Disproving Christianity?

[SharpDressedMan]

Smartarse - why can't you do Media Studies like everyone else.

Just curious as the OP has gone on about Catholicism and erm...physics, and erm...space in particular, so erm...yeah, i want to hear what he has to say.

Media Studies? What's that?

We spend all our spare time watching television, sign up to the course, then pretend we watch tele for research.

The good life.

 

[Damocles]

I'm a Roman Catholic and plan to study Physics with Astrophysics at University. *Awaits response*

Either one way or the other, you are about to have a huge crisis of conscience.

 

[Oolon Colluphid]

Why doesn't he make it obvious he exists, rid anyone of this "blind faith" and help stop all this religion based pain, suffering and death?

I mean, if he created everything surely he'd be able to communicate freely with us, as he apparently did with Adam and Eve

Proof denies faith and without faith God is nothing
If he did communicate with us all it would be proof he existed and by his own logic, therefore, he would not exist.

So God exists and doesn't at the same time - sounds like quatum mechanics to me. The LegendOfBertie could help out here

 

[without a dream]

I realise it's not relevant to the argument but if God does exist he's a right bastard, see Haiti for the latest example of this.

 

[ElanJo]

1. He creates us (limited as we are)
2. He wants us to a)acknowledge him and b) to accept and worship him
i) If you do a) and b) you will be rewarded.
ii) If you do not do a) and b) you will be sent to Hell (or in a state of Hell - either way, it's everlasting torment)
3. To be able to do b) you must first do a)
4. God hides himself from us and gives no reason whatsoever to believe this scripture( in this case the Bible) over another.
5. It's already established that the Christian God is a dictator
6. Thus the Christian God is fictitious or, at the very least, evil (ie. a bad dictator/tyrant)

We'll discount the perfectly valid arguments of translations, cultural shifts, power mongerers and the like and say that everything you've said is true.

There is utterly nothing to support assumption 6 from previous assumptions. You've missed lots of steps.

I disagree. The previous "assumptions" show that he is evil. Since he is evil, the description of God, that Christians worship, does not exist.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I realise it's not relevant to the argument but if God does exist he's a right bastard, see Haiti for the latest example of this.

See, I can't really argue with that. The fact Christianity still holds it's values and teachings from a 1000 yr old + book says it all. If we as christians try to put a spin on it, people go "well thats not what the bible says" and stuff like that.

I have a loose approach to it all. Until we ever (if we ever do) find the cause of the Big Bang, I can say God caused it. I can say Evolution has developed us to where we are now, and that Genesis took a very simplistic and shortened version of it. This could be in essence the 7th day, he may not exist at all, but until it's proven either way no-one really can judge.

From my perspective God doesn't control Nature.

 

[ElanJo]

1. He creates us (limited as we are)
2. He wants us to a)acknowledge him and b) to accept and worship him
i) If you do a) and b) you will be rewarded.
ii) If you do not do a) and b) you will be sent to Hell (or in a state of Hell - either way, it's everlasting torment)
3. To be able to do b) you must first do a)
4. God hides himself from us and gives no reason whatsoever to believe this scripture( in this case the Bible) over another. ***
5. It's already established that the Christian God is a dictator
6. Thus the Christian God is fictitious or, at the very least, evil (ie. a bad dictator/tyrant)

*** I sense an objection here so i will preempt it. If he revealed himself to us in some way as to make it pretty obvious that he existed this would not impede on our Free Will. We'd still have choice whether to follow him or not.

Is this line of thinking justified or not? If not, why not?

As a committed Christian I think the problem in your logic lies in points 4 and 5. Far from hiding himself from us, God makes every effort to communicate with us, and the Bible gives a record of how he has done so. The purpose of the Christian Church (I make no claim for any particular denomination) is to help this communication to continue, and many people find that they are able to do so in prayer. And I'm not sure why you say 'the Christian God is a dictator' when later on you mention that we have Free Will. Nothing is forcing us to respond to God's efforts to communicate with us if we don't want to.

Even if he existed, it's blatantly obvious that your God does not make every effort to communicate with us. He's supposedly God ffs He could do anything...
The Bible merely shows how he supposedly showed himself to a very very select few individuals. The Bible is not even the only "Divine book" around. Prayer? Prayer has been shown not to work for a start. I've prayed before, when I was younger, and I never heard anything. No-one I have ever spoken to has ever heard God. They say stuff like "I was anxious and I prayed and then I let all my problems slide away and learnt to stop worrying" I'm sorry but this just isn't compelling at all. I'm talking about giving us all no doubt about his existence. It'd be a decent start for this God to show us the same courtesy that he showed a small group of illiterate desert farmers 2000 years ago.

You can still have Free Will in a dictatorship. I hate to bring him up, since he always gets brought up, but Hitler didn't take your Free Will away. If you followed him you'd be fine. If not you'd die. Same goes for God, except this God doesn't kill you, he sends you to be tortured for eternity and for simply not being convinced that he exists! lol which is understandable since he's nowhere to be found

 

[paphos-mcfc]

I realise it's not relevant to the argument but if God does exist he's a right bastard, see Haiti for the latest example of this.

It's Gods will. *yawn* I am a God of Atheism. And as God doesn't exhist I'm erm... just an atheist.

 

[ElanJo]

I realise it's not relevant to the argument but if God does exist he's a right bastard, see Haiti for the latest example of this.

See, I can't really argue with that. The fact Christianity still holds it's values and teachings from a 1000 yr old + book says it all. If we as christians try to put a spin on it, people go "well thats not what the bible says" and stuff like that.

I have a loose approach to it all. Until we ever (if we ever do) find the cause of the Big Bang, I can say God caused it. I can say Evolution has developed us to where we are now, and that Genesis took a very simplistic and shortened version of it. This could be in essence the 7th day, he may not exist at all, but until it's proven either way no-one really can judge.

From my perspective God doesn't control Nature.

If that is the case then why did it get the order of creations (of practically everything - the stars, animals, humans, plant life etc. etc) wrong?

God may not control levers with the words "earthquake" "Volcano eruption" etc. on but he allegedly designed/created the earth and so designed/created disasters and presumably, because he is God (and can quickly work out the causal chain), he'd know when and where these disasters would occur. He'd already know when the next one will occur - and the one after that and after that etc. And if the Christian doctrine is correct that means that he knows beforehand that these disasters will cause people to go to hell because a lot of people, who hadn't yet come to believe in the a God, let alone the right God, will have their lives cut short. We'd be talking about babies going to limbo here aswell but the Church relegated limbo to myth not that long ago so obviously limbo isn't real anymore...

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

See, I can't really argue with that. The fact Christianity still holds it's values and teachings from a 1000 yr old + book says it all. If we as christians try to put a spin on it, people go "well thats not what the bible says" and stuff like that.

I have a loose approach to it all. Until we ever (if we ever do) find the cause of the Big Bang, I can say God caused it. I can say Evolution has developed us to where we are now, and that Genesis took a very simplistic and shortened version of it. This could be in essence the 7th day, he may not exist at all, but until it's proven either way no-one really can judge.

From my perspective God doesn't control Nature.

If that is the case then why did it get the order of creations (of practically everything - the stars, animals, humans, plant life etc. etc) wrong?

God may not control levers with the words "earthquake" "Volcano eruption" etc. on but he allegedly designed/created the earth and so designed/created disasters and presumably, because he is God (and can quickly work out the causal chain), he'd know when and where these disasters would occur. He'd already know when the next one will occur - and the one after that and after that etc. And if the Christian doctrine is correct that means that he knows beforehand that these disasters will cause people to go to hell because a lot of people, who hadn't yet come to believe in the a God, let alone the right God, will have their lives cut short. We'd be talking about babies going to limbo here aswell but the Church relegated limbo to myth not that long ago so obviously limbo isn't real anymore...

To test us.