Discussing Religion with Kids

[Tuearts right boot]

So my 5 year old at school is starting to be taught religion and specifically Christianity. So with this it obviously raises questions for me - an atheist - the sort of response I should provide. He is asking to pray before bed and wants to visit church etc, which obviously I can't object to but equally am fairly uncomfortable with.

An emphasis on critical thinking though is also important. If you raise your children to be skeptical as a general rule, it shouldn't be necessary to go out of your way to have them treat religious claims skeptically. They should end up doing that on their own anyway. Skepticism and critical thinking are attitudes which should be cultivated across a broad range of topics, but again age comes in to this.

So, for parents who are not religious how do you broach the subject? Do you say you don't believe or just go along with it until your child comes to a certain age where he can more form his own opinions?

Just tell them to believe in themselves and nothing else, anything else is irrelevant.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Be hard push that considering the magnitude of church funded or part funded schools.

A formal complaint? I assume you have little idea of the deliverance of a curriculum that is decided and written in its content by the government’s DoE. Where did he say they were pushing one faith? Next half-term, they’ll probably be made aware of Islam, Hinduism or Judaism.

FWIW, I’m a teacher in a primary CoE school. I have, at no point in my life, believed in any higher power, God or religion and to be honest, majority of the families and parents of the school don’t care for it either. At no point, does anyone push faith views onto a child as it’s not allowed, and we always end with the quip “it’s your life to choose your beliefs in whatever you wish”.

I am a retired headteacher.
I know the law regarding RE.
You appear not to.
The National Curriculum RE document states…

“Every school governing body and LA is required by law to have an accessible and easily understood route through which parents and others can make a complaint about school or other educational matters, including RE. A copy of the local complaints procedure should be available in each school and the school prospectus must make reference to it. LAs can seek advice from their SACREs in addressing complaints about RE…”

 

[domalino]

I really object to the fact that RE is taught in schools when that time could be dedicated to much more important subjects.

One lesson is all they need. Should take no more than a few seconds...

"There's lots of different religions. Believe in what you want to believe and let others believe in what they want to believe."

Done.

85% of the world identifies as religious.

Learning about the 5 pillars of Islam, The 5 Ks of Sikhism, the story behind Buddha and the path of enlightenment, Purusartha and reincarnation in Hinduism as well as the differences between Judaism and Christianity made me a more open minded, tolerant and well rounded person.

It's no use saying "some people have other beliefs" if you don't learn what those beliefs are and why they're important to your fellow man.

The world would be a more tolerant place if we taught kids a bit more about the people they share the world with instead of regurgitating a few choice bits of ancient history in every key stage level.

 

[metalblue]

When my youngest asked to go to church. I took her the next Sunday. She never asked again. At no point did I offer an opinion on what I thought about religion, I listened intently to the sermon. If she had become a devout Christian (or whatever denomination) that would be her choice and I or her mum would’ve taken her to church every week. No questions.

It’s what parents should do. Imposing our opinions on others isn’t right. Although it’s fair to say her hatred of the scum is undoubtedly a result of me being a bit flexible around that.

 

[domalino]

As a retired teacher of Religious Studies, I am obviously going to disagree. But not for the reasons that you might think.

First of all - though I am only referring here to teaching at the secondary rather than primary level - quite a number of colleagues I worked with were atheists who just happened to be fascinated with religion as a social phenomenon or were attracted to the philosophical and ethical aspects of the subject. So there is not much danger of indoctrination.

Secondly, one of my own university teachers, John Bowker, wrote in the preface to one of the earliest GCSE textbooks that religion was worth learning about because of all the evil that had been perpetrated in the name of it. That’s a pretty good justification in my view.

Thirdly, the subject does tend to get taught in a manner that encourages critical thinking and intelligent scepticism. A quick look at any GCSE or A level syllabus will reveal that. Often, in the terminal GCSE examination itself, the most marks are awarded for questions in which the candidate has to critically evaluate statements such as ‘There are no convincing reasons to believe in God’, or ‘People who claim to have religious experiences are hallucinating’, or ‘There is no good evidence that we survive death.’

Fourthly, although secularisation is happening in some places, the world is still, rather unfortunately in my view, as furiously religious as it ever was in others. So from that point of view it can’t really be avoided.

Plus, people do seem to still yearn for what might be abstractly referred to as the transcendent, some kind of realm beyond the ego, even if they only achieve that through taking drugs, watching City humiliate United, or going to an event like Glastonbury.

Am currently reading Nick Cave and Sean O’Hagan’s book Faith, Hope and Carnage, in which Cave admits that he might have devoted a lot of energy to reflecting on a being that does not exist, but that faith (tempered by a lot of doubt) got him through the death of his son, still sustains him and continues to inspire his songwriting.

And Christopher Hitchens actually said something similar before he died, admitting, ‘I’m a materialist…yet there is something beyond the material or not entirely consistent with it, what you would call the Numinous, the Transcendent, or at best the Ecstatic…It’s in certain music, landscape, certain creative work; without this we really would merely be primates.’

Should add that I am in no position to make much sense of what Cave and Hitchens are on about as I have never had an experience of anything like that, though I do find music, art and literature to be transporting in a non-mystical sense.

Fifthly, doing an A Level in Religious Studies is one of the best ways to be introduced to atheistic thinking these days, namely, that of luminaries such as the wonderful David Hume, Bertrand Russell, AJ Ayer, Jeremy Bentham, JL Mackie and, of course, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.

In fact, one of the best and most resolutely sceptical philosophers around at the present time is a guy called Stephen Law, who often does workshops for sixth-formers. He is actually the author of a book called ‘Believing Bullshit’ which I once contemplated making one of the official textbooks for my A Level students, as the idea of their parents and fellow pupils stumbling across them reading it had a certain subversive appeal. Unfortunately, there wasn’t quite enough overlap between the content of the book and the syllabus that I was teaching at the time to justify that decision. But anyway, here he is in action:



I used to show that to my Year 9’s.

Finally, if Religious Studies was removed from the curriculum, there is a danger that the extremist and sometimes barking mad beliefs that some kids get from home would go unchallenged and would be left to incubate.

There is also a danger that - at A level - if they are studying History, English Literature, Art or even Economics, that a lack of knowledge of religion might leave them a bit of a disadvantage.

For example, Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations is as much a work of theology as it is of economics, something that would have been immediately apparent to its first readers but is scarcely appreciated now.

Having said that though, it wouldn’t bother me if the name of the subject was changed to ‘Philosophy’ or ‘World Views.’

As far as primary school kids are concerned, I don’t see any reason why they can’t be introduced to a bit of critical thinking even at that age, as there are books and courses designed to specifically do just that. See here:

P4C in the UK

P4C in the UK

www.philosophy-foundation.org

Pete Worley’s publications are really good for that as they are aimed at kids from about 5 upwards.

Anyway, this post is far too long. So will leave it there. Off to cook dinner and listen to Ghosteen again.

You've got a really good point that RE is the doorway in the school curriculum to half the university prospectus - philosophy, politics, anthropology, classics etc. and you're not going to get very far in law, psychology, sociology, geography or history without it.

 

[Plays By Sense Of Smell]

Came up for ours when had to address the nativity story. Went with plain awareness route, let them decide for themselves.

...'some people believe that....'

Considering they were already adept at seeing through my stories about dragons flying down to eat them if they didn't listen to me, they seemed to take the magical bits of the story well in their stride.

 

[BlueTG]

I am a retired headteacher.
I know the law regarding RE.
You appear not to.
The National Curriculum RE document states…

“Every school governing body and LA is required by law to have an accessible and easily understood route through which parents and others can make a complaint about school or other educational matters, including RE. A copy of the local complaints procedure should be available in each school and the school prospectus must make reference to it. LAs can seek advice from their SACREs in addressing complaints about RE…”

But where was the pushing of faith???

 

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

I really object to the fact that RE is taught in schools when that time could be dedicated to much more important subjects.

One lesson is all they need. Should take no more than a few seconds...

"There's lots of different religions. Believe in what you want to believe and let others believe in what they want to believe."

Done.

Even if those beliefs are racist (like those maintained by Aryan Nation in the USA, or the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa during the period of apartheid)?

Or homophobic (Westboro Baptist Church and other Christian denominations)?

Or encourage anti-Muslim bigotry (Buddhists in Myanmar)?

Or seek to place creationism on a par with evolutionary science in school textbooks (supporters of Intelligent Design in the USA) ?

Or regard the Democrats and prominent celebrities/world leaders as part of a satanic cabal who abuse children and harvest the drug adrenochrome from them (QAnon adherents)?

Or insist that women should wear the burka or the chador when they are out and about (Taliban, Iranian Shia orthodoxy) ?

Or depict Hitler as a hero in local school history text books (Hindu BJP supporters in the state of Gujarat) ?

Those are just a few examples I could think of off the top of my head. But you can probably tell where I am going with this.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Atheist married to a (once) Catholic from a VERY Catholic family. We say Grace at every meal at their house. I have always simply sat there quietly. To marry her, I had to go to Pre Cana (Catholic indoctrination for non-Catholics) and sign documents saying my children would be brought up Catholic. (That doesn’t sound like Scientology at all!!)

Both kids went to Catholic school and HATED IT!! As they grew up, they asked questions and I told them MY truth, which I didn’t aggrandize or underplay.

I spoke to the paternalism, the celibacy & abuse, the brutal wars fought over religion, and the thousands of religions and beliefs across the world which are at odds with each other.

Who is right?

What does science say?

What do THEY believe?

And, ask questions of yourself and others.

Today, we are an all adult family of FOUR atheists! My brother-in-law, who is a regular mega church attendee, laughingly calls me a “pagan!” I embrace it! :-)

 

[Big Joe Corrigan]

Atheist married to a (once) Catholic from a VERY Catholic family. We say Grace at every meal at their house. I have always simply sat there quietly. To marry her, I had to go to Pre Cana (Catholic indoctrination for non-Catholics) and sign documents saying my children would be brought up Catholic. (That doesn’t sound like Scientology at all!!)

Both kids went to Catholic school and HATED IT!! As they grew up, they asked questions and I told them MY truth, which I didn’t aggrandize or underplay.

I spoke to the paternalism, the celibacy & abuse, the brutal wars fought over religion, and the thousands of religions and beliefs across the world which are at odds with each other.

Who is right?

What does science say?

What do THEY believe?

And, ask questions of yourself and others.

Today, we are an all adult family of FOUR atheists! My brother-in-law, who is a regular mega church attendee, laughingly calls me a “pagan!” I embrace it! :-)

Amen.