Disproving Christianity?

I recall a bit of a hoo-har when I was little, one time at school.
Brought up in a Catholic family, but did not go to Catholic school (the only one that didn't).
My grandad was a real Holy Joe and tried his damndest to get me to believe the 'doctrine' but I wasn't having it.
My teacher at the time was a Methodist. I was the only Catholic as far as I am aware, in the whole primary school. He knew this very well and asked us to fetch a Bible into school if we had one at home.
Reading into this my grandad gave me a copy of the 'Douay' or 'King James' bible (mostly adapted by the French I think). Teacher hits roof and tells me "it's not a real bible" and throws a copy of the 'Good News' at me.

So even different sects of the Christian faith will bastardise their beliefs into different editions of the 'good book'.
Like a 1st day Harry Potter that's been adapted because JK Rowling decided that she didn't like a particular chapter anymore, and re-wrote it. Can you imagine the fracas????
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Well let's see.

Some kid is born to a woman whose husband hasn't apparently shagged her. Three fabulously wealthy kings travel hundreds of miles to pop their head round the stable door to say hello and leave a few pressies.

Kid grows up, can walk on water, turn said water into wine and cure sickness with a touch. Then the Romans top him but he comes back to life and does a runner, appearing to people in dreams.

There aren't many holes in that story then.


You would have to be stupid or insane to believe that story
 
gagiesotherhalf said:
I recall a bit of a hoo-har when I was little, one time at school.
Brought up in a Catholic family, but did not go to Catholic school (the only one that didn't).
My grandad was a real Holy Joe and tried his damndest to get me to believe the 'doctrine' but I wasn't having it.
My teacher at the time was a Methodist. I was the only Catholic as far as I am aware, in the whole primary school. He knew this very well and asked us to fetch a Bible into school if we had one at home.
Reading into this my grandad gave me a copy of the 'Douay' or 'King James' bible (mostly adapted by the French I think). Teacher hits roof and tells me "it's not a real bible" and throws a copy of the 'Good News' at me.

So even different sects of the Christian faith will bastardise their beliefs into different editions of the 'good book'.
Like a 1st day Harry Potter that's been adapted because JK Rowling decided that she didn't like a particular chapter anymore, and re-wrote it. Can you imagine the fracas????

It's amazing really, there's around 22 major religions, all of them will have splits within them, sections who believe different things, then there are thousands of minor religions.

There's also generally a geographical correlation with religions and which area you live in, obviously with World travel and migration being what it is, it's getting muddled up a bit, but the principle is there.

Basically your religion is determined by your upbringing, people don't sit and decide which religion seems most plausible. I can see no reason why people think their religion is more liekly to be true than all the other religions, basically religious people have been brainwashed through their upbringing to follow a specific religion.

I can almost understand the belief in a God or some form of creator, i can't understand living your life in accordance to the preachings of a specific religion.

Basically organised religion is a load of shit.

I was sure i was going to come to a more eloquent conclusion there but i lost my train of thought.
 
Stanley said:
Bit one sided this, Wheres the god squad?

for those of you who don;t know this topic comes up once in a while and can cause great fun, here are some of my favorites:

http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=146700

http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=128277


The God squad are either praying to be liked by God or know they are on a loser.
The Ship of Fools thread was brill!
I look forward to one of ElanJo's topics on religion
 
Oolon Colluphid said:
Stanley said:
Bit one sided this, Wheres the god squad?

for those of you who don;t know this topic comes up once in a while and can cause great fun, here are some of my favorites:

http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=146700

http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=128277


The God squad are either praying to be liked by God or know they are on a loser.
The Ship of Fools thread was brill!
I look forward to one of ElanJo's topics on religion
I'm a bit concerned about your name being an anagram of 'do uphill colon'!! ;-)
 
Llewellyn Dowd said:
Oolon Colluphid said:
The God squad are either praying to be liked by God or know they are on a loser.
The Ship of Fools thread was brill!
I look forward to one of ElanJo's topics on religion
I'm a bit concerned about your name being an anagram of 'do uphill colon'!! ;-)

Better that you know your hitch hikers, you zarkin frood.

Great books Oolon, my fav is "Who is this god guy anyway?"
 
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and refute some of your arguments. The simple reason for this, is that if there is one thing that Bluemoon Off-Topic has taught me over the years, it's that people's faith is unnecessarily bastardised for the enjoyment of a few; something that I've been quite a large voice in, and it's a little unfair on them to say "PROVE YOUR GOD EXISTS!!~". To the general populace on here, admitting you are a faithful person is paramount to saying you're a idiot, and that's out of order.

Anyway, as you probably know, I'm a slave to logic, so I'll use this to counteract the claims that have been made.

1. Religion has caused more suffering than anything else

This is false, and shows a bias in the reading of historical events. Yes, certain wars have been religious, but a number of them (including the two biggest last century which killed more than any) weren't. I would say that culture clash has caused more suffering than anything else. Communism vs Capitalism vs Fascism was the new cultural imperialism; before this, the British, before this, the French/Spanish, before that the Persians/Ottomans, before this the Romans, before this the Norse, etc.
Wars are fought for territory and for resources, to extend the power of a certain nation. Whether they were religious or not is irrelevant. People used to find allies through similar cultures, which extends in to similar religious beliefs. That said, Christians still invade Christian countries, and have done since the dawn of time.
The whole Civil War in Britain is an often used religious war excuse, and especially the actions of Henry 8th, Queen Mary, etc.
Again, at the root of this, you have a single monarch who wants to increase their powerbase. It's very rare in history to find a person who wants to conquer based entirely on religious aspects.

2. God causes more pain than the Devil

Presuming that these two actually exist, there is no verifiable way of saying who caused what to happen, therefore the whole argument is mute.

3. The Bible is just too much of a fantastical story to be true.

Again, the logic in this is heavily flawed. If I were to travel back two thousand years and explain posting on an internet forum to a man, they would say that it was too fantastical to be true. The historical accounts at the time support a person known as Jesus. This is all again presuming that the Bible is literally true.
We have no real way of knowing the events of Nazareth/Jerusalem around this time, as proper historical documentation doesn't particularly exist, most was passed through word of mouth and then written later. Yes, this introduces the possibility of bias, but the possibility of bias and actual bias are two different things.

4. The Bible was written by journalists, which makes it unreliable

This is akin to saying that 9/11 was reported by journalists, therefore didn't happen.

5. Scientific standards don't apply to scripture

I'm surprised at this assumption. Scripture has some real hardcore scientists examining them, dating them, translating them etc. It isn't easy to translate a dead language, and compromises have obviously being made from the original to English. There is a whole argument that states that the Virgin Mary was never a Virgin in the original scripture, and was actually just 'young' which was mistranslated. Again, it's an ongoing process of translation and knowledge, and the real religious scientists are doing their best to get the intended story out there. It isn't their fault if Christian sects don't accept it, or whatever.

6. Physics supports the assumption of a Creatorless universe.

This is a personal bug bear of mine actually, and I can never see where people come from with this. In Physics, there is a rare term used known as a Singularity. A Singularity is an event that happens where some laws of physics break down, and cause-effect rarely exists. The Big Bang is probably the most well known Singularity, but others such as Black Holes.
Actually, that's a bit of a simplified answer, which doesn't do it justice. What I should say, is that a singularity is where the variables in an equation reach infinity, and there is no such thing as infinity in Physics, thus it breaks the known laws.

Anyway, the point being that nobody on Earth can prove what happened at the moment of creation. We know what happened several billionths of a second after it, and can follow it all the way through to now. However, the exact moment of creation is unknown to all, and if you have an answer for it, you better buy a suit as you'll be receiving a Nobel Prize.

There is a space for a creator within physics. Not just the moment of creation but the formation of the laws too. For example, we know that Pi is always the ratio between a circumference of a circle and the diameter (well, in Euclidean geometry anyway), Why is this? Doesn't it seem funny that we have a bunch of constants in the Universe? The Gravitational constant is a bloody good one, as well as things like the Divine proportion or Phi.
The Divine proportion for those unaware, is 1.6180339887. This is a number that appears just everywhere in nature and in the galaxy. There is also a large amount of sacred architecture that conforms to this ratio.

Again, there is room for faith within this equation, and discounting it entirely is a little close minded.

7. God doesn't exist because the Vatican is evil.

There's no real logic behind this. Discounting the Christian God, just because some of his followers are idiots, is like saying that all humans are paedophile murderers because Ian Huntley exists.

8. The below statement

1. He creates us (limited as we are)
2. He wants us to a)acknowledge him and b) to accept and worship him
i) If you do a) and b) you will be rewarded.
ii) If you do not do a) and b) you will be sent to Hell (or in a state of Hell - either way, it's everlasting torment)
3. To be able to do b) you must first do a)
4. God hides himself from us and gives no reason whatsoever to believe this scripture( in this case the Bible) over another.
5. It's already established that the Christian God is a dictator
6. Thus the Christian God is fictitious or, at the very least, evil (ie. a bad dictator/tyrant)

We'll discount the perfectly valid arguments of translations, cultural shifts, power mongerers and the like and say that everything you've said is true.

There is utterly nothing to support assumption 6 from previous assumptions. You've missed lots of steps.
 
Llewellyn Dowd said:
Oolon Colluphid said:
The God squad are either praying to be liked by God or know they are on a loser.
The Ship of Fools thread was brill!
I look forward to one of ElanJo's topics on religion
I'm a bit concerned about your name being an anagram of 'do uphill colon'!! ;-)


LOL. Nice one, although I'm a little concerned that anal sex is at the forefront of your mind
 
Damocles said:
All that stuff that Damocles put

I understand and agree with your conclusions, we can never prove or disprove that Jesus existed. therefor we can never prove or disprove god exists.

But we have to look at likelihood.

The problem for me with religion is that it is a gang culture, my gangs better than your gang.

The sooner we shed it and become the human gang, the sooner we will be able to communicate without prejudice and the sooner we be able to evolve.

Some may accuse me of being naive if you will, but I believe in human kind, its tangible and you can touch it and I can prove that.
 

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