Discuss Pellegrini....

[Shaelumstash]

I agree totally with what you say - we need to be pragmatic too and I totally believe Pellegrini will be. Coming into the business end of the season should we need just a point I believe Pellegrini will set the side up in order to get that point. It is that he didn't have the players available to alter our formation and play more pragmatically. That is where my comments stemmed from. People are just labelling Pellegrini as being a one formation manager with an inability to be flexible, they are also claiming he will sacrifice results in order to play expansive football. These labels are incorrect. He set Malaga up in a more defensive system in the knockout rounds, example being the first leg away in Porto. They still lost but they went on to win playing a more expansive and attacking formation in the home leg. They played two different formations reflecting the context of the game and the task in hand. I would share the same concerns as others if Pellegrini had put out the team he did on Monday despite having a fully fit Milner/Garcia on the bench. He didn't.

This is an interesting post. You are saying you think Pellegrini will be more defensive and solid when he needs to be, and when we have the players available.

My major concern has been that he won't do that no matter what. I'm
Just basing that on what I've heard and seen from him at City.

If you're saying he has made these adjustments at Malaga then that is encouraging. I hope you're right that when appropriate he takes a more practical approach at City. Only time will tell.

 

[silvasleftleg]

For those who think Pellegrini is reluctant to make changes:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qDfThaxmTU[/youtube]

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I think the posts from Shaelumtash, Dribble and Stoned rose take us to the heart of the matter when we are discussing Pellegrini. Is he a one formation manager who is able to challenge for trophies at City (and hopefully win them) only because he will have a team of players (superior enough to other teams0 available for long enough in a season that he can crush enough other teams? Or is he tactically flexible enough to change team selection and formation to suit the opposition when injuries and suspensions bite? I have to say that the little I saw of him at Malaga is inconclusive. In the first leg at home to Dortmund the Malaga midfield was shredded and Malaga very lucky to get away with a draw: by the second leg he had analysed where they were going wrong and they were desperately unlucky to go out. Against Barca in his last match, though, - and Barca have probably the best known and most studied midfield in the world - Malaga were so open that they were 4 down (within the first 20 minutes, I think). On Monday, not only was Fernandinho out, but all our other midfielders, and so in terms of players Pellegrini's choices were non-existent - MDM had to play. But I thought it was a real weakness that there were no changes to tactics and formation to make allowances for a third choice CB who was trying to do exactly the same job that a vital cog in the team does. I couldn't see how he could cope with the challenges posed by that Chelsea midfield.

 

[supercity88]

I agree totally with what you say - we need to be pragmatic too and I totally believe Pellegrini will be. Coming into the business end of the season should we need just a point I believe Pellegrini will set the side up in order to get that point. It is that he didn't have the players available to alter our formation and play more pragmatically. That is where my comments stemmed from. People are just labelling Pellegrini as being a one formation manager with an inability to be flexible, they are also claiming he will sacrifice results in order to play expansive football. These labels are incorrect. He set Malaga up in a more defensive system in the knockout rounds, example being the first leg away in Porto. They still lost but they went on to win playing a more expansive and attacking formation in the home leg. They played two different formations reflecting the context of the game and the task in hand. I would share the same concerns as others if Pellegrini had put out the team he did on Monday despite having a fully fit Milner/Garcia on the bench. He didn't.

This is an interesting post. You are saying you think Pellegrini will be more defensive and solid when he needs to be, and when we have the players available.

My major concern has been that he won't do that no matter what. I'm
Just basing that on what I've heard and seen from him at City.

If you're saying he has made these adjustments at Malaga then that is encouraging. I hope you're right that when appropriate he takes a more practical approach at City. Only time will tell.

<a class="postlink" href="http://bitterandblue.sbnation.com/2013/7/10/4509144/pellegrinis-malaga" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://bitterandblue.sbnation.com/2013/ ... nis-malaga</a>

Someone else posted this, it is from the early rumours that Pellegrini would be taking over from Mancini - he hadn't been appointed yet. Doesn't refer to the intricate details but gives an insight to his alterations when the financial turmoil his Malaga and the change from possession based football to counter attacking to reflect the teams strengths. A feature of his sides is attacking full backs, with a defensive midfielder used to assist the centre backs when without the ball - similar to how Busquets would drop in to assist Pique and Puyol whilst Alves was overlapping for Barca.

It also demonstrates that Pellegrini will change things based on available players and the situation of the club.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/11/26/malaga-4-0-valencia-pellegrini-gets-the-better-of-pellegrino/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/11/26/ ... ellegrino/</a>

This link is from a particular game -it provides an in depth discussion of how Malaga played and is worth noting because it is evidence that Pellegrini's tactics can not be simply described as 4-4-2. They are not easy to put on paper. Note it still suggests a weakness defensively but attributes this more to the ability of the players than the system - and they still kept a clean sheet.

The next link is just a general summary of his time at Malaga;

"What is apparent is that Pellegrini’s tactically astute and composed manner revitalised a club that was going in the wrong direction at the start of the season. " note this description.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.football-espana.net/30893/pellegrini-dignified-engineer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.football-espana.net/30893/pe ... d-engineer</a>

Finally take a look at this summary;

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.givemesport.com/356321-manuel-pellegrini-is-the-right-man-for-manchester-city" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.givemesport.com/356321-manue ... ester-city</a>

and take note of section 2;

2. Tactical flexibility

Pellegrini is known for using a 4-2-2-2 formation and is always interested in playing two strikers at the front. He also used a 4-2-3-1 at Malaga, which proved very tough to break down at times last season.

City, on the other hand, are coming off a season where they played a stern three at the back which Mancini seemed too fond of to change.

Pellegrini might likely be using a 4-2-2-2 at City, and with the wealth of attacking and defensive midfielders he has, he is likely to be very successful doing that. An able trainer and manager, Pellegrini is very flexible when it comes to the tactics he uses with his sides. That would go a long way in helping him flourish in the highly demanding Premier League.

 

[Chris in London]

It's insane to think, in relative terms, what a force in World Football Scotland were in the 70's and 80's.

True, but this happens in football. The Magyars of 50-56 were perhaps the most revolutionary and talented team of all time. Hungary is not possessed of a vast population nor blessed with extensive resources. Belgium at the moment is punching hugely above its weight - look at some of their players - VK, Hazard, Fellaini (okay, bad example).

And yet countries with Huge resources available punch well below their weight. England has produced one really good team (maybe two) in forty years. Spain have enjoyed a purple patch for the last 7 or 8 years but punched well below their weight for a long time before that.

But you have a point about Scotland - Asa Hartford, Archie Gemmill, some great players.

If only they'd had a decent goalkeeper...

How dare you cast aspersions on Keith McRae.

I dare because if you cast aspersions at Keith Macrae they would go through his legs and into the net.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree totally with what you say - we need to be pragmatic too and I totally believe Pellegrini will be. Coming into the business end of the season should we need just a point I believe Pellegrini will set the side up in order to get that point. It is that he didn't have the players available to alter our formation and play more pragmatically. That is where my comments stemmed from. People are just labelling Pellegrini as being a one formation manager with an inability to be flexible, they are also claiming he will sacrifice results in order to play expansive football. These labels are incorrect. He set Malaga up in a more defensive system in the knockout rounds, example being the first leg away in Porto. They still lost but they went on to win playing a more expansive and attacking formation in the home leg. They played two different formations reflecting the context of the game and the task in hand. I would share the same concerns as others if Pellegrini had put out the team he did on Monday despite having a fully fit Milner/Garcia on the bench. He didn't.

This is an interesting post. You are saying you think Pellegrini will be more defensive and solid when he needs to be, and when we have the players available.

My major concern has been that he won't do that no matter what. I'm
Just basing that on what I've heard and seen from him at City.

If you're saying he has made these adjustments at Malaga then that is encouraging. I hope you're right that when appropriate he takes a more practical approach at City. Only time will tell.

<a class="postlink" href="http://bitterandblue.sbnation.com/2013/7/10/4509144/pellegrinis-malaga" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://bitterandblue.sbnation.com/2013/ ... nis-malaga</a>

Someone else posted this, it is from the early rumours that Pellegrini would be taking over from Mancini - he hadn't been appointed yet. Doesn't refer to the intricate details but gives an insight to his alterations when the financial turmoil his Malaga and the change from possession based football to counter attacking to reflect the teams strengths. A feature of his sides is attacking full backs, with a defensive midfielder used to assist the centre backs when without the ball - similar to how Busquets would drop in to assist Pique and Puyol whilst Alves was overlapping for Barca.

It also demonstrates that Pellegrini will change things based on available players and the situation of the club.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/11/26/malaga-4-0-valencia-pellegrini-gets-the-better-of-pellegrino/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/11/26/ ... ellegrino/</a>

This link is from a particular game -it provides an in depth discussion of how Malaga played and is worth noting because it is evidence that Pellegrini's tactics can not be simply described as 4-4-2. They are not easy to put on paper. Note it still suggests a weakness defensively but attributes this more to the ability of the players than the system - and they still kept a clean sheet.

The next link is just a general summary of his time at Malaga;

"What is apparent is that Pellegrini’s tactically astute and composed manner revitalised a club that was going in the wrong direction at the start of the season. " note this description.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.football-espana.net/30893/pellegrini-dignified-engineer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.football-espana.net/30893/pe ... d-engineer</a>

Finally take a look at this summary;

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.givemesport.com/356321-manuel-pellegrini-is-the-right-man-for-manchester-city" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.givemesport.com/356321-manue ... ester-city</a>

and take note of section 2;

2. Tactical flexibility

Pellegrini is known for using a 4-2-2-2 formation and is always interested in playing two strikers at the front. He also used a 4-2-3-1 at Malaga, which proved very tough to break down at times last season.

City, on the other hand, are coming off a season where they played a stern three at the back which Mancini seemed too fond of to change.

Pellegrini might likely be using a 4-2-2-2 at City, and with the wealth of attacking and defensive midfielders he has, he is likely to be very successful doing that. An able trainer and manager, Pellegrini is very flexible when it comes to the tactics he uses with his sides. That would go a long way in helping him flourish in the highly demanding Premier League.

All that stuff has been readily available and posted several times on the various incarnations of the Pellegrini thread. Shalum is no doubt aware of that. He's just ignored them every single time they've been posted because they don't fit his incredibly myopic views about the football we've played this season.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I think the posts from Shaelumtash, Dribble and Stoned rose take us to the heart of the matter when we are discussing Pellegrini. Is he a one formation manager who is able to challenge for trophies at City (and hopefully win them) only because he will have a team of players (superior enough to other teams0 available for long enough in a season that he can crush enough other teams? Or is he tactically flexible enough to change team selection and formation to suit the opposition when injuries and suspensions bite? I have to say that the little I saw of him at Malaga is inconclusive. In the first leg at home to Dortmund the Malaga midfield was shredded and Malaga very lucky to get away with a draw: by the second leg he had analysed where they were going wrong and they were desperately unlucky to go out. Against Barca in his last match, though, - and Barca have probably the best known and most studied midfield in the world - Malaga were so open that they were 4 down (within the first 20 minutes, I think). On Monday, not only was Fernandinho out, but all our other midfielders, and so in terms of players Pellegrini's choices were non-existent - MDM had to play. But I thought it was a real weakness that there were no changes to tactics and formation to make allowances for a third choice CB who was trying to do exactly the same job that a vital cog in the team does. I couldn't see how he could cope with the challenges posed by that Chelsea midfield.

Another great post Blue, I enjoy reading your posts as they are always balanced, articulate and considered.

I have not seen much of Pellegrini's teams before City, so I am not sure if his decisions this year have been typical for him or not.

It is difficult to evaluate whether his reluctance to shore up and become more solid when appropriate is down to his own beliefs about football, his tactical naivety, or his steadfast determination to stick to the new City "philosophy".

I think at this stage it's impossible to know which is the case.

Everyone is in agreement that when we have everyone fit and available, we are one hell of a side, right up there with the very best in Europe. Pellegrini has to take a lot of credit for that.

The problem is when we don't have a full strength team out, he seems to expect less capable players to do the exact same job as those they are replacing.

We've seen this many times when Kompany has been missing that he has expected much slower, less aggressive, less capable centre halves attempt to do the same job Vinny does. Also expecting MD to do the same job as Fernandinho as you pointed out.

I think if we can keep everyone fit, with Pellegrini's system and team harmony, we've got a very real chance of winning all 4 trophies. My concern is that if key players continue to get injured / our Plan A doesn't work, I'm not sure we are adaptable enough to cope with it.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

'better to die on your feet than live on your knees'

Pellegrini in one.

 

[Gillespie]

One reason Pellegrini keeps playing the same way is because he believes, with justification, that his side is better than the opposition. Why should he start by making concessions to the opponents in such circumstances? Chelsea had to adapt their gameplan to try and stop City because City have a better team. The plan worked for Chelsea because they scored first but City's approach could and should have yielded the first goal; unfortunately, City had two narrow misses from great opportunities that Chelsea were powerless to prevent i.e. that Chelsea didn't go behind owed nothing to the genius of Mourinho or fabulous defending by his team.

Chelsea did not have a better gameplan but on the day, the just managed to execute it better than a City side shorn of, arguably, it's three leading contenders for player of the season.

I think there are similarities between Pellegrini and Wenger.

Both have a belief and a system of play which they refuse to compromise in the face of cynical opponents.

They are purists and idealists. We should be glad of people like them. Our game would be poorer without them.

The game needs these romantics more than the philistines like Mourinho.

I thought you was a big maureen fan?

Not especially. Probably the worlds best manager at getting results but has no soul. Give me the romantics like AW or MP any day.<br /><br />-- Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:07 pm --<br /><br />

Mourinho's thugs will target MDM , regardless of where you put him, in defence or in midfield, it doesn't matter, they will find him and bully him.

-- Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:26 pm --



Don't be down. This saturday Arsenal will travel to Anfield. They will drop points. We will win against Norwich and get back to the summit.

You reckon?

Liverpool are strong side. Particularly at Anfield. I don't think Arsenal have a chance against them.

We will be back at the top of the table, where we belong. Everyone will be praising Pellegrini again.

I think Arsenal have a chance against them and a good one at that.

 

[Damocles]

By my count this is the fourth attempt at a Pellegrini thread and it's already been split several times.

If you can't post without arguing then don't post.