Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2015/16

[Phil1]

Of course Klopp is a good manager, had I been a Liverpool fan I'd be fucking ecstatic that my club had brought him in.
The thing is, I support City and having watched our evolution both on and off the pitch over the last 6 years it's clear that Klopp doesn't fit us.
The way we play is alien to him and I doubt we're planning on ripping up the blueprint that the whole CFG are trying to adhere to.
We've got the right manager at the club. The next one we get will be more Pellegrini than Klopp so you might be best getting used to the idea.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

I'd say this is true and will be unless he matches Heynckes' achievements.

Well he came close to doing that in his very first season at the club: won the Bundesliga with 7 games to spare, breaking the record Heynckes set the year prior, won the domestic cup, lost out to the eventual winners Real in the CL semi final.

I think it's a quite an absurd standard to hold him to though, to be frank. A lot of stars have to align to win a treble, a touch of good fortune as well.

Guardiola has come in for some criticism at Bayern, but there's a reason that they're moving hell and high water to secure him to a contract extension as of right now.

If you think he's taken them backwards then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Anyone who wouldn't welcome him with open arms to City needs their bumps feeling as far as I'm concerned.

 

[aguero93:20]

lost out to the eventual winners Real in the CL semi final.

Heynckes hammered Barca (La Liga Champions) 7-0, Guardiola got hammered by Real (3rd in La Liga) 5-0. Backwards.

 

[schfc6]

"Which City fans thought Klopp was ideal to replace anyone at City?"

A very significant proportion of this sub during the summer.

I think, and thought, that Guardiola was the ideal candidate. But I'd have taken Klopp this summer had we known there was no possibility of Pep in a year's time.

Don't know anyone or anyone I've spoken with for reasons mentioned who see Klopp to be anything other than a huge gamble to us. Not suited to us at all.

I'm sorry but those who thought Klopp was for us show a complete lack of understanding of what is going on at City from under 8's to first team. If you disagree, then good for you. I suggest to take a closer look at your club and its infrastructure.

Nothing I have seen at City since the employment of Sorriano & Txiki would indicate that Klopp is for us.

 

[stablemcfc]

Lots of talk about Pep & us getting him next summer; but what happens if we win the league, have a decent run in CL & win a cup? Lots of ifs there but not beyond reasonable to think the potential is there for that to happen. Pellegrini gets sacked off the back of a season like that? Whilst I think Pellegrini is a good manager & an upgrade on Mancini, and believe the contract extension was a great idea in terms of this season - if we really are going all in for Pep next summer then we're going to be in an odd situation if Pellegrini has another season like his first.

Pellegrini has done a great job for us, but he's a short-term solution for me - too old to be looking at staying long term which is why replacing him over the next couple of years doesn't seem a poor idea to me. Feel we need someone who can stay for a longer period & really push on with the squad.

 

[schfc6]

Heynckes hammered Barca (La Liga Champions) 7-0, Guardiola got hammered by Real (3rd in La Liga) 5-0. Backwards.

As Aguero says, it wasn't simply a semi final loss, it was a total role reversal from the previous season. Heynckes Bayern humbled Europe's best side with rapid incisive play, cut Barcelona to shreds, some were suggesting that the Barcelona blue print be consigned to the past. Guardiola takes controle and the same happens in reverse Real's incisions right through the middle of the now less athletic and one paced Bayern team left him with no answers.

Yes Pep won't win the treble year on year, but Bayern beating Barcelona one year 7-0 with a quick aggressive direct athletic side one year then getting hammered the following year is regression.

For the record, from what I've heard from several places, we are getting Pep and I agree it's a step up. I am happy with it. I think Pep will prove just as frustrating to those who Pellegrini frustrates.

If and big IF Pellegrini wins the league and walks this summer(as I 100% expect) there will be a lot of sorry that Pellegrini left and the way he's hopefully achieved his success will take a lot to replicate.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

Yes, Pep has taken Bayern backwards. That's what I consider a down trend in success. Do you consider the treble to title only as progression?

Never said Klopp was over rated, I rate him no higher than or lower than Pellegrini, I said his style of play would not suit ours or our squad. I also said his high flying BVB were incredibly lucky to best Pellegrini's side of free transfers and unwanted players.

Yes Pellegrini had a poor second season, I expect and as it looks thus far he has learnt from this. That is exactly what I said.

Your original post was so sensational I assumed it was a joke. Along the lines of, we best get Guardiola if we've missed out on Klopp or we are doomed. I thought this was a joke.

Klopp is no better than Pellegrini, nothing to suggest he is.

So you're basically saying, it's Pep or bust. I wholeheartedly disagree.

Guardiola won a double in his first season at the club. Only a CL semi final exit to the eventual winners Real came between them and the treble.

I totally reject the idea that he's taken them backwards. I simply do not agree.

I'm not saying it's Pep or bust, or that we're 'doomed' if we fail to land him. Give it a rest with the strawman arguments. I've made my points quite clear.

I think Klopp and Giardiola are two managers who represent a clear upgrade on Pellegrini, two managers who have longevity in the game with youth on their side and with all the boxes we need ticking:

The ability to integrate youth.

The ability to be tactically flexible.

The ability to play attractive football.

The track record of success domestically.

The track record of success in Europe, consistently reaching the latter stages of the Champions League.

Pellegrini is a good manager, but he's not a top one. And crucially, he's at an age now where we need to think about replacing him soon enough anyway.

As Txiki and Soriano have said, they believe in cycles of managers, I think Pellegrini's should come to a close next summer.

We've missed out on one of the two outstanding candidates now, and if we miss out on the other, then yes, it will be a major blow.

It won't be the end of the world, but it'll be a considerable blow. And will probably lead to us taking another managerial sideways step when we come to replace Manuel (whenever that may be), and still coming up short when it comes to having a top tier manager to match our squad.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

We all want what is best for City, that's a given. And whilst (also a given) Pep is an excellent manager, he hasn't managed in the PL and there are no guarantees that he will should he come. I get that Manuel is on the road to retirement, but he has achieved in this daunting league so to say today Pep is a "managerial upgrade" is somewhat speculative at this stage.

That's very flawed rationale mate.

Neither Mancini nor Pellegrini managed in the PL prior to coming to City.

Managerial success at one PL club doesn't guarantee it at another anyway.

Managerial success is managerial success, there are of course no guarantees that someone will replicate their success at another club, but there are safer bets than others.

If being 'PL proven' is so all important then Chelsea would've never appointed Mourinho after his success with Porto, and they would've been poorer for it.

I can't agree re the managerial upgrade point, but I recognise where you're coming from and it's fair enough to point out that it's somewhat speculative.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I don’t think we should look for a problem that doesn’t need to exist. Pele is doing a great job and we have a great chance of winning the league this year while other clubs go into melt down. Why change anything or even consider it.

The only exception is Pep, I have no doubt we have our ear to the ground on the Pep situation and I would think he has been offered the City job on a whenever you want it basis. That will either happen or it won’t it is out of our hands. Until there is movement we have an excellent manager and management team and we should be happy with that. Stability is massively underrated.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

Don't know anyone or anyone I've spoken with for reasons mentioned who see Klopp to be anything other than a huge gamble to us. Not suited to us at all.

I'm sorry but those who thought Klopp was for us show a complete lack of understanding of what is going on at City from under 8's to first team. If you disagree, then good for you. I suggest to take a closer look at your club and its infrastructure.

Nothing I have seen at City since the employment of Sorriano & Txiki would indicate that Klopp is for us.

He'd be more of a gamble than Guardiola, and I agree that his style of play isn't totally and entirely in line with the desired Barca approach Txiki is keen on endorsing, while Guardiola's of course is.

Hence why I felt, and feel that Guardiola is the better fit for us.

However, if he was unattainable I thought Klopp was a great alternative.

We all agreed at the end of last season that our squad needed surgery, given that money Klopp could've moulded a side in his image while keeping close enough to the principles Txiki was keen on.

There's nothing to suggest Klopp doesn't have the ability to be flexible.

You think if he'd have got his desired job at Bayern he wouldn't have had to adapt somewhat?

It's interesting you made a point earlier about Joe not having the desired qualities to play under Klopp, you think he would under Guardiola?

Not a chance. Joe's position is among the most vulnerable in the next stage of our evolution as a top European side, in spite of his status at the club, due to his weakness with the ball at his feet and playing behind a high line.

Either of the top managers mentioned would heavily scrutinise that position.

Hell, even Manuel did. But he doesn't hold a strong enough mandate to exclude Joe if he felt the need to, a high profile manager like Guardiola would have no such qualms. I've made this point in the thread about Joe before.

Whoever comes in next, the squad will take some tinkering. So I think that's a moot point regarding Klopp not being suitable.