Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

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chesterbells said:
Damocles said:
We can never be the behemoth without that acceptance. It's why Chelsea have still fell behind in a business and footballing sense over a decade after their takeover.

Our business model depends on our ability to attract new fans and give them something to emotionally hang their hat on in terms of "who Man City are", in the way that United, Arsenal and Liverpool have but Chelsea don't.

United fans rightly or wrongly could describe in great detail who United are as a club and if you got 100 fans to do this then 75% of them would be "on message" regarding Munich/the Busby Babes to the European Cup comeback, Alex Ferguson and Fergies Fledglings, constant youth development, the Stretford End and Best, Charlton and Law, etc. Arsenal fans would talk about Chapman's revolutions and then Wenger's revolutions on how he singlehandedly modernised the English game, how Arsenal play the best football and are single-minded in how they go about their business. Liverpool will talk about Shankly, the boot-room, Istanbul, Gerrard and Carragher and Owen and the rest of them.

My point is that each of these clubs have a mythos behind them that ties into their brand identity. Of course much of it is complete bollocks but that isn't important to the Beijing Massive who will watch Sky TV and listen to how these are "great clubs, different from any other". This obviously drives their revenue - not only because fans feel that certain traits that the club holds but also that advertisers will see that people associate these clubs with that trait and will want to cross-market themselves with them.

Chelsea have consistently struggled for revenue because they don't have this. They have the stink of new money, the image of oil baron running things, a suspect Russian in charge, no standardised way of playing football and a bunch of racist fans.

Again, this is obviously bollocks that doesn't take into account the great things that they have done but my point is that their brand image out in the wider world is not a positive one.

Our image is less vitriolic than Chelseas, and people tend to hate us less because of the local investments made and the fact that we don't really have many dislikeable players in our team. We do have the new money problem and we do have the oil baron problem and the FFP sanctions were extremely bad for us image wise, but outside of that we're doing better than Chelsea were in trying to pull back the stink of investment. With NYCFC and Melbourne we are creating new fans of the brand in the longer term - many of the NYCFC lot absolutely hate us now but these are the first responders/glory-hunting tossers who will be weeded out in the long run and their fanbase will become more sensible over time to see the shared relationship.

You talk of success and the need for it but I'd argue that in the modern global game, success alone isn't enough to build your business on top of and use not only Chelsea but many of the Italian clubs and the differences between Wolfsburg/Dortmund in Germany. We don't compete REALLY with the Evertons of the world in terms of building new sponsor relations and gaining a fanbase; we compete with Barca, Bayern, Real, United, Liverpool, Milan, Juve, Arsenal and Chelsea. They all have success as well so we're no different in that regard - what we're trying to do here is to create a "Man City Way".

To be honest, the Man City Way is basically what was always Typical City. But since the Swales Era the "brand" of our club has always been one of spectacular fuck ups with the opposite that people also claim to be part of the charm not being common enough. That's who we are to many outsiders and it's who we are to many City fans. We were essentially the bumbling but loveable sidekick of English football.

That isn't however who Abu Dhabi wants us to be. They as you point out want us to be liked and respected, rather than liked and patronised or respected but feared. They understand that this will help them achieve the goals that they have when buying the club and it will help us grow as a brand in the new battlegrounds of European football - the US, Africa and India. They want City to have a positive attitude in the minds of other people and unfortunately some sacrifices do need to be made around this idea, like not going and telling UEFA to fuck themselves and spending £500m.

We can talk on and on and on about the relative merits and faults with these ideas, but it's essentially fruitless as we'll conduct our business like that no matter what. We're not City's target audience any more, they already have us hooked. They are now arsed about the Chinese teenager shopping in their local sports shop and to get them to buy City's shirt, so that we have the revenues to compete with the biggest clubs in the world. Distasteful or not, it is the commercial realities of football in a UEFA driven world.

A good read that, nice one


Agree. Its a really interesting post on a very pertinent subject which is discussed under lots of different topics (Agenda etc). Is there a separate subject on Manchester City branding strategy (apologies if there is) but maybe Damocles post could kick it off? Big business spends millions on Branding. When its well done it is a very major factor in Corporate success. How well we do it is worth a discussion.
 
Marvin said:
Mister Appointment said:
nomorethaksintimes said:
Didn't know whether to post here or the Klopp thread.

__

Some of this thread is a bit embarrassing. Giddy people posting vines of Klopp jumping up and down in a tracksuit like that will fix things or that it somehow makes him better than Pellegrini. It's like teenage girls getting excited by a new boyband. Cringeworthy.

Pellegrini seems to have been caricaturized as some dour, uninspired chequebook manager by some on here. He clearly isn't arsed about the media side of his job and his English is limited in press conferences. This strongly affects the way fans perceive him but neither of these things are of any consequence with the players/ his ability to do the job. After two years in England, Mourinho and Pelle will have a league and league cup to their name each - but one is now being labelled a managerial genius by the press whilst Pelle's initial achievements were met with apathy.

If Pellegrini was such a wet towel, then his achievements at Villareal and Malaga (particuarly when the financial ship was sinking and he firefighting on all fronts whilst taking them on an amazing Champions league run) wouldn't have been possible. And the points total he achieved at Madrid alone deserves respect. This season is probably one of his worst in recent memory and we could still finish second. This is a manager who has consistently got the best out of his players over the last decade and before he came here was widely recognised as one of the best man managers in the world. This hasn't changed overnight.

Personally, I think Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top classes manages with little between them (media perceptions/press conference entertainment aside. The players are the main problem - many lacking either technically or mentally.

If your opinion is that Pellegrini should go, fine. But calling him a joker etc does a great disservice to his managerial record and shows your own naiviety. With Klopp or Pellegrini or any other top-class manager we'll be fine providing we get the considerable amount of deadwood out and the directors actually sign some world-class talent for once.

Top post. Well said.
I am not sure about the comparison between Pep, Klopp and Pellegrini.....
Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top class managers with little between them.
Prior to winning the title with Mancini's team, what did Pellegrini achieve in Europe? The Intertoto Cup and he had a good record with small teams. Well so did Moyes.

Guardiola built a dynasty at Barcelona and has followed Heynckes at Bayern.

Klopp built a team at Dortmund and won 2 league titles and took his team to the Champions League

He has got charisma and he reminds me of Mourinho when he first came on the scene at Porto.

Klopp has had a bad season. That should worry anyone and raise question marks, but they have a policy, forced on them or not, of selling their best players.

Klopp's Dortmund is an expression of his personality. It's very much a Klopp team. Guardiola is intense and meticulous and everything is planned and worked on. I believe he works on closing down and who does what when they lose possession, everything is planned out.

But I don't have any kind if idea what City are trying to do in games.

Klopp is the most credible manager out there, and the inferior performances and results now last 4 months. I know Klopp went through a similar period, but he has come out the other side and has more credibility in my eyes. We just can't go into next season with Pellegrini in charge. He's not a figurehead or leader, he's just a man I feel a little bit sorry for who seems to have lost his group of players.
For me the most credible manager out there is Ancelotti.

The fact what might keep him in a job is being the first ever manager to retain the CL (having won it twice as much as anyone else) or beating possibly the best attack ever assembled to the title just shows that.

I appreciate I'm in a minority but I'd be disappointed if we passed up Carlo for Pep or Klopp.
 
Marvin said:
Mister Appointment said:
nomorethaksintimes said:
Didn't know whether to post here or the Klopp thread.

__

Some of this thread is a bit embarrassing. Giddy people posting vines of Klopp jumping up and down in a tracksuit like that will fix things or that it somehow makes him better than Pellegrini. It's like teenage girls getting excited by a new boyband. Cringeworthy.

Pellegrini seems to have been caricaturized as some dour, uninspired chequebook manager by some on here. He clearly isn't arsed about the media side of his job and his English is limited in press conferences. This strongly affects the way fans perceive him but neither of these things are of any consequence with the players/ his ability to do the job. After two years in England, Mourinho and Pelle will have a league and league cup to their name each - but one is now being labelled a managerial genius by the press whilst Pelle's initial achievements were met with apathy.

If Pellegrini was such a wet towel, then his achievements at Villareal and Malaga (particuarly when the financial ship was sinking and he firefighting on all fronts whilst taking them on an amazing Champions league run) wouldn't have been possible. And the points total he achieved at Madrid alone deserves respect. This season is probably one of his worst in recent memory and we could still finish second. This is a manager who has consistently got the best out of his players over the last decade and before he came here was widely recognised as one of the best man managers in the world. This hasn't changed overnight.

Personally, I think Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top classes manages with little between them (media perceptions/press conference entertainment aside. The players are the main problem - many lacking either technically or mentally.

If your opinion is that Pellegrini should go, fine. But calling him a joker etc does a great disservice to his managerial record and shows your own naiviety. With Klopp or Pellegrini or any other top-class manager we'll be fine providing we get the considerable amount of deadwood out and the directors actually sign some world-class talent for once.

Top post. Well said.
I am not sure about the comparison between Pep, Klopp and Pellegrini.....
Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top class managers with little between them.
Prior to winning the title with Mancini's team, what did Pellegrini achieve in Europe? The Intertoto Cup and he had a good record with small teams. Well so did Moyes.

Guardiola built a dynasty at Barcelona and has followed Heynckes at Bayern.

Klopp built a team at Dortmund and won 2 league titles and took his team to the Champions League

He has got charisma and he reminds me of Mourinho when he first came on the scene at Porto.

Klopp has had a bad season. That should worry anyone and raise question marks, but they have a policy, forced on them or not, of selling their best players.

Klopp's Dortmund is an expression of his personality. It's very much a Klopp team. Guardiola is intense and meticulous and everything is planned and worked on. I believe he works on closing down and who does what when they lose possession, everything is planned out.

But I don't have any kind if idea what City are trying to do in games.

Klopp is the most credible manager out there, and the inferior performances and results now last 4 months. I know Klopp went through a similar period, but he has come out the other side and has more credibility in my eyes. We just can't go into next season with Pellegrini in charge. He's not a figurehead or leader, he's just a man I feel a little bit sorry for who seems to have lost his group of players.


Bang on the money Marv.

You are just one miserable cnut who cannot accept anything that Pellers has done either here or abroad.
 
mosssideblue said:
Marvin said:
Mister Appointment said:
Top post. Well said.
I am not sure about the comparison between Pep, Klopp and Pellegrini.....
Klopp/Guardiola/Pellegrini are all top class managers with little between them.
Prior to winning the title with Mancini's team, what did Pellegrini achieve in Europe? The Intertoto Cup and he had a good record with small teams. Well so did Moyes.

Guardiola built a dynasty at Barcelona and has followed Heynckes at Bayern.

Klopp built a team at Dortmund and won 2 league titles and took his team to the Champions League

He has got charisma and he reminds me of Mourinho when he first came on the scene at Porto.

Klopp has had a bad season. That should worry anyone and raise question marks, but they have a policy, forced on them or not, of selling their best players.

Klopp's Dortmund is an expression of his personality. It's very much a Klopp team. Guardiola is intense and meticulous and everything is planned and worked on. I believe he works on closing down and who does what when they lose possession, everything is planned out.

But I don't have any kind if idea what City are trying to do in games.

Klopp is the most credible manager out there, and the inferior performances and results now last 4 months. I know Klopp went through a similar period, but he has come out the other side and has more credibility in my eyes. We just can't go into next season with Pellegrini in charge. He's not a figurehead or leader, he's just a man I feel a little bit sorry for who seems to have lost his group of players.


Bang on the money Marv.

You are just one miserable cnut who cannot accept anything that Pellers has done either here or abroad.
I am miserable when City lose and happy when we win, that's the nature of being a football fan.

I am also a blue who has been following City for 40 years and I always like to treat people with a bit of respect.

In my opinion you're doing exactly what I have done many times in the past re Hughes, and Mancini and defended them against all comers because they were dear to you. But in hindsight when the club changes manager, the blinkers fall away and you can become objective.
 
Marvin said:
mosssideblue said:
Marvin said:
I am not sure about the comparison between Pep, Klopp and Pellegrini.....

Prior to winning the title with Mancini's team, what did Pellegrini achieve in Europe? The Intertoto Cup and he had a good record with small teams. Well so did Moyes.

Guardiola built a dynasty at Barcelona and has followed Heynckes at Bayern.

Klopp built a team at Dortmund and won 2 league titles and took his team to the Champions League

He has got charisma and he reminds me of Mourinho when he first came on the scene at Porto.

Klopp has had a bad season. That should worry anyone and raise question marks, but they have a policy, forced on them or not, of selling their best players.

Klopp's Dortmund is an expression of his personality. It's very much a Klopp team. Guardiola is intense and meticulous and everything is planned and worked on. I believe he works on closing down and who does what when they lose possession, everything is planned out.

But I don't have any kind if idea what City are trying to do in games.

Klopp is the most credible manager out there, and the inferior performances and results now last 4 months. I know Klopp went through a similar period, but he has come out the other side and has more credibility in my eyes. We just can't go into next season with Pellegrini in charge. He's not a figurehead or leader, he's just a man I feel a little bit sorry for who seems to have lost his group of players.


Bang on the money Marv.

You are just one miserable cnut who cannot accept anything that Pellers has done either here or abroad.
I am miserable when City lose and happy when we win, that's the nature of being a football fan.

I am also a blue who has been following City for 40 years and I always like to treat people with a bit of respect.

In my opinion you're doing exactly what I have done many times in the past re Hughes, and Mancini and defended them against all comers because they were dear to you. But in hindsight when the club changes manager, the blinkers fall away and you can become objective.


Marv. I have no personal axe to grind with you but your recent posts actually contradict your said values.

We have been winning recently, yet your posts have remained morose. If you have been following City for 40 years (relevance?), you should be of a mature enough age to understand what your posting is overly negative with more than enough anti City sub tones contained within them, particularly towards the Manager and those above him.

Pellers isn't "dear to me" but I am able to appreciate that he is a good manager and deserves credit for his achievements. You however, refuse to acknowledge any credit that he has earnt either here or abroad and seem unable to apportion blame anywhere other that his doorstep. That is not treating people with respect.

You wax lyrical over Klopp, probably because he is more extrovert than Pellers, but if he does arrive, there is no guarantee anything will change in terms of performance or results. If Klopp is our manager next season and we have another mare, will you be banging on about wanting him out because he's clueless too?

You continue a crusade that suggests the City board are doing nothing behind the scenes to put things right, which, unless you are ITK, is pure speculation on your part.

No one would disagree with you that we have had a poor season, and you do have some support on BM thinking that it is all the managers fault, but the reality is it isn't.

I will be happy if Pellers is here next year and I will also respect the clubs decision if he is moved on, but I'm not convinced any new manager would have done better this season with the players we have.
 
"... we have had a poor season, and you do have some support on BM thinking that it is all the managers fault, but the reality is it isn't.

I will be happy if Pellers is here next year and I will also respect the clubs decision if he is moved on, but I'm not convinced any new manager would have done better this season with the players we have.[/quote]

Bang on the money for me this.
 
If we get a new manager let us hope he is very successful. If he has a bad season and we have to get rid of him we will then be moving on to our fifth manager in 8 years. We would certainly be derided by the press and other fans.

I am not at all convinced about Klopp. He was lucky enough to have a group of exceptional young players come through the ranks at Dortmund and he got them working with great intensity. Not remotely like the players he would be inheriting at City.
 
mosssideblue said:
Marvin said:
mosssideblue said:
Bang on the money Marv.

You are just one miserable cnut who cannot accept anything that Pellers has done either here or abroad.
I am miserable when City lose and happy when we win, that's the nature of being a football fan.

I am also a blue who has been following City for 40 years and I always like to treat people with a bit of respect.

In my opinion you're doing exactly what I have done many times in the past re Hughes, and Mancini and defended them against all comers because they were dear to you. But in hindsight when the club changes manager, the blinkers fall away and you can become objective.


Marv. I have no personal axe to grind with you but your recent posts actually contradict your said values.

We have been winning recently, yet your posts have remained morose. If you have been following City for 40 years (relevance?), you should be of a mature enough age to understand what your posting is overly negative with more than enough anti City sub tones contained within them, particularly towards the Manager and those above him.

Pellers isn't "dear to me" but I am able to appreciate that he is a good manager and deserves credit for his achievements. You however, refuse to acknowledge any credit that he has earnt either here or abroad and seem unable to apportion blame anywhere other that his doorstep. That is not treating people with respect.

You wax lyrical over Klopp, probably because he is more extrovert than Pellers, but if he does arrive, there is no guarantee anything will change in terms of performance or results. If Klopp is our manager next season and we have another mare, will you be banging on about wanting him out because he's clueless too?

You continue a crusade that suggests the City board are doing nothing behind the scenes to put things right, which, unless you are ITK, is pure speculation on your part.

No one would disagree with you that we have had a poor season, and you do have some support on BM thinking that it is all the managers fault, but the reality is it isn't.

I will be happy if Pellers is here next year and I will also respect the clubs decision if he is moved on, but I'm not convinced any new manager would have done better this season with the players we have.
At the risk of getting more peoples' backs up I think there are other factors too. Kompany earlier on in the season was very poor. He was tying really hard recently, but I think he and several of the players like Toure did not take the start of the season seriously or some of the Cup games. And that hasn't helped.

But the manager should be in control of that and deal with it. He should see it developing and try and respond in some way, although I accept in FFP and the days of player power, a manager can live and die by his players.

Getting beat by Barca in the end was no problem. But the performances against CSKA and the Cup games were really really bad. The home game against CSKA was absolutely shambolic for a team that is desperately trying to make an impression in Europe. I know a manager can not be held responsible for everything, but City have certainly stopped progressing as a team, and have gone quite a bit backwards. Most clubs go through a spell of 3 weeks or so where form dips, but this is 4 months. It must start ringing alarm bells at some point.
 
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