Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

[OB1]

The football is the best it has ever been.

This team can cut you to ribbons, pass you to death or simply bide its time.

It's been a few years in coming but the arrogance and desire required to dominate is coming on stream.

Most importantly of all, we are cultivating an identity.

Attacking football - YES. Great to watch - especially at home.
Defensive football - NO. We really have too improve a lot here to win the league. A team with an excellent defence and an OK attack is more lightly to win silverware than a team with an OK defence and an excellent attack.

Even allowing for the comedy of the last 15 mins we were much improved last night. The team as a whole has to concentrate for 90 mins though.

Our defence does not need to improve a lot. A fairly small improvement is all that is required.

 

[taconinja]

The football is the best it has ever been.

This team can cut you to ribbons, pass you to death or simply bide its time.

It's been a few years in coming but the arrogance and desire required to dominate is coming on stream.

Most importantly of all, we are cultivating an identity.

Attacking football - YES. Great to watch - especially at home.
Defensive football - NO. We really have too improve a lot here to win the league. A team with an excellent defence and an OK attack is more lightly to win silverware than a team with an OK defence and an excellent attack.

Even allowing for the comedy of the last 15 mins we were much improved last night. The team as a whole has to concentrate for 90 mins though.

Our defence does not need to improve a lot. A fairly small improvement is all that is required.

I think it's formational although having someone of Kompany's ability mediates it. I can't see how a midfield two can both cover that space in front of the central defenders and push on to attack simultaneously... no matter how much of an engine they have. I'm not sure anyone in the PL has better stamina than Fernandinho and he can't do it especially for 90 minutes. Pellegrini emphasizes attack, so you're going to have that gap. It can work, but we have to accept our defending will on occasion look very poor.

 

[BobKowalski]

I'll say it, 4-4-2 works. But only when the everyone plays well and the vast majority play at their best.

This isn't a formation really that you can play poorly and really get a result, as proven by our either "we win or we lose" results this season. Thus issues such as switching off just aren't affordable because they cost us results, there is very little margin for error but the plus points are enormous when we play well.

It's high risk for high reward, but big falls if it doesn't work. Pelle got away with it in the end last night, it wasn't his fault as you could tell he was deeply unimpressed by the players switching off, but it's an issue that needs to be resolved, because it's become noticeable that against all but the top teams away and possession teams home and away that the tactics work, but only when everyone is absolutely on it.

No margin for error, and he HAS to drill it into every single member of the squad.

Agreed. But as I said in the post game thread it comes back to mentality and this inability to concentrate for the full 90+ minutes is our 'mentality'. A team that switches off is the managers responsibility. A team that switches off on a consistent basis is a reflection of the manager. This will be our season. At times sublime and at times jaw dropping ineptitude not because the players aren't good enough but because they have all gone walkabout in their heads.

It is what it is.

This manager will not be happy with his players switching off and I am sure who will work to change that but, ultimately, that may require him to change some players and he will not have much opportunity to do that until the summer.

Last night, we made far too many errors, throughout the game.

If he was working to change the mentality and eradicate the errors brought on by sloppiness then it would have been done by now. The tone of any managers style and thought processes settles on a team fairly quickly which is no doubt why ManU look more like Moyes Everton than Taggart's ManU with every passing day. Twenty-five years of hammering in a blueprint into a club wiped out in 4 months.

Pellers in the MEN the other day still talking about our defensive lapses down to baffling individual mistakes as if these mistakes were just random happen stance or bad luck. They aren't. Its down to our mindset. Nasri talks about needing to defend as a team (good), Yaya talks about Nasri being reborn as he no longer has to defend just attack (Not good). Mixed messages and revealing. This is not a pop at Nasri who is in excellent form right now but gives us a flavour of the managers thinking. We don't concentrate as a team for 90+ mins because Pellers doesn't attach the importance to it as other managers would do. Its not his style to obsess the way a Rafa or a Roberto or a Jose would about conceding goals. For some managers a 5-1 victory is time to lament the goal conceded not the goals scored. Pellers puts his faith in his system correcting the wrongs. Perfect his system (whatever that is) and all will be well.

Its a different approach and one that Pep admires although this admiration doesn't stop Pep obsessing about the length of the grass on the training pitch or hunting down moles or pressing the crap out of opposing teams - in fact come to think of it Pep's admiration doesn't seem to actually include adopting Pellers somewhat laissez faire approach but hey whatever. We have what we have. Enjoy the good bits and fret not about the not so good bits. It is after all just another fascinating leg on our way to world domination.

 

[OB1]

Agreed. But as I said in the post game thread it comes back to mentality and this inability to concentrate for the full 90+ minutes is our 'mentality'. A team that switches off is the managers responsibility. A team that switches off on a consistent basis is a reflection of the manager. This will be our season. At times sublime and at times jaw dropping ineptitude not because the players aren't good enough but because they have all gone walkabout in their heads.

It is what it is.

This manager will not be happy with his players switching off and I am sure who will work to change that but, ultimately, that may require him to change some players and he will not have much opportunity to do that until the summer.

Last night, we made far too many errors, throughout the game.

Some great stuff for the first 35 minutes last night, but as the game wore on we got sloppier and sloppier. Dzeko probably encapsulated this best. A couple of lovely early lay offs, a great reverse pass for the opening goal, and unlucky not to get on the end of a couple of fizzing crosses himself. However, by the time the hour was up he'd reverted to type, stumbling forward with the touch of a horse, before gradually coming to a standstill and then getting mugged, time after time. Navas also faded noticeably, Fernandinho wasn't as impressive as usual, and some of Di Michelis's defending and Zabaleta's passing out of defence was downright poor.
I'd certainly want to restore Lescott to the mix on Saturday with the Beast up top, and possibly Milner as a starter. Southampton's relentless high press will cause us far more problems than West Brom did last night that's for sure

Although I think Lescott was unfortunate to miss out last night, I agreed with the selection of Demichelis, who I thought had a good game up to the 94th minute. He did some great covering work last night, was frequently organising those around him and played some intelligent ball out of defence. I would be very surprised if he did not start at Southampton.

I agree with the rest of your comments. Milner for Navas might be sensible if we are going 4222, and I'm sure that we will,

 

[taconinja]

This manager will not be happy with his players switching off and I am sure who will work to change that but, ultimately, that may require him to change some players and he will not have much opportunity to do that until the summer.

Last night, we made far too many errors, throughout the game.

Some great stuff for the first 35 minutes last night, but as the game wore on we got sloppier and sloppier. Dzeko probably encapsulated this best. A couple of lovely early lay offs, a great reverse pass for the opening goal, and unlucky not to get on the end of a couple of fizzing crosses himself. However, by the time the hour was up he'd reverted to type, stumbling forward with the touch of a horse, before gradually coming to a standstill and then getting mugged, time after time. Navas also faded noticeably, Fernandinho wasn't as impressive as usual, and some of Di Michelis's defending and Zabaleta's passing out of defence was downright poor.
I'd certainly want to restore Lescott to the mix on Saturday with the Beast up top, and possibly Milner as a starter. Southampton's relentless high press will cause us far more problems than West Brom did last night that's for sure

Although I think Lescott was unfortunate to miss out last night, I agreed with the selection of Demichelis, who I thought had a good game up to the 94th minute. He did some great covering work last night, was frequently organising those around him and played some intelligent ball out of defence. I would be very surprised if he did not start at Southampton.

I agree with the rest of your comments. Milner for Navas might be sensible if we are going 4222, and I'm sure that we will,

It always takes time with a central partnership. I think that was the first time Kompany and Demichelis were on the pitch at the same time all season, wasn't it?

 

[cleavers]

Our defence does not need to improve a lot. A fairly small improvement is all that is required.

Correct, in fact last night, against Swansea, and against Spurs it was pretty good, restricting them all, to few if any serious chances in our penalty area.

In all games we've conceded 22 goals, in 25 games, less than a goal game (the target claimed as league winning earlier in this thread) the majority down to poor individual errors, and 9 of them came in just three games, all three over 2 months ago.

{edit}.....and we haven't played the same central defensive partnership for 90 minutes in consecutive games yet.

 

[Barcon]

I would like to have a team full of English players and be sitting at a comfortable ninth place in the league.

When we set the record for most club players in an England team, it was a good thing. Nowdays it would be a sign of shitness.

 

[MillionDollarDream]

I would like to have a team full of English players and be sitting at a comfortable ninth place in the league.

When we set the record for most club players in an England team, it was a good thing. Nowdays it would be a sign of shitness.

Serious question who would you put as the best 11 English players currently to build our team with and what position on the table would it get us? Commentators surely like to point that our English contingent is on the bench but which English players could start in our team right now?

 

[OB1]

Our defence does not need to improve a lot. A fairly small improvement is all that is required.

Correct, in fact last night, against Swansea, and against Spurs it was pretty good, restricting them all, to few if any serious chances in our penalty area.

In all games we've conceded 22 goals, in 25 games, less than a goal game (the target claimed as league winning earlier in this thread) the majority down to poor individual errors, and 9 of them came in just three games, all three over 2 months ago.

{edit}.....and we haven't played the same central defensive partnership for 90 minutes in consecutive games yet.

Yup. and as I have not mentioned it for a few days, I'll reiterate that we continue to concede the fewest shots on goal and, funnily enough, the team's closest to us on that stat also have the best defensive records in the division. Of course, WBA's first goal wasn't even a shot on target.

 

[taconinja]

Our defence does not need to improve a lot. A fairly small improvement is all that is required.

Correct, in fact last night, against Swansea, and against Spurs it was pretty good, restricting them all, to few if any serious chances in our penalty area.

In all games we've conceded 22 goals, in 25 games, less than a goal game (the target claimed as league winning earlier in this thread) the majority down to poor individual errors, and 9 of them came in just three games, all three over 2 months ago.

{edit}.....and we haven't played the same central defensive partnership for 90 minutes in consecutive games yet.

Yup. and as I have not mentioned it for a few days, I'll reiterate that we continue to concede the fewest shots on goal and, funnily enough, the team's closest to us on that stat also have the best defensive records in the division. Of course, WBA's first goal wasn't even a shot on target.

And honestly should have been offside if the defensive line had been properly set up. Of course, it should go without saying once again that it takes time to form a partnership in central defense.