aguero93:20
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Donald Trump
- Thread starter RichardDunneOwnGoal
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CitizenTID
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Ah great thanks! Yep that seems completely unbalanced (daft) to me.It's really quite simple. Each state has a set number of delegates, based roughly on population, which are allocated on a winner takes all basis. So the most populous state is California and that has 55 delegates. If one candidate or other wins California by just one vote overall, they get all those 55 delegates. These delegates do actually meet and vote but they vote as mandated by the election result. Clinton won California so she gets 55 votes in the electoral college. And the same for all other states.
Our system is that Gtr Manchester has 27 separate constituencies and currently we elect an MP for each of those 27 on a first past the post basis. Imagine we were to change to say that whichever party got the most aggregate votes across all those 27 constituencies got to send 27 MP's to Parliament.
when you consider of those registered to vote 47% didnt bother, he got 25.5% of the vote she got 25.6%, the rest going to others. When you consider there are another 100m people not registered ie illegals and those under age, then he got under 20% of people in America voting for him, hardly a mandate to govern.
So with them figures Clinton also had less than 20% voting for her.
Paul Lake's Left Knee
Well-Known Member
So with them figures Clinton also had less than 20% voting for her.
Yeah they both did.
Blueband Brother
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Devastating Win.
I wonder what the conspiracy theory tin pots that have built a career for themselves over the past 8 years would do now after the results in this election. Will Alex Jones the buffoon retire and go to the mountains.. maybe he can become an important ally or play a role in the Trump administration, I would not be surprised, it is that kind of era. What about the ''progressives'' that spent the whole election pseudo-intellectualizing about the dilemma of a choice between ''two evils'' in the most divided and partisan periods in modern American history, what will they do now?, protest, go back to their basements maybe.. and become conspiracy theorists themselves. Go back to opposing and shouting out loud, like the extreme end of the ''right'' and hope their voices are heard. Yes this should and probably will herald a new start for the democratic party but all the ''progressives'' that have allowed themselves to be possessed with the fume of senseless partisanship, inflammatory rhetoric and baseless and extreme attacks over the past 8 years, that threw their toys out of the pram because their candidate did not win the primary, that are really..really driven to the core by the need to tell ''Clinton supporters'' '' I told you so''. Well now you have said, ''I told you so''....yeah..OK..so now what?... what is your agenda or plans going forward. What power and cards do you have now to play in a Trump administration? when a large group of the Trump supporters especially the deplorable subset, and ofcourse Trump himself dismisses and will continue to dismiss you as spoiled brats, or spoiled ''left''.
I never believed in left or right politics or ''liberalism'' or ''conservatism'' and I certainly don't respect people that have been corrupted by the bad spirit of partisanship. But using that equation of left and right, I believe that there are very few genuine ''liberals'', very few indeed and most of them are doing it out of circumstance e.g rebellion against the system or against their parents or historical movement of tectonic plates especially on social issues e.g the racial issues, with minorities going for Democratic, which is entirely understandable but most are just theoretical liberals , they don't feel anything or believe anything but just shout out loud and raise and point fingers. Bernie Sanders is a real liberal if there is such a thing and he understood that although he did not like Hilary Clinton, he did identify and fully understand the Trump innuendo and he made it abundantly clear that this is not the election to like the smell of your farts, this is not the election to pseudo-intellectualize or rationalize (''after all I wont be affected by the Trump innuendo'' some think deep down) and act like it is a dilemma, this is an election to go out and vote in-order to push on the ''liberal'' or ''progressive'' agenda going forward; to get Clinton elected because the other option is the other way round, everything is reversed, halted if you want to be optimistic, and can be potentially devastating. Trump's win was momentous, epic and devastating not only for the spirit of America but for fake or theoretical liberalism.
I was not necessarily surprised but still shocked by Trumps victory. He ran a great campaign, obviously not in a moral sense but in a mechanical way. He was everywhere, the guy has a lot of energy man. He is the mediameister: he played the media from the very beginning- from the inflammatory and bigoted rhetoric at the beginning of his campaign (in-order to draw attention to himself) to his special ability to make himself the victim and also his ability to set the rules of engagement. It was all about Trump, the other side was reactionary, passive, immobile, complacent whereas Trump was in there, not backing away from anybody. He pressed his message in the rust belts- in Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan etc about trade and the loss of America but most importantly he appealed to the dark side of America and made it cool again. Cool to dismiss any cry for justice or fairness as political correctness, cool to make baseless and uncivil insults and accusations to political opponents, he made it cool to hate again, he made it cool to intimate or protest the un-whitening of America through immigration. He exploited the insulation of America and thus the consequent fear about security in light of events around the world in terms of terrorism (Despite the fact that ''terrorism'' indoors and not from the ''other'' is still a bigger threat, but for them it is always ''the other'' that is at fault and not the imbeciles with guns shooting schools and other public areas). Trump was speaking their minds. He understood the ID (psychological term for innate desire or tendency) or the underlying emotion of many parts of America and he exploited their hidden emotions, exploited the misguided remonstration against political correctness and exploited the believes and ''principles'' that is passed on from parents to children, from generation to generation, with a worm tongue, whispering to their children about how America was great in the past and one day it will be great again, No apologies!!, no guilt!! (and there shouldn't be but there should always be respect and empathy and a honest desire to change and right wrongs) and a matter of fact no wrong done in the past.. The Civil war (Confederacy )..justified!!!, segregation..justified!!..compartmentalization of societies and communities justified!!!...''it is all justified my child..all the people complaining are just being political correct'' but one day my child the south shall rise again..America will be great again, pass this principle to your children when you grow up so that the dream shall live on''. Donald Trump's father probably told him the same wormtongue message when he was growing up so he understands this ID that is why he went full on with this inneundo of '' Make America Great Again'' because he knows it will hit hard in many groups in America and it did.
There are also a genuine group of Trump supporters that are disillusioned about the country and the government, they feel detached about jobs, about specific issues like trade and healthcare. They saw how England and Wales shrunk away in fear, like an old woman, and voted to leave the European Union and misguidedly felt emboldened to ally themselves with someone like Trump. They hate the media (rightly so ) and therefore more likely to listen to Trump who expertly stressed the media flaws throughout the campaign, despite wholly benefiting from the media... genius!!. Unfortunately these genuine folks get grouped in with the other deplorable but they do exist and Trump did spoke to them as well.
Clinton on the other hand ran a terrible campaign, complacent and almost lazy. She underestimated the importance of social media ( I hate social media by the way) like 4chan, twitter, youtube as well, especially for young people. She rightly identified the deplorable sect of the Trump's army but she was too passive and reactionary in actually counteracting the supposedly genuine grievances of people in states like Pennsylvania and Michigan and just presumed that they will at the end of the day, vote for her. Wisconsin as well despite the demographics being grossly against her especially in this campaign dominated by the Trump's Innuendo. So she could have being a good president if she won but she is not a good campaigner and surrounded herself with lizards(joke) like Modesta who I want to slap every time I see him.Not just not enough smart people working for her in my opinion. They kept going own about racism, sexism etc but Clinton should be and is insightful enough to know the American mentality and that people have already made their minds on such issues. A lot of people have worn the fake cloak of remonstration against political correctness so see all these outcry as just that-political correctness and have also been compartmentalized(by their parents and communities) so they don't understand or empathize with such things. The other side or group have already concluded that Trump is racist or sexist. People have already dug their trenches and are holding their line on this issue regardless of how many videos come out, or evidence or whether Clinton goes on and on about it. It makes no difference. Compartmentalization is the American way. What she should have focused on was policy, policy and more policy, especially formulating a counter argument for trade, and there is a lot!!! an awful lot to bury Trump on but she did not do that.
Trump has a lot of smart people working behind the scenes. He also has a lot of powerful people as well (many of them decided to remain quiet and hidden) BUT Trump played the ''the system is rigged, they are biased against me'' line brilliantly. His son in law (who did a great job it has to be said) has a lot of connections and played a lot of games behind the scenes. Also as manifested, the FBI, other institutions and also other governments like Russia and Isreal who know how to play this game,did their dark works and did what they had to do as well and all this played any important role with the Trumps victory.
As I have already said, the fake liberals also played an important role in handing trump this victory by loving the smell of their farts and consequently deciding not to show up and vote. More people voted for Romney than for Trump so despite his good campaign the turn out was not impressive on his side but to his advantage (and dismay..because I still retain that Trump DID NOT WANT TO WIN), the Clinton coalition dispersed into the winds: The blacks did not show up, the Latino could not be shifted despite the Trump rhetoric, women did not shift and the fake liberals who lost the primary also did not show up as well and made it a personal mission to plant doubt and discourage people under the fake guise of being unbiased or ''voting for what you believe in'' and so decided to write in Harambe in their voting cards rather than the candidate that will at least move the ''liberal'' agenda forward. So the Democrats have no one but themselves to blame for this result.
There is a talk about changing demographics in America but it is not the popular vote that wins elections but electoral colleges so the issue should be the spread or dispersion of diversity among the states rather than just diversity numbers because if the concentration is in New York or California or South Texas then it does not matter at the end of the day because it is state by state basis and in such an election, the lack of spread of this diversity throughout the states also played a role and is something that people should look at.
Now Trump will be president it remains to be seen what will happen. I wager that he will become more moderate and I will not deny that I am curious and intrigued to see what he will do. I know he did not want the job but now he got it, he has a perfect opportunity, he has the glorious power to really prove his doubters wrong and at least do great things. I will not hold my breath. He won the election, not the popular vote but the people have no choice but dig out a presumption of good faith (as Barack Obama said) and hope and pray for the best out of this situation.
I am desperately disappointed for Clinton and disappointed generally by the result, even today I am still upset. She was so close to making history and her long career in politics have come to an end.She did not have enough Knights to fend off the devilry of inflammatory rhetoric, baseless accusations, false characterizations and attacks at the end of the day and people bought the false and fake ''two evils'' narrative and she came out on the losing end of that. Clever woman, (very very brilliant student when she was a student), a brave fighter and dedicated her life to serving the community. Broke away from the wormtongue indoctrination of her upbringing and changed sides at a young age and fought against discrimination,children and the American people all her life. It is a shame it ends this way but I still have a lot of respect for Hilary Clinton and wish her the best.
Donald .J. Trump, the one everyone doubted, ridiculed and dismissed won. Oh geeeeeeezzzz!!!!
I wonder what the conspiracy theory tin pots that have built a career for themselves over the past 8 years would do now after the results in this election. Will Alex Jones the buffoon retire and go to the mountains.. maybe he can become an important ally or play a role in the Trump administration, I would not be surprised, it is that kind of era. What about the ''progressives'' that spent the whole election pseudo-intellectualizing about the dilemma of a choice between ''two evils'' in the most divided and partisan periods in modern American history, what will they do now?, protest, go back to their basements maybe.. and become conspiracy theorists themselves. Go back to opposing and shouting out loud, like the extreme end of the ''right'' and hope their voices are heard. Yes this should and probably will herald a new start for the democratic party but all the ''progressives'' that have allowed themselves to be possessed with the fume of senseless partisanship, inflammatory rhetoric and baseless and extreme attacks over the past 8 years, that threw their toys out of the pram because their candidate did not win the primary, that are really..really driven to the core by the need to tell ''Clinton supporters'' '' I told you so''. Well now you have said, ''I told you so''....yeah..OK..so now what?... what is your agenda or plans going forward. What power and cards do you have now to play in a Trump administration? when a large group of the Trump supporters especially the deplorable subset, and ofcourse Trump himself dismisses and will continue to dismiss you as spoiled brats, or spoiled ''left''.
I never believed in left or right politics or ''liberalism'' or ''conservatism'' and I certainly don't respect people that have been corrupted by the bad spirit of partisanship. But using that equation of left and right, I believe that there are very few genuine ''liberals'', very few indeed and most of them are doing it out of circumstance e.g rebellion against the system or against their parents or historical movement of tectonic plates especially on social issues e.g the racial issues, with minorities going for Democratic, which is entirely understandable but most are just theoretical liberals , they don't feel anything or believe anything but just shout out loud and raise and point fingers. Bernie Sanders is a real liberal if there is such a thing and he understood that although he did not like Hilary Clinton, he did identify and fully understand the Trump innuendo and he made it abundantly clear that this is not the election to like the smell of your farts, this is not the election to pseudo-intellectualize or rationalize (''after all I wont be affected by the Trump innuendo'' some think deep down) and act like it is a dilemma, this is an election to go out and vote in-order to push on the ''liberal'' or ''progressive'' agenda going forward; to get Clinton elected because the other option is the other way round, everything is reversed, halted if you want to be optimistic, and can be potentially devastating. Trump's win was momentous, epic and devastating not only for the spirit of America but for fake or theoretical liberalism.
I was not necessarily surprised but still shocked by Trumps victory. He ran a great campaign, obviously not in a moral sense but in a mechanical way. He was everywhere, the guy has a lot of energy man. He is the mediameister: he played the media from the very beginning- from the inflammatory and bigoted rhetoric at the beginning of his campaign (in-order to draw attention to himself) to his special ability to make himself the victim and also his ability to set the rules of engagement. It was all about Trump, the other side was reactionary, passive, immobile, complacent whereas Trump was in there, not backing away from anybody. He pressed his message in the rust belts- in Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan etc about trade and the loss of America but most importantly he appealed to the dark side of America and made it cool again. Cool to dismiss any cry for justice or fairness as political correctness, cool to make baseless and uncivil insults and accusations to political opponents, he made it cool to hate again, he made it cool to intimate or protest the un-whitening of America through immigration. He exploited the insulation of America and thus the consequent fear about security in light of events around the world in terms of terrorism (Despite the fact that ''terrorism'' indoors and not from the ''other'' is still a bigger threat, but for them it is always ''the other'' that is at fault and not the imbeciles with guns shooting schools and other public areas). Trump was speaking their minds. He understood the ID (psychological term for innate desire or tendency) or the underlying emotion of many parts of America and he exploited their hidden emotions, exploited the misguided remonstration against political correctness and exploited the believes and ''principles'' that is passed on from parents to children, from generation to generation, with a worm tongue, whispering to their children about how America was great in the past and one day it will be great again, No apologies!!, no guilt!! (and there shouldn't be but there should always be respect and empathy and a honest desire to change and right wrongs) and a matter of fact no wrong done in the past.. The Civil war (Confederacy )..justified!!!, segregation..justified!!..compartmentalization of societies and communities justified!!!...''it is all justified my child..all the people complaining are just being political correct'' but one day my child the south shall rise again..America will be great again, pass this principle to your children when you grow up so that the dream shall live on''. Donald Trump's father probably told him the same wormtongue message when he was growing up so he understands this ID that is why he went full on with this inneundo of '' Make America Great Again'' because he knows it will hit hard in many groups in America and it did.
There are also a genuine group of Trump supporters that are disillusioned about the country and the government, they feel detached about jobs, about specific issues like trade and healthcare. They saw how England and Wales shrunk away in fear, like an old woman, and voted to leave the European Union and misguidedly felt emboldened to ally themselves with someone like Trump. They hate the media (rightly so ) and therefore more likely to listen to Trump who expertly stressed the media flaws throughout the campaign, despite wholly benefiting from the media... genius!!. Unfortunately these genuine folks get grouped in with the other deplorable but they do exist and Trump did spoke to them as well.
Clinton on the other hand ran a terrible campaign, complacent and almost lazy. She underestimated the importance of social media ( I hate social media by the way) like 4chan, twitter, youtube as well, especially for young people. She rightly identified the deplorable sect of the Trump's army but she was too passive and reactionary in actually counteracting the supposedly genuine grievances of people in states like Pennsylvania and Michigan and just presumed that they will at the end of the day, vote for her. Wisconsin as well despite the demographics being grossly against her especially in this campaign dominated by the Trump's Innuendo. So she could have being a good president if she won but she is not a good campaigner and surrounded herself with lizards(joke) like Modesta who I want to slap every time I see him.Not just not enough smart people working for her in my opinion. They kept going own about racism, sexism etc but Clinton should be and is insightful enough to know the American mentality and that people have already made their minds on such issues. A lot of people have worn the fake cloak of remonstration against political correctness so see all these outcry as just that-political correctness and have also been compartmentalized(by their parents and communities) so they don't understand or empathize with such things. The other side or group have already concluded that Trump is racist or sexist. People have already dug their trenches and are holding their line on this issue regardless of how many videos come out, or evidence or whether Clinton goes on and on about it. It makes no difference. Compartmentalization is the American way. What she should have focused on was policy, policy and more policy, especially formulating a counter argument for trade, and there is a lot!!! an awful lot to bury Trump on but she did not do that.
Trump has a lot of smart people working behind the scenes. He also has a lot of powerful people as well (many of them decided to remain quiet and hidden) BUT Trump played the ''the system is rigged, they are biased against me'' line brilliantly. His son in law (who did a great job it has to be said) has a lot of connections and played a lot of games behind the scenes. Also as manifested, the FBI, other institutions and also other governments like Russia and Isreal who know how to play this game,did their dark works and did what they had to do as well and all this played any important role with the Trumps victory.
As I have already said, the fake liberals also played an important role in handing trump this victory by loving the smell of their farts and consequently deciding not to show up and vote. More people voted for Romney than for Trump so despite his good campaign the turn out was not impressive on his side but to his advantage (and dismay..because I still retain that Trump DID NOT WANT TO WIN), the Clinton coalition dispersed into the winds: The blacks did not show up, the Latino could not be shifted despite the Trump rhetoric, women did not shift and the fake liberals who lost the primary also did not show up as well and made it a personal mission to plant doubt and discourage people under the fake guise of being unbiased or ''voting for what you believe in'' and so decided to write in Harambe in their voting cards rather than the candidate that will at least move the ''liberal'' agenda forward. So the Democrats have no one but themselves to blame for this result.
There is a talk about changing demographics in America but it is not the popular vote that wins elections but electoral colleges so the issue should be the spread or dispersion of diversity among the states rather than just diversity numbers because if the concentration is in New York or California or South Texas then it does not matter at the end of the day because it is state by state basis and in such an election, the lack of spread of this diversity throughout the states also played a role and is something that people should look at.
Now Trump will be president it remains to be seen what will happen. I wager that he will become more moderate and I will not deny that I am curious and intrigued to see what he will do. I know he did not want the job but now he got it, he has a perfect opportunity, he has the glorious power to really prove his doubters wrong and at least do great things. I will not hold my breath. He won the election, not the popular vote but the people have no choice but dig out a presumption of good faith (as Barack Obama said) and hope and pray for the best out of this situation.
I am desperately disappointed for Clinton and disappointed generally by the result, even today I am still upset. She was so close to making history and her long career in politics have come to an end.She did not have enough Knights to fend off the devilry of inflammatory rhetoric, baseless accusations, false characterizations and attacks at the end of the day and people bought the false and fake ''two evils'' narrative and she came out on the losing end of that. Clever woman, (very very brilliant student when she was a student), a brave fighter and dedicated her life to serving the community. Broke away from the wormtongue indoctrination of her upbringing and changed sides at a young age and fought against discrimination,children and the American people all her life. It is a shame it ends this way but I still have a lot of respect for Hilary Clinton and wish her the best.
Donald .J. Trump, the one everyone doubted, ridiculed and dismissed won. Oh geeeeeeezzzz!!!!
Last edited:
2026.
She'll be dead by then.
west didsblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 32,290
Except it is a mandate to govern, in the same way that the last government here only received a vote from around 20% of the population. The only places where a leader gets more than half of the population voting for them is where it's mandatory to vote and there's only a single choice.when you consider of those registered to vote 47% didnt bother, he got 25.5% of the vote she got 25.6%, the rest going to others. When you consider there are another 100m people not registered ie illegals and those under age, then he got under 20% of people in America voting for him, hardly a mandate to govern.
Basically each state is given a number of votes in the electoral college, this is decided by population of each state, so California gets the most and Vermont the least, its a first passed the post system so if you win a state all its votes go to one candidate or the other (with a couple of exceptions). When you get 270 electoral votes you are president. This is why they talk about red (Republican) and Blue (Democrat) states.
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
Clinton on the other hand ran a terrible campaign, complacent and almost lazy.
The way I like to put it is that she wanted to give him enough rope to hang himself, but gave him so much rope his feet never left the ground.
Paul Lake's Left Knee
Well-Known Member
Except it is a mandate to govern, in the same way that the last government here only received a vote from around 20% of the population. The only places where a leader gets more than half of the population voting for them is where it's mandatory to vote and there's only a single choice.
So has he got a mandate and Obama wasnt described the same way?
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