Donald Trump

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Intelligent, not intelligent? Can we all agree that he is a total ****, the likes of whom, the world is better off without?

(I nearly forgot to put a question mark at the end of the last sentence; sorry for my near faux pas GDM)

I think very few would object. Hard to come up with an American who has taken more, given less and caused so much harm on such a national and even global scale.

Local news radio had a bit today on city council meetings, and what to do about people using "open mike" public comment periods to walk in and spew racist and anti-homosexual tirades, which is what has been happening in certain cities even here in largely-liberal Northern California. It's sickening. Hard to believe Trump's unwillingness to condemn virulent hatemongers of all stripes hasn't emboldened some or many of them.

 

[DrBlueBob]

I think very few would object. Hard to come up with an American who has taken more, given less and caused so much harm on such a national and even global scale.

Local news radio had a bit today on city council meetings, and what to do about people using "open mike" public comment periods to walk in and spew racist and anti-homosexual tirades, which is what has been happening in certain cities even here in largely-liberal Northern California. It's sickening. Hard to believe Trump's unwillingness to condemn virulent hatemongers of all stripes hasn't emboldened some or many of them.

I have repeatedly asked "When did lying become acceptable for a politician?"

Shame that stupidity and bigotry seemed related in some.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I have repeatedly asked "When did lying become acceptable for a politician?"

Shame that stupidity and bigotry seemed related in some.

When the narrative became "I am the instrument of revenge on all who have made your life miserable." Not "I'm going to make your life better by helping you" but "I'm going to make you feel better by king-fucking all the people you blame for fucking you -- and I'll tell you who those people are."

"Own the libs" is literally the only platform plank Trump, MAGA and (now by extension of course) the GOP has.

 

[roman totale]

When the narrative became "I am the instrument of revenge on all who have made your life miserable." Not "I'm going to make your life better by helping you" but "I'm going to make you feel better by king-fucking all the people you blame for fucking you -- and I'll tell you who those people are."

"Own the libs" is literally the only platform plank Trump, MAGA and (now by extension of course) the GOP has.

Early in his presidency there was a woman from Florida (duh!) who was being interviewed about something or the other. She complained about trump saying, “… I support him, but he’s not hurting the people who he should be hurting”. That was the WTF moment that encapsulated and laid bare everything about him and his ‘movement’.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

But he’s made the least of his opportunities, which he had in spades, because he’s done nothing but be “concentred all in self” his entire life despite all he was given. He’s used his wealth to bully and intimidate many, to mesmerize some, and to help literally no one but himself. The fact that there’s a sucker born every minute has nothing to do with his intelligence. The only reason he adept at finding them is that they seek him out because of all he was given from the get-go. And those he hasn’t grifted are grifting (read: blackmailing) him for their own purposes.

The Usual Suspects teaches a lesson here. “They realized to be in power, you didn’t need guns, or money or even numbers. You just needed the will to do what the other guy wouldn’t.” That's Trump. Willing to fuck over anyone and everyone to get what he wants and/or protect himself. Willing to break any and all moral codes as well as many actual laws to do so.

Being fundamentally and pathologically amoral and narcissistic isn’t intelligence.

As @Trevor Morley's Tache has referenced, he is a master manipulator. How is that not a form of intelligence? It plainly is. It’s intellectual snobbery to suggest otherwise.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

As @Trevor Morley's Tache has referenced, he is a master manipulator. How is that not a form of intelligence? It plainly is. It’s intellectual snobbery to suggest otherwise.

He's a goddamn stable genius... just ask him! LOL.

Trump is a sort of idiot savant - incredibly proficient at sensing what to say and do to appeal to his base; but astonishingly oblivious of basic common knowledge facts crucial to effective governance both domestically and internationally.

And unlike Biden who is prone to the more-than-occasional gaffe (he's always been this way), Trump is lately prone to major cognitive lapses - for example, the Nicki Haley versus Nancy Pelosi confusion. Trump repeatedly, over and over, mistakenly claimed that Haley was responsible for the Jan 6th capitol security. He's out of his mind.

Whereas Biden is frequently prone to slips of the tongue, for example, saying "Mexico" instead of "Egypt." But he's always been susceptible to this sort of thing. Biden knows full well who the president of Mexico is and who the leader of Egypt is.

Interestingly, experts in cognition have noted that those suffering from speech impediments such as stuttering, have to concentrate much more than the average person when speaking. As a result, the brain is taxed, concentrating on getting each word out. Under such circumstances, it turns out that accidental slips of the tongue are much more common.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

It's a little bit bizarre (maybe telling) that we're having the exact same conversation in both the Artificial Intelligence and Donald Trump threads with this "what is intelligence?" angle.

If I'm being consistent, I'll take the same position I take there - people overestimate what human intelligence is. We are all effectively just very well-trained monkeys, you put a bunch of training and experience in one end and occasionally novel combinations of this training applied to new situations comes out the other. What we consider intelligence is more about how efficient and effective that process is.

Some of us can rote learn to recite legal texts, some of us train our motor skills to be better at sports, some of us might be scientists thinking deeply about the biggest questions. It's all the same process, disguised as different things.

Trump's training may comprise conning, lies and manipulation - but he has found ways to apply this 'novel' approach to practically every situation he's ever been in. Like it or not, he is an innovator when it comes to being an absolute ****. It's hard to describe that as anything other than a form of intelligence.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

It's a little bit bizarre (maybe telling) that we're having the exact same conversation in both the Artificial Intelligence and Donald Trump threads with this "what is intelligence?" angle.

If I'm being consistent, I'll take the same position I take there - people overestimate what human intelligence is. We are all effectively just very well-trained monkeys, you put a bunch of training and experience in one end and occasionally novel combinations of this training applied to new situations comes out the other. What we consider intelligence is more about how efficient and effective that process is.

Some of us can rote learn to recite legal texts, some of us train our motor skills to be better at sports, some of us might be scientists thinking deeply about the biggest questions. It's all the same process, disguised as different things.

Trump's training may comprise conning, lies and manipulation - but he has found ways to apply this 'novel' approach to practically every situation he's ever been in. Like it or not, he is an innovator when it comes to being an absolute ****. It's hard to describe that as anything other than a form of intelligence.

Ever watch the film, "Rain Man"? Raymond Babbitt, the autistic savant in the film, is, by your reckoning, a genius. Raymond is easily able to count cards and can instantly tell how many toothpicks have fallen onto the floor.

So, yeah, in this same vein, Trump is a genius.

But in terms of working, everyday, intelligence, yet alone brilliance, Trump is an idiot. Not "idiot" in the sense that he disagrees with me, but "idiot" in the sense that he has virtually no idea whatsoever about what he's saying or doing, at all.

Proficiency in attracting followers is a form of intelligence, but singular excellence in this ability doesn't make one intelligent; that is, unless you're going to claim that Raymond Babbitt is intelligent.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Ever watch the film, "Rain Man"? Raymond Babbitt, the autistic savant in the film, is, by your reckoning, a genius. Raymond is easily able to count cards and can instantly tell how many toothpicks have fallen onto the floor.

So, yeah, in this same vein, Trump is a genius.

But in terms of working, everyday, intelligence, yet alone brilliance, Trump is an idiot. Not "idiot" in the sense that he disagrees with me, but "idiot" in the sense that he has virtually no idea whatsoever about what he's saying or doing, at all.

Proficiency in attracting followers is a form of intelligence, but singular excellence in this ability doesn't make one intelligent; that is, unless you're going to claim that Raymond Babbitt is intelligent.

But then we're talking about different definitions of intelligence. At the most fundamental level Raymond is intelligent, he is doing intelligent things, his intelligence is just extremely narrow. If we found a planet in space with an entire civilisation of Raymond Babbitt's on it, nobody would disagree that we've found "intelligent life".

What you're talking about is a more generalised and balanced form of intelligence across disciplines, a kind of renaissance-man mental architecture - I would never accuse Trump of being above average in this respect. When it comes to a general cognitive ability, he is an idiot.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

For those who think that Trump is intelligent, contrast Trump with Nixon.

Consider, for example:


or


or etc.

You may detest Nixon, but there's no arguing that the man was a genius.

Trump, on the other hand, is a fucking moron.