Do you support the RMT?

Vic said:
Maybe Joe Public doesn't grasp what the agenda is.

"Secret plan to close all railway ticket offices as strikes grip Britain... " (Sunday Times yesterday)

Most people rolling up at stations to buy a ticket would prefer to buy from the ticket office than use the machines, which can offer so many alternatives that it takes an age to get what you want.
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and where many of the screens are too low to use easily, or difficult to see in the light conditions (this particularly on platform machines in lesser stations.

At big stations, the desks are pretty much useless for on-the-day travel as the queues are huge.
 
Well, that rather proves the point. Passengers would rather queue than use machines, so the queues for machines would be even longer.

In idle moments waiting for my train at the airport, I've stood by the machines asking if anyone in the ticket office queue wants help using the machine. (Are you bothered about saving a few pence using one company or just want to get on any train to Piccadilly?)
 
Vic said:
Well, that rather proves the point. Passengers would rather queue than use machines, so the queues for machines would be even longer.

In idle moments waiting for my train at the airport, I've stood by the machines asking if anyone in the ticket office queue wants help using the machine. (Are you bothered about saving a few pence using one company or just want to get on any train to Piccadilly?)
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I think the difference is that the desks are not clearly separated for future travel/in the day travel.

I've had a few instances when the machine won't sell me the right ticket e.g. an after 10.30 ticket, and trying to buy it at 10.00 - option is sometimes just not available. It's also an example where the desk will sell the right ticket and someone not knowing may buy a more expensive ticket.
 
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MillionMilesAway said:
I think the difference is that the desks are not clearly separated for future travel/in the day travel.

I've had a few instances when the machine won't sell me the right ticket e.g. an after 10.30 ticket, and trying to buy it at 10.00 - option is sometimes just not available. It's also an example where the desk will sell the right ticket and someone not knowing may buy a more expensive ticket.
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I reckon some Tory MPs have shares in Trainline (charges commission even though same tickets available from any railway company website).
 
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Government will back the employers as they rush to introduce automation so as to effect greater profit efficiency, yet same Government continues to oppose digital voting in the House...
 
I still cannot believe that the Labour Party that has been in opposition for 12 years has refused to negotiate with the Unions to avert this strike action........ eh...... what? The Tories? Grant Shapps.............. thats not the impression I am given by the news the news papers and the Govt itself......
 
metalblue said:
Apologies mate. I was queuing at the cinema rightfully getting evil eyes from Mrs MB so it was a rather rushed post ;)

My point is a number of kids are going to be impacted by this - to discount that, whatever the actual numbers is not acceptable nor is it what I would expect from the left. I think, from your post, we agree on that - so my central premise of I have no issue with the strike itself, just the timing - remains.

Principally I don’t really like national pay deals nor the minimum wage - not the ideas but rather the execution and how the systems are abused. I would very much prefer to see free market economics at play where train companies, schools or hospitals genuinely compete against one another for staff where the going pay isn’t a “pre-known” this will create wage inflation naturally. I accept it might not be that practical due to geography, it’s not like hospitals are 10 a penny in any given area so what…you move areas? Thats hardly practical. That said the private sector is a poster child of free market economics and very few have seen real pay rises in the last decade and those at the bottom have seen pay cuts in real terms. For this I think the minimum wage bears some responsibility- a great idea being exploited where we have supermarkets no longer have to guess what their competitors pay their staff as the minimum wage largely sets the bar for them. This should come as no surprise as supermarkets have used their size to suppress prices they pay for years now - but we all pop along and buy their shit so they are under no pressure to change.

Tax credits and tax cuts cover up most of the real terms pay cuts people have seen in both the public and private sector. We do need a complete overhaul of the system and we need to wean people off working tax credits by getting them fairer pay. A revolution is probably a bit strong, maybe we can just bring in some new legislation rather than burn the world down? I don’t have the answers to what that legislation is, nor the platform to implement it, but I’d probably be fairly supportive with something like:

1. Abolish minimum wage for over 21s and bring in a social responsibility bill wherein national companies will pay a fair wage to staff removing the burden on the tax payer - this will have independent oversight with huge fines to anyone who breaches what is deemed fair - it’s far less transparent for the companies and retrospective that should keep them on their toes and pay people what they are worth to them, not what they can get away with.

2. Huge penalties for firms and prison sentences for CEOs where collusion on pay between rival organisations is uncovered - purpose here is to keep them blind to what others see as fair pay and use their own judgement on what is fair.

3. New law and oversight body on strike action that concerns pay or safety. Where that body agrees that the strike action falls below corporate responsibility on pay or safety staff that strike will be given full pay. Where it doesn’t staff can still strike but as now on no pay. If we look at one of the reasons for strike from a train strike a while back was about removing guards on trains and how it was unsafe - I wouldn’t expect this body to find in favour of the train staff as it’s perceived with no firm evidence (just subjective). But crucially the train staff can still strike if they feel that strongly about it.

4. No government can bring in legislation like that when it’s own house isn’t in order so a thorough review of all public sector take home pay using 2010 as a benchmark - and using that report and inflation to get everyone to 2010 take home pay + inflation since 2010. That is the absolute minimum. I’d even probably use that “2010 take home + inflation” as a starting point for supermarkets and the such as well. Take home is important rather than headline wages as it takes into account the huge reduction we’ve seen in tax thresholds that has left more money in most peoples pockets.
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Thanks mate, that is a thought provoking post. A post i struggle to take issue with.

I am sure me and you have discussed the minimum wage at some point. I am not in favour of it for the very reasons you state. A rare point of agreement between us :))

As for the kids point, I do hope none are impacted and if exams are missed then provision for them to be taken at some other point is made.
 
halfmist said:
I am afraid the lefties don’t understand basic Economics and inflation so your wasting your time.
Not quite sure what you mean by proper taxation.
If you mean effective rates of 98% when the Investment Income Surcharge was in place during the 1970’s when Mr Silly Billy was Chancellor it ain’t going to work in a modern economy where the rich can move their wealth to anywhere in the World.
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I am afraid your argument is spurious. Corporate profits and excessive shareholder dividends also increase inflation, it is not just wage spirals. CEO pay and management pay increases also drive inflation but there is little outcry at those in this countries media. Tax policy based on the discredited Laffer curve is also nonsense. Of course wealth can be moved, what cant be moved is capital assets, so tax them.
 
halfmist said:
I am afraid that’s what you are up against on here.
The lefties have such huge chips on their shoulders if you had been face to face with some of them, with such venom spouted punches would have been thrown
This is why the silent majority, some of whom have private messaged me with support, telling me just let them get on with it.
With the attitude they have its little wonder the left never get elected.
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If wanting fairness, equality of opportunity, decency and honesty means you have a chip on your shoulder then I am guilty and chip is not huge its enormous. I also like to think that the overwhelming majority of the time i have spent on here I have treated people reasonably, of course I have had the odd spat, usually when half cut and have met people I have had said spats with and laughed about them, not thrown punches.

I would welcome some of these "silent majority" people into the debate, if they can message you with support why do they not post to back up your points? Its only a forum, mostly faceless and anonymous, so I encourage them to join in.

There are many reasons why the left do not get elected, posting on BM is not one of them.
 
Rascal said:
Thanks mate, that is a thought provoking post. A post i struggle to take issue with.

I am sure me and you have discussed the minimum wage at some point. I am not in favour of it for the very reasons you state. A rare point of agreement between us :))

As for the kids point, I do hope none are impacted and if exams are missed then provision for them to be taken at some other point is made.
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I think we generally agree on most things mate… just not on how to get there ;)

I do agree that kids will be able to sit their exams at a later point but even so I know when my daughter was sitting her exams she set herself a revision timetable that was based on the order of her exams so retaining that information is not going to be easy for these kids. Now I’d hope the exam board will give some consideration to this when marking but it’s my no means certain.

As I said elsewhere I think a lot of the striking train staff will regret this impact as it’s the last thing they would want - I’m honestly a little surprised the RMT hasn’t acknowledged this and at least delayed the strike action. Have Labour called it out and pleaded with the RMT to reconsider? it would be a bit of a political win for them if they can although they would probably then fall foul of cries of “in cohorts with the unions” just to prove no good deed goes unpunished. Having public support is vital for any public sector striking workforce and I think they’ll lose a bit of sympathy as a result.
 
The one working practise they claim is outdated and they want rid of is the collective bargaining agreements - de-unionisation is their plan - its Johnsons miners strike
 
bluethrunthru said:
The one working practise they claim is outdated and they want rid of is the collective bargaining agreements - de-unionisation is their plan - its Johnsons miners strike
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I noticed that, hiding it behind the phrase Spanish practices.

He tried out his beer and curry line outside, and was so pleased with it, he repeated it in the House.

He does seem to be taking a long time abusing the union that he's not negotiating with, having done his "Labour support the strike" bit again.
 
halfmist said:
As someone who has spent the majority of his professional career in taxation including overseas double taxation agreements and how difficult they have been to get on a country by country basis believe me it is not claptrap.
I could recommend a couple of books which back up my case but they would be a bit more technical than just putting the right people, whoever they may be , in the right room.
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well for someone who has spent the majority of his professional career in taxation I'm surprised they haven't heard of the global tax agreement that's being brought to the table.
taxfoundation.org

The Latest on the Global Tax Agreement

The agreement represents a major change for tax competition as well, and many countries will rethink their tax policies for multinationals. However, the US will continue to chart its own course, and other countries may prefer to do the same, depending on the final outcome of the G7 statement.
taxfoundation.org taxfoundation.org

I can lend you a couple of books on politics, negotiating tatics, and how not to dismiss ideas when they are in fact the right approach if you want.
 
BerkshireBlue said:
well for someone who has spent the majority of his professional career in taxation I'm surprised they haven't heard of the global tax agreement that's being brought to the table.
taxfoundation.org

The Latest on the Global Tax Agreement

The agreement represents a major change for tax competition as well, and many countries will rethink their tax policies for multinationals. However, the US will continue to chart its own course, and other countries may prefer to do the same, depending on the final outcome of the G7 statement.
taxfoundation.org taxfoundation.org

I can lend you a couple of books on politics, negotiating tatics, and how not to dismiss ideas when they are in fact the right approach if you want.
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But there is the answer in your post BB staring you right in the face.
For your Utopia to work it needs to be “ALL” Countries.
“MANY” as the article says is not “ALL”
It only takes a minority to break ranks and no deal is possible
Taxes, are not just about rates, there are all sorts of rules, allowances, grants etc which make it impossible to Police.
Each tax has literally volumes of rules and regulations which are adjusted each year
Multiply by the number of Countries there are in the World all with differing interests and you will never get an enforceable agreement world wide
Then you have individualCompanies who use transfer pricing techniques to manipulate profits in to tax friendly Countries.
They can also use added value techniques, allocating high costs of a product to high tax Countries, then send the product to a low tax Country allocating the main profits to the end product
These Companies are virtually impossible to police
Your view of how the system works is far too simplistic in Reality
 
west didsblue said:
RMT workers are not public sector workers paid for by the taxpayer. The TOCs are private companies that get government payments for running services. During the pandemic they operated under Emergency Measures Agreements which effectively made TOC employees public sector workers. That arrangement ended in October 2021 and TOC employees are now fully back in the private sector (apart from a couple of franchises that are still in the public sector). Unlike other private companies the government are restricting how the TOCs operate which is why there is no prospect of an agreement.
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Your saying the same thing.
Getting Government payments means subsidies.
Subsidies are tax payer funded.
As I have said before, if they can stand on their own 2 feet and make a profit good luck to them
If they have to rely on bale outs from tax payers who would love those sort of wages, then it’s a different story.
 
halfmist said:
Your saying the same thing.
Getting Government payments means subsidies.
Subsidies are tax payer funded.
As I have said before, if they can stand on their own 2 feet and make a profit good luck to them
If they have to rely on bale outs from tax payers who would love those sort of wages, then it’s a different story.
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Rubbish.
My company sells equipment and services to the government and it’s not counted as a subsidy so why is this any different?
 
halfmist said:
Your saying the same thing.
Getting Government payments means subsidies.
Subsidies are tax payer funded.
As I have said before, if they can stand on their own 2 feet and make a profit good luck to them
If they have to rely on bale outs from tax payers who would love those sort of wages, then it’s a different story.
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Same applies to every employer who employs people who need to claim in work benefits - Tesco et al - they should stand on their own two feet and pay their staff what they think they are worth and what they say they can afford. If they have a mass exodus and are unable to pay what is required their business model isn't worth a jot and they go out of business. By allowing such businesses to under pay staff to such a degree that the taxpayer bales them out with in work benefits yet they still pay bosses nice bonuses and shareholders dividends then that is wrong too.
 
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