in 3 weeks to reduce that to 3, even if they keep up their current form in the meantime.

The WBA and Southampton games should answer the question as to whether the away form can be turned round. Win those and the focus on our away from should go away. Drop points and the debate will continue.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I don't think that's true Dave. The defensive approach was different to what we've seen so far. It seemed like we sat quite a bit deeper and were much more selective about when to press and when we were happy to be sit in 2 banks of 4 and ask Spurs to try and play through us. I actually think that's very encouraging in terms of improving away from home.

Definitely different though I'm not sure whether that was on purpose or because of how Spurs played.

That's exactly what it was. Spurs pushed on. We didn't change anything about the way we played. The early goal meant they attacked us a bit more expansively so we just broke up their attacks and were incisive as we attacked. The only reason Clichy didn't appear to push on is that Lennon kept him busy.

Whilst we defended well throughout - a real positive for me - we were pretty poor going forward between about minutes 15 and 35 and we kept giving it back to them. Ya Ya and Nasri were particularly culpable here. But we got a bit lucky with the errors they made to gift us goals and then took total control of the game from then on in.

Yeah we couldn't keep the ball for periods of the game, especially in that first half and we were still too open at the back for my liking, but everyone knows my desire for the holding man, which I liked with Garcia on in the 2nd half. At home we get away with that openness but away we've proven we won't, suckering teams in early on away though (with that extra cover) and pouncing on the counter would be really effective imo, if that's the way we're going to go I look forward to it.

All that being said we beat SPURS 6-0, it was still sensational but we were so clinical yesterday, such a far cry from Sunderland. Remarkably we didn't have that many shots but our last 4 shots on target in the match were all scored, you don't see that often.

 

[bobmcfc]

We have to start now though before that gap gets any bigger and harder to close. We definitely have the quality to go the distance and I'm hoping that the initial burst of greatness arsenal and Liverpool are currently enjoying will soon fizzle out. Southamptons great form is due a blip and that Xmas pile up will see more than a few casualties (hopefully we are smart enough to not be one of them and grasp the opportunity to pounce)

Please just sort those bloody away jitters out because our quality is ridiculous and if we do t do it with this squad it will be such a tragedy because we know we have what it takes

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Definitely different though I'm not sure whether that was on purpose or because of how Spurs played.

That's exactly what it was. Spurs pushed on. We didn't change anything about the way we played. The early goal meant they attacked us a bit more expansively so we just broke up their attacks and were incisive as we attacked. The only reason Clichy didn't appear to push on is that Lennon kept him busy.

Whilst we defended well throughout - a real positive for me - we were pretty poor going forward between about minutes 15 and 35 and we kept giving it back to them. Ya Ya and Nasri were particularly culpable here. But we got a bit lucky with the errors they made to gift us goals and then took total control of the game from then on in.

Yeah we couldn't keep the ball for periods of the game, especially in that first half and we were still too open at the back for my liking, but everyone knows my desire for the holding man, which I liked with Garcia on in the 2nd half. At home we get away with that openness but away we've proven we won't, suckering teams in early on away though (with that extra cover) and pouncing on the counter would be really effective imo, if that's the way we're going to go I look forward to it.

All that being said we beat SPURS 6-0, it was still sensational but we were so clinical yesterday, such a far cry from Sunderland. Remarkably we didn't have that many shots but our last 4 shots on target in the match were all scored, you don't see that often.

It was indeed an odd game in some ways. We should have been 3-0 after ten minutes. At half time it was 3-0 but it flattered us. Second half we were brilliant. Even though we were clinical, I could list you a number of excellent chances we fluffed: Sergio tried to dink the keeper, Nasri took a touch too much, Nasri hit the bar (should have squared it) and Fernandinho tap in he miskicked.

We did defend very well I thought. Spurs had one chance: ADebayor late on.

The problem that we have with the existing formation, as you allude to, is the defensive side of the midfield and in particular, Ya Ya's poor defensive ability. If a genuinely good side get an extra man in there we are fucked. So far only Bayern have done it.

I think that game taught the manager that lesson. I honestly think everything's coming together brilliantly. I had big concerns yesterday as to how we would play without Silva - a problem we have had for 2 years. The Sunderland was a classic case of his absence being crucial. But twice now we have done this - United and Spurs - and played brilliantly. You've got to give Pellegrini credit for that: it's another big brick in the ball.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

From the Telegraph:

There are no regrets at Manchester City at sacking Roberto Mancini and hiring Manuel Pellegrini.

Ninth in the Premier League table, yes; four defeats away from home, yes; and uncertainty as to just where this campaign is heading, yes.

There are also doubts as to what their best team is and whether the balance of the squad is right – surely they could have bought better than Martin Demichelis? – as they veer from a 7-0 thumping of Norwich City to losing away against Sunderland.

In a season where consistency – that key to league success – is lacking and uncertainty reigns, the trend is being felt most sharply at City.

And yet for all that wider uncertainty, the club’s faith in Pellegrini is unshaken.

Even more so, there is a belief at City that they would be in a worse space – if not necessarily a worse place in the table – had Mancini remained: that if Italian had somehow survived the club would have continued in a downward spiral.

Mancini had to go. That is the consensus at City and, certainly, he would not have saved himself had he won the FA Cup last season. The decision to dismiss him had already been taken and did not hinge on City’s drab performance that day at Wembley.

Whether Pellegrini is the answer remains to be seen and City are candid enough about that. Why shouldn’t they be?

This is a club with extreme wealth and ambition – a tour around the vast training ground that is being built a short stroll from the Etihad Stadium is further confirmation of that – and one that intends to be here to stay as a European force.

League form is a worry, but there is no panic. City have negotiated themselves into the knock-out stages of the Champions League, something that Mancini had failed to do, even if he endured more difficult groups, and that has already been a cause of quiet celebration at the club.

The Chilean’s work is, sensibly, being looked at as a whole. It is not just about the first 11 league games of the season and City were serious when they talked about a desire for a “holistic” approach with a manager interested in every aspect of the club and creating a more positive environment.

There are other indicators. The sense at City was that individually and collectively the team slumped last season.

The performances of Yaya Touré, David Silva and Sergio Agüero were a cause for concern as was their unease. Even such exemplary professionals as James Milner were suffering. And it was noticed. Pablo Zabaleta was player of the year and as fine a right-back, and a character, as he is it was more a sign of how others had underperformed.

Now the reviews are raving for Agüero and Touré and City can also point to the injuries suffered to their two other key players – Silva and, in particular, captain Vincent Kompany, as being key factors. It is not far from clicking.

Finding a strong central defender has to be a priority in the January window along with an experienced goalkeeper, although City are now playing down the latter suggestion.

Nevertheless, the stats look harsh on Pellegrini. City have 19 points and a goal difference of plus 16, having scored 28 goals.

At the same stage last season City had yet to lose a league game and had earned 25 points, scoring 20 goals. The season before, when they won the league, is even starker – City had again yet to lose a league match and had already collected 29 points, 10 more than they currently have, having scored 37 goals.

However, Mancini already had a season and a half at the club before then and Pellegrini is charged not just with bringing success and making the team competitive – although there are no specific targets of silverware for this campaign – but crucially changing the playing style.

It was a theme he returned to on Friday as he prepared for Sunday's encounter at home to Tottenham Hotspur, another club deeply into transition. Pellegrini spent the international break reviewing City’s matches so far and came to the same conclusion.

“I am absolutely sure,” was the phrase that punctuated his speech as he was peppered with questions on Joe Hart, defensive weaknesses and the title race. “If we play with 10 players at the back then it is very difficult for other teams to score a goal against us,” Pellegrini said.

“I’m not talking about [the way City played in] other seasons but there are different ways to play and maybe at the moment I am trying to have a [different] style for the club.

“I am absolutely sure that if we went to play against Cardiff or against Sunderland and waited in our own box, 10 players waiting for Sunderland, then I am absolutely sure that we don’t lose the game. But I am also absolutely sure that we don’t improve as a team.”

Lose on Sunday and that sense of certainty will be tested further. But City remain absolutely sure of one thing: they had to move on Mancini.

They remain hopeful that Pellegrini is the answer.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/10469948/Manchester-City-manager-Manuel-Pellegrini-need-not-worry-about-a-lack-of-support-from-clubs-hierarchy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... archy.html</a>

Historically, articles like the one above are rolled out by clubs when there ARE concerns. They normally happen about 2-3 weeks before the vote of confidence and 5 weeks before the sacking.

Well, there are concerns. All last week i was fairly content about the week ahead with three home games i thought we would comfortably win. But since the final whistle at Sunderland i've been concerned about the week after this with West Brom and Southampton both away within four days of each other. I think come this time next week i will have butterflies about the two away games going off what we've seen so far.

 

[cleavers]

I had big concerns yesterday as to how we would play without Silva - a problem we have had for 2 years. The Sunderland was a classic case of his absence being crucial. But twice now we have done this - United and Spurs - and played brilliantly. You've got to give Pellegrini credit for that: it's another big brick in the ball.

The biggest miss at Sunderland was Fernandhino for me, yesterday with him back, and energising the midfield, we looked a completely different team, obviously Silva is a miss, but with Nasri in the form he is, its something we can get away with.

One other thing the difference between Sunderland and yesterday highlighted, was that we need a better back up than Milner, much as I like him, he isn't of the level we need in the centre of the pitch.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I had big concerns yesterday as to how we would play without Silva - a problem we have had for 2 years. The Sunderland was a classic case of his absence being crucial. But twice now we have done this - United and Spurs - and played brilliantly. You've got to give Pellegrini credit for that: it's another big brick in the ball.

The biggest miss at Sunderland was Fernandhino for me, yesterday with him back, and energising the midfield, we looked a completely different team, obviously Silva is a miss, but with Nasri in the form he is, its something we can get away with.

One other thing the difference between Sunderland and yesterday highlighted, was that we need a better back up than Milner, much as I like him, he isn't of the level we need in the centre of the pitch.

Yeah, Fernandinho was a big miss. The way we try to pass in tight spaces, and the gap between the pass/control ability of the first choice players and backups, meant that playing without two of these first choices dropped us right down a level.

I tend to agree about Milner, too. Good lad, good battler but not a good enough footballer for the Pellegrini way. His versatility means he can do us a job in and around the squad, as he is doing now. I suspect he might be happy with that.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

That's exactly what it was. Spurs pushed on. We didn't change anything about the way we played. The early goal meant they attacked us a bit more expansively so we just broke up their attacks and were incisive as we attacked. The only reason Clichy didn't appear to push on is that Lennon kept him busy.

Whilst we defended well throughout - a real positive for me - we were pretty poor going forward between about minutes 15 and 35 and we kept giving it back to them. Ya Ya and Nasri were particularly culpable here. But we got a bit lucky with the errors they made to gift us goals and then took total control of the game from then on in.

Yeah we couldn't keep the ball for periods of the game, especially in that first half and we were still too open at the back for my liking, but everyone knows my desire for the holding man, which I liked with Garcia on in the 2nd half. At home we get away with that openness but away we've proven we won't, suckering teams in early on away though (with that extra cover) and pouncing on the counter would be really effective imo, if that's the way we're going to go I look forward to it.

All that being said we beat SPURS 6-0, it was still sensational but we were so clinical yesterday, such a far cry from Sunderland. Remarkably we didn't have that many shots but our last 4 shots on target in the match were all scored, you don't see that often.

It was indeed an odd game in some ways. We should have been 3-0 after ten minutes. At half time it was 3-0 but it flattered us. Second half we were brilliant. Even though we were clinical, I could list you a number of excellent chances we fluffed: Sergio tried to dink the keeper, Nasri took a touch too much, Nasri hit the bar (should have squared it) and Fernandinho tap in he miskicked.

We did defend very well I thought. Spurs had one chance: ADebayor late on.

The problem that we have with the existing formation, as you allude to, is the defensive side of the midfield and in particular, Ya Ya's poor defensive ability. If a genuinely good side get an extra man in there we are fucked. So far only Bayern have done it.

I think that game taught the manager that lesson. I honestly think everything's coming together brilliantly. I had big concerns yesterday as to how we would play without Silva - a problem we have had for 2 years. The Sunderland was a classic case of his absence being crucial. But twice now we have done this - United and Spurs - and played brilliantly. You've got to give Pellegrini credit for that: it's another big brick in the ball.

Absolutely, I think at home against anyone but maybe Chelsea because of the way Jose will set up (ie. brick wall) we can play that way in the league and make it pay just through intensity and class, away is a different story. As you said the first 10 we should have been 3 up, and I know we had chances we fluffed but I was just pointing out that especially considering we did the United game thing of cooling it off after an hour we didn't have many shots on target, but it was just remarkable that the last 4 we had, which includes every goal in the 2nd half, went in the net. It wasn't a dominant performance, it's not going to be playing 4-4-2, but it was clinical, which is what you have to be when you play that way and it's why when it goes well you win 6-0 v a title rival and when it doesn't you lose 1-0 to a pile of shit at the bottom of the table, the fact we've had 1 draw all season reflects that, there's little margin for error in the way we play.

Spurs didn't have clear chances but they did get the ball in threatening areas, particularly down Clichy's side in the first half. They were rubbish yesterday and that helped us cope, but I did like how Pelle sat us back and tested being deeper and a 3 man midfield and I think away if we can play possum and encourage teams onto us we can kill them on the break. I felt we missed a trick in an odd way at Sunderland because I felt if we'd actually not resorted to pumping the ball in the box aimlessly and actually sat back a bit and encouraged Sunderland to go for the kill we could have pounced on them. I think against lower in the table sides you can coax them out looking for that killer goal with their lack of top level experience and naivety.

Bayern fucked us but Pelle fucked that up. There's only two occassions I've thought he's genuinely fucked it up and that's Bayern and Sunderland. The 3 man midfield is the Barca way and he has leeway with his 4-4-2 and often it works, especially at home. The openness at home oddly encourages teams to have a go and play a bit more rather than relinquish control of the game to us and thus gives us more space to attack, at home it works because we have the crowd behind us and the confidence, away we lack that and the opposition have the crowd behind them who roar every time they go forward because they're playing City, we're a huge scalp.

The early goal set the tone yesterday and we didn't look back, it was an exception because we won't find it that easy that often again this season imo, but we need to adapt to fight for the 1 or 2 goal wins which will come away from home with a bit of solidity and extra nous, which from the 2nd half yesterday I'm hoping has clicked for Pelle.

 

[OB1]

I'm not getting sucked into this daft thread again but I just have to comment on all these "have to admit MP got it bang on today" comments. He did nothing different today than he's been doing all season. The team picked itself. The formation and gameplan was exactly what it always is. If I'm really honest I didn't think we played as well as we have in some games, we were just clinical and no one made any silly errors.

Everything is going fine and dandy. Silverware beckons this season.

I don't think that's true Dave. The defensive approach was different to what we've seen so far. It seemed like we sat quite a bit deeper and were much more selective about when to press and when we were happy to be sit in 2 banks of 4 and ask Spurs to try and play through us. I actually think that's very encouraging in terms of improving away from home.

Definitely different though I'm not sure whether that was on purpose or because of how Spurs played.

I think Spurs pushed us back. I don't think it was what Pellegrini wanted and he was critical of the middle patch of the first half in his post match interview; although he said we defended well and I think we did.