Disproving Christianity?

[levets]

Butthurt???? what the fuck??? you really are a student with too much time on his hands..

I have no reason nor inclination to 'tackle your argument'... but I wonder what your agenda is? Why do many of your posts court controversy? Are you trying to be Blue Moon's 'shock Jock'?

answer this....
Do you have a wife, Kids or a girlfriend...even a male partner? Did you buy them (or anybody) a christmas present? I just want you to show me that you are not in fact a hypocrite who just likes to sound off, in order to gain some form of infamy.

I have a lovely girlfriend, two nieces/nephews who I see everyday, parents, little brother etc, and I got them all Xmas presents.

I didn't do so because I'm celebrating the birth of the Christ child, I did so because it's a cultural tradition to buy gifts at this time. As you all know, I'm an Atheist, but that doesn't mean that I don't take part in any cultural event that has any religious background to it. It just means that I don't believe in a creator figure.

Thanks damocles, but I wasn't asking asking you.. ;-)

 

[gagiesotherhalf]

Oh bloody hell...see what you've started...it's spilled over onto the BBC now? ;)
(Well, a very similar argument anyhow)

<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8467755.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8467755.stm</a>

 

[ElanJo]

are you trying to disprove christianity as a movemement or what it is fundamentally based on
if it is the former forget it it exists, if the latter then that could apply to all
and as i have been told constantly we can't prove either way, which is fair enough on current knowledge.
but to just believe as in one reply "cos" seems a bit strange and genuinely want to know why?

At the very least I am showing that the fundamentals of the belief in the Biblical God paint a very different picture of that God than what is generally believed to be the case. Namely that this God is a cruel God. As a result, it disproves this particular concept of God making it unreasonable to believe in it.
This argument is only applicable to the concept of God that requires belief in (and love of) this God in order to not be sent to "Hell". This happens to be the majority of Christians (and , as far as I know, Muslims). If you believe Jesus is God and that he died for our sins then you will almost certainly fall into this bracket.

 

[ElanJo]

Where did I say I was hurt? I think I remember saying that you can continue to insult me all you like. Besides, I think your comments insult yourself more than me.

Ok. So which is it. Does the Christian God exist as a dictator and creator and the supreme authority. Or, are you actually going to disprove the Christian theory, meaning that God in fact does not exist at all. You can't have it both ways.
If he doesn't exist, then he cannot dictate.

I don't dislike you, I don't even know you. Don't take it personally when I or anyone else disagrees with you.

If you weren't hurt or at least offended, then why bring it up? I don't believe I've insulted you at all actually, and you don't suit the victim look.

God exists as a concept in the Bible and in peoples minds. This concept is internally contradictory and therefore false. See my above post to Tonea for more.

I don't think you have to know me to dislike me (or how you perceive me) I don't take it personally when people disagree with me, but ok, lets forget about that, I just ask that you take the time to understand my points and arguments before bad mouthing me to other posters.

I brought it up because you bad mouthed me and my intentions without even taking the time to understand my argument. As I said, you can do that if you wish. I was just pointing out that that is what you're doing.

 

[ElanJo]

It is a fact. He is the supreme authority. If you have children you dictate to them what they can and can not do, what rules they have to live by, punishments etc. A Dictator can be benign.



I am using the claims made in the Bible, claims that most Christians accept, to argue against the Biblical God. There is nothing wrong or contradictory about that.

The structure of the argument is a kind of syllogism, such as:

1. All mammals breathe air
2. A Whale breathes air
3. Therefore a Whale is a mammal.

And I think it is pretty insulting for you to swan on here making accusations about the purpose of the thread and the argument when you don't even understand the argument.




I've already said that this argument could possibly work for Islam aswell but may not - I'm not as familiar with the claims of Islam as I am Christianity. I've lived in a "Christian country" all my life so it's hardly surprising is it? Sorry if that makes you feel butthurt, I can't do much about it I'm afraid.
You haven't got the bottle to tackle the actual argument I made, instead you just keep popping in with insults - It's all you ever do. You're a bit of a joke really, aren't you? :)

Butthurt???? what the fuck??? you really are a student with too much time on his hands..

I have no reason nor inclination to 'tackle your argument'... but I wonder what your agenda is? Why do many of your posts court controversy? Are you trying to be Blue Moon's 'shock Jock'?

answer this....
Do you have a wife, Kids or a girlfriend...even a male partner? Did you buy them (or anybody) a christmas present? I just want you to show me that you are not in fact a hypocrite who just likes to sound off, in order to gain some form of infamy.

I don't see why I am showing you the courtesy of answering your questions when all you ever do is attack people who criticise, and ask questions about, supernatural claims. You never actually enter the discussion at hand instead all you ever do is skirt around the edges hurling insults. You say that you don't have time to get your hands dirty but you still spend alot of time in these kinds of threads. It was the same in the Medium thread.

Anyway, I'll answer you because I'm a reasonable guy, no I'm not trying to be a "shock jock". I don't think discussing supernatural things is even controversial.

As for Christmas presents. I'm the same as Damocles really. I buy and receive presents at Christmas but I do so out of tradition not belief. Besides, it wasn't always associated with Christ. I could ask you, if you're a Christian, why do you celebrate a holiday that is based on paganism and is rife with pagan symbolism? It's of little importance tho.

 

[><((('>]

Why not have a go at Islam? or Judism(sp?)? Buddhism? Taoism? Hinduism?

B@stard

 

[Anonymous]

Why not have a go at Islam? or Judism(sp?)? Buddhism? Taoism? Hinduism?

B@stard

your name looks like a fish. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhahahahahhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

 

[PistonBlue]

Ok. So which is it. Does the Christian God exist as a dictator and creator and the supreme authority. Or, are you actually going to disprove the Christian theory, meaning that God in fact does not exist at all. You can't have it both ways.
If he doesn't exist, then he cannot dictate.

I don't dislike you, I don't even know you. Don't take it personally when I or anyone else disagrees with you.

If you weren't hurt or at least offended, then why bring it up? I don't believe I've insulted you at all actually, and you don't suit the victim look.

God exists as a concept in the Bible and in peoples minds. This concept is internally contradictory and therefore false. See my above post to Tonea for more.

I don't think you have to know me to dislike me (or how you perceive me) I don't take it personally when people disagree with me, but ok, lets forget about that, I just ask that you take the time to understand my points and arguments before bad mouthing me to other posters.

I brought it up because you bad mouthed me and my intentions without even taking the time to understand my argument. As I said, you can do that if you wish. I was just pointing out that that is what you're doing.

To be fair, I doubt it's only me that came to that conclusion.

 

[levets]

Butthurt???? what the fuck??? you really are a student with too much time on his hands..

I have no reason nor inclination to 'tackle your argument'... but I wonder what your agenda is? Why do many of your posts court controversy? Are you trying to be Blue Moon's 'shock Jock'?

answer this....
Do you have a wife, Kids or a girlfriend...even a male partner? Did you buy them (or anybody) a christmas present? I just want you to show me that you are not in fact a hypocrite who just likes to sound off, in order to gain some form of infamy.

I don't see why I am showing you the courtesy of answering your questions when all you ever do is attack people who criticise, and ask questions about, supernatural claims. You never actually enter the discussion at hand instead all you ever do is skirt around the edges hurling insults. You say that you don't have time to get your hands dirty but you still spend alot of time in these kinds of threads. It was the same in the Medium thread.

Anyway, I'll answer you because I'm a reasonable guy, no I'm not trying to be a "shock jock". I don't think discussing supernatural things is even controversial.

As for Christmas presents. I'm the same as Damocles really. I buy and receive presents at Christmas but I do so out of tradition not belief. Besides, it wasn't always associated with Christ. I could ask you, if you're a Christian, why do you celebrate a holiday that is based on paganism and is rife with pagan symbolism? It's of little importance tho.

It was the same in the Medium thread.
==================
Wrong fella.... that was because you (and others) attacked and ridiculed a lady that you (and others) don't even know..

As for the christmas holiday based on paganism.. I concede to you on that... but personally, I always accepted the (un)orthodox version that christmas day is actually 6th january..

as for the giving & receiving... isn't the tradition based on the gifts received from the 3 wise men? Strange that you try to disprove Christianity, then participate in this 'tradition'. A bit hypocritical don't you think?

As for the basis of your argument... I can't prove either way and neither can you...
I just cannot understand why you need to court controversy; that is my issue.

Did I say anywhere that I was a Christian?

That is all

 

[ElanJo]

I don't see why I am showing you the courtesy of answering your questions when all you ever do is attack people who criticise, and ask questions about, supernatural claims. You never actually enter the discussion at hand instead all you ever do is skirt around the edges hurling insults. You say that you don't have time to get your hands dirty but you still spend alot of time in these kinds of threads. It was the same in the Medium thread.

Anyway, I'll answer you because I'm a reasonable guy, no I'm not trying to be a "shock jock". I don't think discussing supernatural things is even controversial.

As for Christmas presents. I'm the same as Damocles really. I buy and receive presents at Christmas but I do so out of tradition not belief. Besides, it wasn't always associated with Christ. I could ask you, if you're a Christian, why do you celebrate a holiday that is based on paganism and is rife with pagan symbolism? It's of little importance tho.

It was the same in the Medium thread.
==================
Wrong fella.... that was because you (and others) attacked and ridiculed a lady that you (and others) don't even know..

As for the christmas holiday based on paganism.. I concede to you on that... but personally, I always accepted the (un)orthodox version that christmas day is actually 6th january..

as for the giving & receiving... isn't the tradition based on the gifts received from the 3 wise men? Strange that you try to disprove Christianity, then participate in this 'tradition'. A bit hypocritical don't you think?

As for the basis of your argument... I can't prove either way and neither can you...
I just cannot understand why you need to court controversy; that is my issue.

Did I say anywhere that I was a Christian?

That is all

"Wrong fella.... that was because you (and others) attacked and ridiculed a lady that you (and others) don't even know.."
Prove it.


Gifts etc were still pagan, but even if gift giving was based solely on the 3 wise men tale so what? I don't particularly care for christmas gifts anyway, the whole thing is for children, but I'm not really into appearing rude by not getting anything for anyone. I much prefer the piss ups and the holiday.

My argument isn't about proof. It concerns the logic and consequences of the Biblical God as described by nearly all Christians. My argument brings up serious problems with the Christian concept of God relating to nonbelief, hiddenness and the character the God itself.
You can either refute the premises, and thus the conclusion, or you can't. This isn't an argument where "neither of us can prove it either way" is applicable.
I don't court controversy. It's not my fault some people get offended when people criticise or question supernatural claims. If you don't like it you know what you can do...

I never said that you were a Christian. But if you're not I sure hope that you don't celebrate Christmas! ;)