Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

[BillyShears]

Not good. My season ticket will be up for rent along with de niro's.

Just out of curiosity, would you change your mind if it transpired that Pellegrini had decided to do away with playing with two forwards and build a team around a pure 433 system ?

No mate, it wouldn't. He just hasn't convinced me one iota - in game management, set pieces, subs etc etc

Fair enough. I'm not sure I can agree with that he's been as unconvincing as that. The root of my issues is that I feel like he's been too dogmatic in how he's approached using his squad, maybe to the extent that I don't feel he's got the best use out of the tools at his disposal. However I don't think that that's something which can't be rectified because I think it's difficult sometimes with older players who maybe don't feel they need to run as hard as they did when they were in their early 20's. That's not an excuse btw for the weaknesses as I see them in MP's managerial make up.

I asked the question because I think I'd be much more optimistic about next season, even with MP in charge, if I felt that we would buy players this summer to play a pure 433 as we have done in our last two matches. Watch hi start Dzeko and Kun tomorrow now ... :)

 

[Bill]

I am dreading the game tomorrow. I hate seeing by beloved blues playing so badly with no direction. I will be tuning in but only to watch harry kane, maybe david silva. what happens when he goes? nothing to see .

 

[blueinsa]

I am dreading the game tomorrow. I hate seeing by beloved blues playing so badly with no direction. I will be tuning in but only to watch harry kane, maybe david silva. what happens when he goes? nothing to see .

Brilliant ;-)

 

[BillyShears]

I don't care much whether we stick with Pellegrini or find a suitable alternative. The most important thing is that we try and recruit players that fit in with the system we are trying to play or the manager adjusts his tactics to play to the strengths of the players we have.

At present this doesn't seem to be happening. We are attempting to play a high defensive line and press higher up the pitch. However we don't currently have the players to play this system effectively and we don't seem to be buying players for this style of play either (e.g. Bony and Fernando).

Pressing is good when done consistently and effectively but if it is done in a half hearted way, it leaves opposition players with time to pick their passes and huge spaces for them to play in which constantly exposes the defence. That's why we look pretty good for the first 20 mins but then poor when we run out of steam and can no longer press in an effective manner.

I'm not sure that Bony and Fernando can't play in a system where players have to press the ball - but other than that I would agree with the gist of that post. Recruitment of players this summer is far more important than the managerial decision, because we can get the managerial decision right but with the wrong recruitment still fall backwards again next season - and on the flipside if we get the recruitment right I think even with Pellegrini in charge we can be much stronger and much improved on this season.

I have seen nothing of Bony at Swansea, Ivory Coast and City to make me believe he is capable of sustaining any kind of pressing game, though maybe it's never really been required of him. Fernando just isn't mobile enough to effectively fit into that system but again that could be down to generally being paired in CM with other fairly immobile players such as Toure and Lampard.

The main thing is to decide how we're going to play and then ship our players from our current squad that don't suit and bring in new ones that do.

IMO you don't need 11 players who can press the ball really well, you need six or seven balanced throughout the side. There will always be one or two who aren't as quick or aren't as mobile, but pressing is as much about game intelligence as it is about physical effort. You have to know when to press and where to press.

I think our problems in midfield have been unique because we have a unique player in Toure who has brought a lot of positives to the table, but in Pellegrini's system, also a lot of negatives. I'm looking forward to seeing how we deal with his potential departure because it's an opportunity to put together a much more balanced and energetic midfield.

 

[Rammy Blue]

I am dreading the game tomorrow. I hate seeing by beloved blues playing so badly with no direction. I will be tuning in but only to watch harry kane, maybe david silva. what happens when he goes? nothing to see .

Brilliant ;-)

I remember Bill turning up to a piss up with his clown face on.

 

[jollylescott]

In all seriousness, I don't think it's wise to have such a big summer of player recruitment whilst we have question marks hanging over the manager.

if I was a top drawer player I would be wanting certain assurances about who my manager was likely to be etc before committing.

If we kept MP and got off to a shitter we'd have to fire him and that would set us back immeasurably.

You would have to think that if we are having discussions with a top class player, then that player would, as part of that conversation, be told who the manager is going to be next season. I actually hope that this is already locked in, but who knows.

One of the reasons that I do support a change of manager is that we need every competitive edge that we can get when going in for these top players.i think it would be a help if we told a potential recruit that Klopp or Ancelotti is going to be the manager next season. I like Pellers but he doesn't have the same level of appeal to star players as some of the other candidates.

 

[blueparrot]

In all seriousness, I don't think it's wise to have such a big summer of player recruitment whilst we have question marks hanging over the manager.

if I was a top drawer player I would be wanting certain assurances about who my manager was likely to be etc before committing.

If we kept MP and got off to a shitter we'd have to fire him and that would set us back immeasurably.

I like him but that's my stance right now.

He was only ever a short, 3 year appointment and I've seen nothing to suggest that's changed.

Huge investment on the playing side this summer requires a new long term solution at the helm to lead it imo.

Iv'e said it before but isn't that the main argument for having a DOF' in Europe managers / coaches come and go all the time and players from the continent are used to that concept and comfortable playing in a coaches last season. If the DOF signs the right players for a 433 then the squad will be more adaptable.
So far Txiki hasn't,t really signed any players to go into the front 5 for the first them which is why I think we have been reluctant to play with one up,as I don't,t think we have the wide players to play either side of Aguero.
I think this summer those 2 positions will be filled along with a Yaya replacement. Those players will be suitable for Pellegrini and any replacement the club have in mind.

 

[Rammy Blue]

Just out of curiosity, would you change your mind if it transpired that Pellegrini had decided to do away with playing with two forwards and build a team around a pure 433 system ?

No mate, it wouldn't. He just hasn't convinced me one iota - in game management, set pieces, subs etc etc

Fair enough. I'm not sure I can agree with that he's been as unconvincing as that. The root of my issues is that I feel like he's been too dogmatic in how he's approached using his squad, maybe to the extent that I don't feel he's got the best use out of the tools at his disposal. However I don't think that that's something which can't be rectified because I think it's difficult sometimes with older players who maybe don't feel they need to run as hard as they did when they were in their early 20's. That's not an excuse btw for the weaknesses as I see them in MP's managerial make up.

I asked the question because I think I'd be much more optimistic about next season, even with MP in charge, if I felt that we would buy players this summer to play a pure 433 as we have done in our last two matches. Watch hi start Dzeko and Kun tomorrow now ... :)

I'm in iPad mate so can't edit as effectively as I'd like.

Your first part about being too dogmatic, but imo it's much worse than that. The continuous rotation of defence, the 4-4-2 with Yaya and Fern as examples. I know we are currently sat second but that is scant consolation for letting a pretty average Chelsea side romp away to the title.

As much as de Niro is taking the piss, I semi agree that I have been bored shitless a lot of times at the Etihad this year and for a squad as good as ours that really isn't acceptable.

It's been an absolute horror show of a season and the only time we have been consistent is when we were forced to play without a striker! That says it all to me about MP.

 

[Rammy Blue]

In all seriousness, I don't think it's wise to have such a big summer of player recruitment whilst we have question marks hanging over the manager.

if I was a top drawer player I would be wanting certain assurances about who my manager was likely to be etc before committing.

If we kept MP and got off to a shitter we'd have to fire him and that would set us back immeasurably.

You would have to think that if we are having discussions with a top class player, then that player would, as part of that conversation, be told who the manager is going to be next season. I actually hope that this is already locked in, but who knows.

One of the reasons that I do support a change of manager is that we need every competitive edge that we can get when going in for these top players.i think it would be a help if we told a potential recruit that Klopp or Ancelotti is going to be the manager next season. I like Pellers but he doesn't have the same level of appeal to star players as some of the other candidates.

I agree with your sentiment mate, but surely you can't tell a player that a yet to be named manager is going to take over?

 

[lancs blue]

Just out of curiosity, would you change your mind if it transpired that Pellegrini had decided to do away with playing with two forwards and build a team around a pure 433 system ?

No mate, it wouldn't. He just hasn't convinced me one iota - in game management, set pieces, subs etc etc

Fair enough. I'm not sure I can agree with that he's been as unconvincing as that. The root of my issues is that I feel like he's been too dogmatic in how he's approached using his squad, maybe to the extent that I don't feel he's got the best use out of the tools at his disposal. However I don't think that that's something which can't be rectified because I think it's difficult sometimes with older players who maybe don't feel they need to run as hard as they did when they were in their early 20's. That's not an excuse btw for the weaknesses as I see them in MP's managerial make up.

I asked the question because I think I'd be much more optimistic about next season, even with MP in charge, if I felt that we would buy players this summer to play a pure 433 as we have done in our last two matches. Watch hi start Dzeko and Kun tomorrow now ... :)

I'd be delighted if he played 4-3-3, not sure we've currently got the squad for it but with the EDS/Academy sides playing it you have to think it's the long-term solution, which still begs the question of why appoint a manager who is so wedded to 4-4-2/4-2-2-2.