Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2015/16

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Shaelumstash said:
I don't accept this idea that if you don't win the treble every year that it's regression and a failure.

Did Ferguson regress at The Shite every year after 99? I don't think he did, they actually got better as a team, and he got much better as a manager, particularly in Europe.

I think there have only been 4 teams in history that have won the treble. (Barca have done it twice) It is pretty much impossible for those teams to win the treble every year, so the only way for them to go the season after is backwards in terms of trophies.

Real Madrid broke the world transfer record, employed a brilliant manager who is an expert in Europe, and they beat Bayern in the semi's. Pep won every other trophy he entered, but he was facing tougher opponents than the year before.

The squad has also aged over the last 3 years, Robben, Ribery and Schweinsteiger were at their absolute peak under Heynkes, but now they are 3 years older and all injured for the whole run in last season. Is that Pep's fault? According to Bayern themselves, the manager at Bayern has little to no say in transfers, so not really sure how Pep can take the blame for an ageing squad. There was also a catalogue of injuries at Bayern last year, which resulted in a very public falling out, again, something Heynkes didn't have to deal with.

I saw the Heynkes Bayern team in the flesh a couple of times, and they were a decent side. But the Pep Bayern team that came to The Etihad are the best football team I have ever seen in the flesh. They were so dominant, so utterly in control, Pep was so tactically superior to Pellegrini that it almost felt like they shouldn't be in the same competition.

The system our kids teams play, the intention to bring through youth, the high pressing, possession based, attractive football we want to play, the respectful, non-confrontational manner, the charisma in press conferences, the track record in working with the worlds best players and best teams, the unsurpassed trophy count per season, the relationship with our executives, players wanting to play for him, everything is there.

No manager is perfect, but if you could invent a manager that would be the perfect fit for Manchester City, you'd invent Pep Guardiola.
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You're very pro Pep. He was humiliated by Real. He did nothing to stop Real from rushing through the middle time and time again. Something you are very critical of Pellegrini for. Did Pep learn his lesson, no he faced Barcelona the following year, and was played off the park. Deploying the washed Alonso as a holding midfielder and going man for man. They were humped over the two legs.
They were very lucky against us in Germany, a game we should have won and we beat them at home while Guardiola allowed Sergio to continually run in behind. Again something you would slate Pellegrini for.

I agree that Pep is a step forward for City, but many of his flaws/arrogances are identical to Pellegrini. I imagine if Pellegrini allowed Real or Barcelona to run right through the middle of City you'd be quiet critical, no? You were scathing of Pellegrini after we lost 2-1 to Barcelona with ten men for 25 minutes. Funny how Pep gets the benefit of the doubt for making identical mistakes.
 
I quite like Pellers, I don't see Pep ever recreating the success he had at Barca. I wouldn't mind at all if we let Pellers see out his contract and if Pep still wants to come after that then great.
 
schfc6 said:
You're very pro Pep. He was humiliated by Real. He did nothing to stop Real from rushing through the middle time and time again. Something you are very critical of Pellegrini for. Did Pep learn his lesson, no he faced Barcelona the following year, and was played off the park. Deploying the washed Alonso as a holding midfielder and going man for man. They were humped over the two legs.
They were very lucky against us in Germany, a game we should have won and we beat them at home while Guardiola allowed Sergio to continually run in behind. Again something you would slate Pellegrini for.

I agree that Pep is a step forward for City, but many of his flaws/arrogances are identical to Pellegrini. I imagine if Pellegrini allowed Real or Barcelona to run right through the middle of City you'd be quiet critical, no? You were scathing of Pellegrini after we lost 2-1 to Barcelona with ten men for 25 minutes. Funny how Pep gets the benefit of the doubt for making identical mistakes.
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Ferguson was humiliated 5-1 by Mel Machin, 5-0 by Kevin Keegan, 6-1 by Mancini. It didn't make him a bad / flawed manager though. It's better to analyse a manager over a longer period than an isolated game / tie. Pep Guardiola has won 19 out of the 27 trophies he has competed for. It's a record that is completely unsurpassed in the history of European football. I'd rather judge him on that than a semi final he lost once.

Bayern were without Robben, Ribery and Schweinsteiger for the Barca semi. If they were available and Barca were without Messi, Neymar and Iniesta it might have been a rather different tie.

Bayern under Heynkes beat Barca by sitting back and playing on the counter attack. Madrid under Anchelotti beat Bayern in pretty much exactly the same manner. Mourinho has won 2 European cups playing that way. It's a system that is ideally suited to the Champions League. But it is not one Pep, or City under Txiki will ever play.

The problem I have with Pellegrini is that he makes absolutely no attempt to deal with an oppositions style, he just sticks to his way and hope it all works out. The debacle's against Bayern and Barca at home being the two most glaring examples. Pep won't always get it right, but if you look at his history, read up on him, you'll knowthat while always sticks to his attacking principles, he will always analyse his opponent to death, always look for kinks in their armour, look for a different way to win. Of course it won't always work, but he will always look for the best way to win. Pellegrini instead uses a "one size fits all" approach. I know which I'd prefer.
 
"Bayern were without Robben, Ribery and Schweinsteiger for the Barca semi. If they were available and Barca were without Messi, Neymar and Iniesta it might have been a rather different tie.

Bayern under Heynkes beat Barca by sitting back and playing on the counter attack. Madrid under Anchelotti beat Bayern in pretty much exactly the same manner. Mourinho has won 2 European cups playing that way. It's a system that is ideally suited to the Champions League. But it is not one Pep, or City under Txiki will ever play."

My point exactly. He was undone by simple counter attacking football. Something you would slate Pellegrini for.

My point isn't that Pellegrini is better than Guardiola, or we should stick with Pellegrini. I believe we should go all out for Guardiola but I also believe those who get frustrated with Pellegrini would be similarly frustrated with Guardiola. There is literally no chance that if we were missing our three best players and were humbled 5-0 you'd give Pellegrini the benefit of the doubt.

There is no arguing Pep's achievements, but what Enrique won in his first season does put it in some context. Bare in mind Enrique is largely a failed manager.

My point to Dunne own goal was, Pep has taken Bayern backwards, he has achieved nothing there that most managers haven't. He has taken the most feared team in Europe and made them worse.
Is that his fault? Partly. The board? Partly. He has taken the very efficient pace and clinical 2013 Bayern and turned them into a worse Barcelona. His system doesn't get the best out of his Bayern players.
I guess the idea was combine German efficiency & physicality with Spanish flair and technique. I don't think I'm alone in not being fully convinced he's been a success at Bayern all things considered. A league and cup double should be the minimum requirement for Bayern to be considered a success. It's now a one team league thanks to FFP.

Things should be different at City, we have spent 3 years acquiring the players suitable for him.

I would consider two titles in three years real success, I think Pellegrini will achieve this, leaving Pep a lot to live up to.

He is a great manager and great fit for us. Has he improved Bayern? Not really and certainly not compared to what he took over. Simple question, are Bayern more feared now or 3 years ago?

Pep's objective at Bayern was to make them the best team in Europe, thus far he's failed. Not in a Moyes type way obviously more of a Mourinho type of way at Real or Chelsea. Had success but not quiet the success expected. I think Mel Machin him Sen would win the current Bundesliga with Bayern.

That is my concern, he may if needs be feel he still has to prove himself at Bayern if as daft as it sounds it's only the league he wins this season.

As I've repeatedly said he is the perfect progression for us, but Pellegrini's faults are abundant too in Guardiola.
 
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schfc6 said:
"Bayern were without Robben, Ribery and Schweinsteiger for the Barca semi. If they were available and Barca were without Messi, Neymar and Iniesta it might have been a rather different tie.

Bayern under Heynkes beat Barca by sitting back and playing on the counter attack. Madrid under Anchelotti beat Bayern in pretty much exactly the same manner. Mourinho has won 2 European cups playing that way. It's a system that is ideally suited to the Champions League. But it is not one Pep, or City under Txiki will ever play."

My point exactly. He was undone by simple counter attacking football. Something you would slate Pellegrini for.

My point isn't that Pelkegrini is better than Guardiola, or we should stick with Pellegrini. I believe we should go all out for Guardiola but I also believe those who get frustrated with Pellegrini would be similar with Guardiola. There is literally no chance that if we were missing our three best players and were humbled 5-0 you'd give Pellegrini the benefit of the doubt.

There is no arguing Pep's achievements, but what Enrique won in his first season does put it in context. Bare in mind Enrique is largely a failed manager.

My point to Dunne own goal was, Pep has taken Bayern backwards, he has achieved nothing there that most managers have. He has taken the most fears team in Europe and made them worse.
Is that his fault? Partly. The board? Partly. He has taken the very efficient pace and clinical 2013 Bayern and turned them into a worse Barcelona. His system doesn't get the best out of his Bayern players.
Thinks should be different at City, we have spent 3 years acquiring the players suitable for him.

He is a great manager and great fit for us. Has he improved Bayern? Not really and certainly not compared to what he took over. Simple question, are Bayern more feared now or 3 years ago?

Pep's objective at Bayern was to make them the best team in Europe, thus far he's failed. Not in a Moyes type way obviously more of a Mourinho type of way at Real and Chelsea. Had success but not quiet the success expected. I think Mel Machin him Sen would win the current Bundesliga with Bayern.

That is my concern, he may if needs be feel he still needs to prove himself at Bayern if as daft as it sounds it's only the league he wins this season.

As I've repeatedly said he is the perfect progression for us, but Pellegrini's faults are abundant too in Guardiola.
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It's completely unfair to suggest he hasn't improved Bayern. What could he possibly improve after the team won everything the year before? What he did do was come into a team that had reached their absolute peak the season before and kept things fresh by implementing new ideas and style and winning the Bundesliga in record time.

Would Heynckes have had a better season than Pep if he had stayed on? We'll never know but he'd basically have had to win the treble again to improve on what Pep achieved that year.
 
JustAnotherCityFan said:
It's completely unfair to suggest he hasn't improved Bayern. What could he possibly improve after the team won everything the year before? What he did do was come into a team that had reached their absolute peak the season before and kept things fresh by implementing new ideas and style and winning the Bundesliga in record time.

Would Heynckes have had a better season than Pep if he had stayed on? We'll never know but he'd basically have had to win the treble again to improve on what Pep achieved that year.
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People seem to think I'm some sort of Pep hating fellow, I think he's the perfect move for us. I'm just not fully taken in by him. I think he has glaring flaws, flaws similar to those who slate Pellegrini pull Pellegrini up on.

He won plenty with a great side, but to say he's improved Bayern would simply be wrong. Bayern were 7-0 winners over Barcelona 18 months ago, a year later they were way behind the two Spanish sides. I'm not so sure how there's an arguement to that.

I repeat I hope we get him, I'm a big Pellegrini fan and I think Pep is a better Pellegrini, I just think those that Pellegrini irks will be irked by Pep.
 
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schfc6 said:
People seem to think I'm some sort of Pep hating fellow, I think he's the perfect move for us. I'm just not fully taken in by him. I think he had glaring flaws, flaws similar to those who slate Pellegrini pull Pellegrini up on.

He won plenty with a great side, but to say he's improved Bayern would simply be wrong. Bayern were 7-0 winners over Barcelona 18 months ago, a year later they were way behind the two Spanish sides. I'm not so sure how there's an arguement to that.

I repeat I hope we get him, I'm a big Pellegrini fan and I think Pep is a better Pellegrini, I just think those that Pellegrini irks will be irked by Pep.
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Fair play to you fella, you appear to know your stuff. If he comes here, it will be interesting times, as I think the majority of fans, and some of the media, will expect us to win the treble in his first season.
 
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