Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini (2014/15)

[Marvin]

We went to Barcelona 2-1 down in the worst possible moment we have been in in recent memory

It's disappointing to go out. But I can't be annoyed and don't see how anyone else can

What's annoying are losing to teams that are better than us

I think an in form City team could beat Barcelona . And what it to City's and Pellegrini's great credit is that we had a go at Barcelona. We tried to play. We didn't hide.

Some people say that that is a fault. I don't think so. It's for the long term benefit of this club. And I applaud Pellegrini for doing that before his own personal interests. He could easily have sent City out not to lose and to do a damage limitation job, but he stuck to his principles

Well Done Pellegrini

On to what will be a very difficult game at the weekend.

Time to stick together now.

 

[cleavers]

For starters, the entire midfield would need rebuilding from the ground up. That means Silva, Nasri, Toure, Fernandinho, Fernando, and Milner would all IMO need to be replaced.

I don't think it needs to be that radical, Silva and Fernandhino can easily play in a pressing team, and probably Milner too should he decide to stay, though I'm not sure his passing is quite up to it.

I've never seen pep coming here, always thought it was very optimistic, Klopp perhaps might, but a clear out is required, we will need 5 or 6 players, and we need to integrate some of the younger players out on loan.

Keep, Hart, Zab, Kompany, Mangala, Demechelis, Fernandhino, Silva, Aguero.

Milner (if we can), Navas, and Clichy keep as back up.

Lampard (obviously), Nasri, Toure, Dzeko, Kolarov, and Jovetic to go.

Fernando, and Bony, to be given another chance, but I don't have great hopes for either establishing themselves at a level we need them too.

 

[lancs blue]

We went to Barcelona 2-1 down in the worst possible moment we have been in in recent memory

It's disappointing to go out. But I can't be annoyed and don't see how anyone else can

What's annoying are losing to teams that are better than us

I think an in form City team could beat Barcelona . And what it to City's and Pellegrini's great credit is that we had a go at Barcelona. We tried to play. We didn't hide.

Some people say that that is a fault. I don't think so. It's for the long term benefit of this club. And I applaud Pellegrini for doing that before his own personal interests. He could easily have sent City out not to lose and to do a damage limitation job, but he stuck to his principles

Well Done Pellegrini

On to what will be a very difficult game at the weekend.

Time to stick together now.

Damage limitation was precisely what we did for the first 15-20mins and that was the right idea, press hard and don't concede early. I'm not so sure that was MP sticking to his principles but it was the correct approach and we had more than our expected share of possession in that period as well. It only went wrong when Nasri and Toure failed to do their job tracking back and Rakitic was allowed acres of space to run into unchallenged. After that we had little option but to be more open which left us vulnerable to numerous counters from Barca. I don't buy the general idea on the match and post-match threads that we were crap last night. You have to take into account that Barca's front three are on another level entirely. Yes it's a level we're aspiring to reach but we're still some way off it.

 

[PragueBlue]

For starters, the entire midfield would need rebuilding from the ground up. That means Silva, Nasri, Toure, Fernandinho, Fernando, and Milner would all IMO need to be replaced.

I don't think it needs to be that radical, Silva and Fernandhino can easily play in a pressing team, and probably Milner too should he decide to stay, though I'm not sure his passing is quite up to it.

I've never seen pep coming here, always thought it was very optimistic, Klopp perhaps might, but a clear out is required, we will need 5 or 6 players, and we need to integrate some of the younger players out on loan.

Keep, Hart, Zab, Kompany, Mangala, Demechelis, Fernandhino, Silva, Aguero.

Milner (if we can), Navas, and Clichy keep as back up.

Lampard (obviously), Nasri, Toure, Dzeko, Kolarov, and Jovetic to go.

Fernando, and Bony, to be given another chance, but I don't have great hopes for either establishing themselves at a level we need them too.

I'm not even sure we want to play a pressing game. Buys like Fernando and Bony would suggest not.

Personally I think we'd be better deciding on a style of play (pressing with high defensive line and front foot defending or 2 banks of defenders sitting deeper that we had under Mancini etc) and then replacing players that can't or won't play that style with those who can. It seems at the moment that we are just buying decent (but not top level) players and trying to shoehorn them into a system that they are not suited for.

I'd agree with those who we should keep and those who should go if we are to try a pressing type of game. I thought that was always the sort of style that Pellegrini went for but we have seen little evidence of it so far. I'd like him to get a chance to bring in the players that HE wants and see if he can implement it.

 

[teddykgb]

I was actually really encouraged by the manager last night. It's probably a sign of the pressure he is under, but he was making changes during the match and trying to find a winning formula. He briefly moved Milner into a striker-like role, then swapped Milner for Yaya off the striker. Both moves gave us strength -- in particular I thought Milner's pressing from the front allowed us to turn them over in dangerous positions, which is very unusual for us. But even the Yaya forward move that followed made us much more stout in midfield and cut down the acres of space Barcelona had had all match.

Yes, I know many have been screaming about this issue all season (myself included) and it is tough to watch a manager not change it, but part of this job is man management and I can understand that it isn't as simple as we'd like it to be. If Manuel is pulling on this string, I'm strangely optimistic about our chances the rest of the way. I just hope he sees/saw it the same way and sticks to these types of ideas. If we finally learned last night, for sure, that Yaya in a CM role (probably not even just a 2, I'm not even sure about a 3 at this point) isn't going to work and that we need to ensure our strikers defend from the front, then we might be able to string together the results we need to consolidate 2nd place and move on toward next year.

I'd be tempted to keep Milner up front for the remainder of the season, to be honest. He's definitely not a conventional striker, but that work rate up top is something we're sorely missing in a side that is trying to play a high line. With the talent at our disposal, turnovers in the attacking third or middle third are so incredibly dangerous. Part of our "problem" is that we always win the ball back very deep and have to play long passing maneuvers up the pitch to get to attack, resulting in teams being able to set up shop, especially given how slowly we get forward. Good, consistent pressing has always been a solution for us, we just never seem to have players on the pitch who can close down all potential passes -- lots of defenders and midfielders who defend space instead of marking a man.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

Yep - said that to my mates in the pub before the game - hope he starts with Navas - but I got why he chose Nasri - for ball retention - but he didn't turn up and I blame him for losing the ball in a positive situation which led to their break for the goal

I never would have started Nasri. We needed someone who could help neutralize Neymar. Can't imagine anyone before the game thought that Nasri was the guy for that. Should have been Jimmy on the right.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Sorry .... worked in Geneva for 15 years so can speak French reasonably well. Just very very slowly and without any semblance of a sense of humour.

TOUT DE SUITE

PM ME TOUT SUITE PLEASE !

My wife approves of you correcting my French.

 

[OB1]

I think you are giving us too much credit. We've won the league yes and that's not to be debated... but with the squad we have and in comparison to others we should have been winning it. We should have won it for the past three years really. Barcelona are a million miles ahead of us. There's not a side in the country who could have dealt with that last night. Even the organisation of Chelsea would have struggled with Messi's constant mix of direct running, quick pass and move football and his ability to pass it behind our defence onto a sixpence. He was incredible.

We lacked the fight required from the whole squad. Yaya was jogging around the middle then gesticulating when Barca carved us open. I've not seen a single game in Europe where all of our team has been on the money. That's why we are out of the competition again. Barca make us look like amateurs, we struggle to keep the ball and that's because we just aren't good enough. The toughest domestic competition? I'm not so sure. I think we get a lot of time on the ball and I think generally we are our own worse enemy on the pitch. The reason we drop points tends to be over committing players forward and conceding on the break, or failing to break teams down. I'd say it's more competitive because the top sides have dramatically declined.

When we won the league in 2012 we were developing as a side. The likes of Barry, Lescott etc were good at domestic level but no where near what is required in Europe. Look at some of the other sides to have won the prem - Vidic and Wio - a class act across Europe, Chelsea had Claude Makelele in their title winning sides with Mourinho's first stint and John Terry another consistent and renowned defender. I think the level is starting to improve but Fabregas has been one of the best players here, he wasn't in Barca's first team plans... we've had to re-assess because of FFP but I hope we can now lure some of the top class players from across the World to the club to take us to that next level.

We need to open our eyes to the quality of Real, Bayern and Barca and look to emulate their squads. Domestically we are good but all English sides are out of Europe now aside from Everton in the Europa league - where are they in the league now?! Whilst Chelsea and Arsenal probably should have gone through, they have players who will improve as they get towards their peak. We have players generally past that which is even more problematic.

Time to press re-fresh I think. Time to build for the future by getting some pace and hunger into the side with younger players. It might cost a lot and people say it's not fantasy football. Do those same people see Real Madrid and Bayern Munich's squads... tell me that's not fantasy football!

Have to agree with all that.

This summer needs to see a major refresh of the squad; have thought that for some time now.

However, the immediate issue is that Pellegrini needs to get his charges playing with some panache and confidence in the league.

 

[baildon blue]

I think if we can finish the league season a strong 2nd .
I reckon Pellergrini should be given another season .
He needs to stick with Same back 4 for the rest of the season .
And a settled midfield .

 

[BlueDeadHead]

We went to Barcelona 2-1 down in the worst possible moment we have been in in recent memory

It's disappointing to go out. But I can't be annoyed and don't see how anyone else can

What's annoying are losing to teams that are better than us

I think an in form City team could beat Barcelona . And what it to City's and Pellegrini's great credit is that we had a go at Barcelona. We tried to play. We didn't hide.

Some people say that that is a fault. I don't think so. It's for the long term benefit of this club. And I applaud Pellegrini for doing that before his own personal interests. He could easily have sent City out not to lose and to do a damage limitation job, but he stuck to his principles

Well Done Pellegrini

On to what will be a very difficult game at the weekend.

Time to stick together now.

If it wasn't for a game of a lifetime for Joe Hart we would have lost 6 or 7 -1 on aggregate. Last night was an utter disaster with MP, Nasri, and Yaya leading the way.

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

We went to Barcelona 2-1 down in the worst possible moment we have been in in recent memory

It's disappointing to go out. But I can't be annoyed and don't see how anyone else can

What's annoying are losing to teams that are better than us

I think an in form City team could beat Barcelona . And what it to City's and Pellegrini's great credit is that we had a go at Barcelona. We tried to play. We didn't hide.

Some people say that that is a fault. I don't think so. It's for the long term benefit of this club. And I applaud Pellegrini for doing that before his own personal interests. He could easily have sent City out not to lose and to do a damage limitation job, but he stuck to his principles

Well Done Pellegrini

On to what will be a very difficult game at the weekend.

Time to stick together now.

If it wasn't for a game of a lifetime for Joe Hart we would have lost 6 or 7 -1 on aggregate. Last night was an utter disaster with MP, Nasri, and Yaya leading the way.

So tell us why MP was so bad.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

We went to Barcelona 2-1 down in the worst possible moment we have been in in recent memory

It's disappointing to go out. But I can't be annoyed and don't see how anyone else can

What's annoying are losing to teams that are better than us

I think an in form City team could beat Barcelona . And what it to City's and Pellegrini's great credit is that we had a go at Barcelona. We tried to play. We didn't hide.

Some people say that that is a fault. I don't think so. It's for the long term benefit of this club. And I applaud Pellegrini for doing that before his own personal interests. He could easily have sent City out not to lose and to do a damage limitation job, but he stuck to his principles

Well Done Pellegrini

On to what will be a very difficult game at the weekend.

Time to stick together now.

If it wasn't for a game of a lifetime for Joe Hart we would have lost 6 or 7 -1 on aggregate. Last night was an utter disaster with MP, Nasri, and Yaya leading the way.

So tell us why MP was so bad.

He put Yaya in a midfield two.
He started Nasri on the right when we needed someone to neutralize Neymar.

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

If it wasn't for a game of a lifetime for Joe Hart we would have lost 6 or 7 -1 on aggregate. Last night was an utter disaster with MP, Nasri, and Yaya leading the way.

So tell us why MP was so bad.

He put Yaya in a midfield two.
He started Nasri on the right when we needed someone to neutralize Neymar.

I thought he put out the best side he could. Hw went 3 5 1 as everyone has been asking.
He didn't envisage playing with 9 men first half, due to Yaya and Nasri downing tools.
He saw his mistake at half time and pulled Nasri. We don't know what was said at HT
but maybe he thought Yaya would buck his ideas up. i don't know what else he could have
done last night and sure the result could have been worse, but we aren't good enough
at the moment to compete at that level. We have to many players that have trouble
stopping the ball.

 

[BobKowalski]

So tell us why MP was so bad.

He put Yaya in a midfield two.
He started Nasri on the right when we needed someone to neutralize Neymar.

I thought he put out the best side he could. Hw went 3 5 1 as everyone has been asking.
He didn't envisage playing with 9 men first half, due to Yaya and Nasri downing tools.
He saw his mistake at half time and pulled Nasri. We don't know what was said at HT
but maybe he thought Yaya would buck his ideas up. i don't know what else he could have
done last night and sure the result could have been worse, but we aren't good enough
at the moment to compete at that level. We have to many players that have trouble
stopping the ball.

We are good enough to compete at this level its just that we don't compete at this level or even several levels below this level. Our first task is not to fret about Barca but work out why we made such a half arsed job of getting out of the group stages. Why we binned a 2 goal lead against CSKA away, why we lost at home to CSKA and why we drew with a Roma second XI at home.

The frustration is that Roma away is what we should be doing on a regular basis and yet in 4 seasons this is our stand out moment in the CL . Get these things right and we will have a base of competitive and positive results to build on.

 

[Neville Kneville]

He put Yaya in a midfield two.
He started Nasri on the right when we needed someone to neutralize Neymar.

I thought he put out the best side he could. Hw went 3 5 1 as everyone has been asking.
He didn't envisage playing with 9 men first half, due to Yaya and Nasri downing tools.
He saw his mistake at half time and pulled Nasri. We don't know what was said at HT
but maybe he thought Yaya would buck his ideas up. i don't know what else he could have
done last night and sure the result could have been worse, but we aren't good enough
at the moment to compete at that level. We have to many players that have trouble
stopping the ball.

We are good enough to compete at this level its just that we don't compete at this level or even several levels below this level. Our first task is not to fret about Barca but work out why we made such a half arsed job of getting out of the group stages. Why we binned a 2 goal lead against CSKA away, why we lost at home to CSKA and why we drew with a Roma second XI at home.

The frustration is that Roma away is what we should be doing on a regular basis and yet in 4 seasons this is our stand out moment in the CL . Get these things right and we will have a base of competitive and positive results to build on.

My first question would be why many of the same players got dicked by Napoli in a different system, under a different manager, & dicked by most half decent teams in most systems under 2 different managers since.

Once that question is answered, we can start to improve.

First prt of the answer will involve selling several players imo.

 

[BobKowalski]

I thought he put out the best side he could. Hw went 3 5 1 as everyone has been asking.
He didn't envisage playing with 9 men first half, due to Yaya and Nasri downing tools.
He saw his mistake at half time and pulled Nasri. We don't know what was said at HT
but maybe he thought Yaya would buck his ideas up. i don't know what else he could have
done last night and sure the result could have been worse, but we aren't good enough
at the moment to compete at that level. We have to many players that have trouble
stopping the ball.

We are good enough to compete at this level its just that we don't compete at this level or even several levels below this level. Our first task is not to fret about Barca but work out why we made such a half arsed job of getting out of the group stages. Why we binned a 2 goal lead against CSKA away, why we lost at home to CSKA and why we drew with a Roma second XI at home.

The frustration is that Roma away is what we should be doing on a regular basis and yet in 4 seasons this is our stand out moment in the CL . Get these things right and we will have a base of competitive and positive results to build on.

My first question would be why many of the same players got dicked by Napoli in a different system, under a different manager, & dicked by most half decent teams in most systems under 2 different managers since.

Once that question is answered, we can start to improve.

First prt of the answer will involve selling several players imo.

We have bought and sold a fair number of players in the last 4 seasons and we are still getting dicked. It's a club issue. Its a mentality issue. Its a culture issue. Buy yet more players and they will be infected with the same issues and 4 years of mediocrity will become 5.

 

[cleavers]

Hw went 3 5 1 as everyone has been asking.

3 5 1 you say, LOL (need to check your maths, we played with 11 all night, despite Nasri), for me, it was 4 4 2 all night, some will say 4 4 1 1.

However formations aren't important for me, player commitment is, and at least 2 of our 11 were pretty useless all night, and they were both part of our midfield 4, one removed at HT, the other later.

In games at this level you can't afford passengers, and we had two last night, the sooner both leave the better for me.

 

[GeekinGav]

Not sure mediocrity in the Champions League is entirelly accurate. Took United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool several campaigns before they got close to a final,

Plus the competition we face across Europe is much stronger and more teams that the teams that are strong, so it's not a competition that anyone has the right to win it now. Maybe our progress so far is probably accurate.

The worst thing that could cost MP his job and several players to depart is the stat of 3 wins out of 12 games. That's not trophy winning form, that's relegation form. And I've lost all confidence to know where the next win is coming from.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Hw went 3 5 1 as everyone has been asking.

3 5 1 you say, LOL (need to check your maths, we played with 11 all night, despite Nasri), for me, it was 4 4 2 all night, some will say 4 4 1 1.

However formations aren't important for me, player commitment is, and at least 2 of our 11 were pretty useless all night, and they were both part of our midfield 4, one removed at HT, the other later.

In games at this level you can't afford passengers, and we had two last night, the sooner both leave the better for me.

Yup. And what irks most is you could have called Ya Ya's performance without even seeing the teamsheet. Nasri sometimes steps up to the plate (to a degree), but that fly hack at Neymar's legs, much the same as Ya Ya's face push against CSKA, was all the evidence you'd ever need as regards his team ethic. I wouldn't play the former again this season

 

[Goaters]

Pellegrini is a modern day enigma, a part of me admires his laid-back characteristics, but then equally I have never fully warmed to him as he does not feel like one of us. In this sense due to the City way, where we have been down the leagues, slugged it out with the likes of Stockport I feel we as fans appreciate a manager who wears his heart on his sleeve, who gets his teams to press and give their all for the shirt.

Before the Barcelona game, I felt he was on the edge of being sacked. The team had no shape, passion or sense of leadership, I can take losing but getting out-fought is more of a gripe for me. The 4-4-2 rigid formation though was cast aside and we played a more fluid 4-4-1-1, the downfall being Yaya could not handle being in a midfield 2 and was more of a passenger. But we pressed, we caused problems and the majority of players at least looked like they actually gave a damn as to the outcome.

We won the title with Manuel and that will not be forgotten, the brand of football was at times exceptional, I was reading the newspaper with a smile on my face and hearing all and sundry wax lyrical about our style of play. But this season, the sharpness has gone, leading to some awful perfomances and a real damp squid of a season. Football is a brutal business, our owners are ruthless but strive for success in every aspect. There is no doubt in my mind these 9 games will be Pellegrinis last as manager.

Now the hard part comes when questions as to who to get in the Chileans place, Pep is the obvious candidate as known. He has the x-factor, has a style that our owners love and would elevate us to the next level. But unless he wins everything at Bayern this year, then decides that will be that his appointment would not be until Summer 2016. The rest of the rest have some interesting names, Klopp will not leave Dortmund I fear as he would be my next in line. Dare I say Brendan Rodgers, he has a brand of football that would suit us, is keen on developing youth and is media friendly, but I doubt he feels his project with Liverpool is finished. Simeone has had a mixed managerial career but is flourishing at Athletico, he has developed a team greater than the sum of their parts, but plays predominantly a counter attacking style which can not always to pretty to watch. I would personally promote Patrick Vieira, now I know this is a risk, but we preach a holistic approach. If Txixi controls transfers, then Paddy can focus on coaching, getting the best out of the players we have, promoting youth that he knows well. His links to Pogba would make that transfer appear more likely, with a possible Toure exchange.

If come the Summer, we thank Manuel for all his hard work, shake his hand and appoint Vieira I will be happy. If the squad has Maffeo, Angelino, Lopes, Pozo, Barker and Denayer promoted as regular subs, then forcing the way into the team I will be delighted. Take out Kolarov, Toure, Sagna, Boyata, Fernando, Milner (would want him to stay), Dzeko (does not suit our style), then maybe Jovetic (would want to leave), that should be about 70 million in sales. Take in Pogba, Draxler and Rodriguez (the lb), then for me this would be the perfect Summer.