Donald Trump

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ's divinity?"

"Yes."

"So you believe the bible is the truth?"

"Yes."

"ALL of the Bible, right? Because if some parts aren't true, maybe the the Gospels aren't and therefore Jesus might not have done all the things that were said of him."

"Right."

"In fact, the Bible must be literal truth, right?"

"Yes."

"OK. I have one word for you: dinosaurs."

"Oh fuck."

It's all a matter of connecting yourself to a belief structure and tying yourself to the mast in the face of evidence supporting contrary positions. It's the logic process those use to support Trump no matter what. They cannot accept contrary evidence that might shift their beliefs because their beliefs are all they have to guide them through this life and if they're shaken they have no roadmap, and therefore, no hope.
 
"OK. I have one word for you: dinosaurs."
Evangelical christians who believe that the world is some mere thousands of years old have embraced dinosaurs - "We believe in dinosaurs."

There's no limit to reality/scientific denialism among the fervent believers. Your dinosaur argument has been anticipated and indeed incorporated into their belief structure.
 
"Do you believe in Jesus Christ's divinity?"

"Yes."

"So you believe the bible is the truth?"

"Yes."

"ALL of the Bible, right? Because if some parts aren't true, maybe the the Gospels aren't and therefore Jesus might not have done all the things that were said of him."

"Right."

"In fact, the Bible must be literal truth, right?"

"Yes."

"OK. I have one word for you: dinosaurs."

"Oh fuck."

It's all a matter of connecting yourself to a belief structure and tying yourself to the mast in the face of evidence supporting contrary positions. It's the logic process those use to support Trump no matter what. They cannot accept contrary evidence that might shift their beliefs because their beliefs are all they have to guide them through this life and if they're shaken they have no roadmap, and therefore, no hope.

I gave been told by a born again Christian that dinosaur fossils were put there by the devil to test faith.
 
"Do you believe in Jesus Christ's divinity?"

"Yes."

"So you believe the bible is the truth?"

"Yes."

"ALL of the Bible, right? Because if some parts aren't true, maybe the the Gospels aren't and therefore Jesus might not have done all the things that were said of him."

"Right."

"In fact, the Bible must be literal truth, right?"

"Yes."

"OK. I have one word for you: dinosaurs."

"Oh fuck."

It's all a matter of connecting yourself to a belief structure and tying yourself to the mast in the face of evidence supporting contrary positions. It's the logic process those use to support Trump no matter what. They cannot accept contrary evidence that might shift their beliefs because their beliefs are all they have to guide them through this life and if they're shaken they have no roadmap, and therefore, no hope.

I think I understand the broader point you are making about certain types of belief systems and I can't speak for the US but I would say that mischaracterises many of the rump of Christians in the UK for whom doubt and and questioning is an integral part of their faith. Not to mention the huge number of clergy over the centuries whose search for understanding have been responsible for great scientific advances.

I go to a church where I'm pretty sure there isn't a single person who (a) doesn't embrace evolution and (b) doesn't question their own beliefs at times. I get and understand that we are viewed as 'Jesus is magic' nutters by a large proportion of the population but unthinking science deniers would be a mischaracterisation based on my own experience.
 
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Evangelical christians who believe that the world is some mere thousands of years old have embraced dinosaurs - "We believe in dinosaurs."

There's no limit to reality/scientific denialism among the fervent believers. Your dinosaur argument has been anticipated and indeed incorporated into their belief structure.
Sure, because they are the most interesting topic among many in the scientific past, especially to children. I could have put millions of other contradictory words in there. They haven't incorporated all of them. They can't. It's not possible. There's also no "belief" about dinosaurs. The very sentence is senseless. The point is to demonstrate how far those who cling to beliefs will go to protect them. As Rufus said, "I'd rather have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier."
 
I think I understand the broader point you are making about certain types of belief systems and I can't speak for the US but I would say that mischaracterises many of the rump of Christians in the UK for whom doubt and and questioning is an integral part of their faith. Not too mention the huge number of clergy over the centuries whose search for understanding have been responsible for great scientific advances.

I go to a church where I'm pretty sure there isn't a single person who (a) doesn't embrace evolution and (b) doesn't question their own beliefs at times. I get and understand that we are viewed as 'Jesus is magic' nutters by a large proportion of the population but unthinking science deniers would be a mischaracterisation based on my own experience.
It's not meant to be religious -- it's meant to draw parallels between belief structures and how easy is is to cling to illogic or contrary evidence to defend them.

Church is a community of like-minded, connected humans. My wife is Unitarian; I was raised Roman Catholic. In both our case the religious communities in which we grew up were extremely important to us, and the relationships we forged and good we accomplished under those banners meant far more to both of us than the dogma associated with either.
 
There's also no "belief" about dinosaurs.
Huh? Have you watched the documentary I quoted?

Evangelicals are engaged in all-out denialism of science, and if means incorporating a few old bones that have somehow turned to stone into their teachings, that's no matter. They'll open a theme part to show just how wrong any belief that isn't accord with what they preach is wrong.
 
Huh? Have you watched the documentary I quoted?

Evangelicals are engaged in all-out denialism of science, and if means incorporating a few old bones that have somehow turned to stone into their teachings, that's no matter. They'll open a theme part to show just how wrong any belief that isn't accord with what they preach is wrong.
No, I mean, the quote/words -- "we believe in dinosaurs" -- makes no sense.
 
"Do you believe in Jesus Christ's divinity?"

"Yes."

"So you believe the bible is the truth?"

"Yes."

"ALL of the Bible, right? Because if some parts aren't true, maybe the the Gospels aren't and therefore Jesus might not have done all the things that were said of him."

"Right."

"In fact, the Bible must be literal truth, right?"

"Yes."

"OK. I have one word for you: dinosaurs."

"Oh fuck."

It's all a matter of connecting yourself to a belief structure and tying yourself to the mast in the face of evidence supporting contrary positions. It's the logic process those use to support Trump no matter what. They cannot accept contrary evidence that might shift their beliefs because their beliefs are all they have to guide them through this life and if they're shaken they have no roadmap, and therefore, no hope.
It’s also important to remember how the dynamics of a cult (which is what MAGAism is) are designed to entrap members. When someone joins—either slowly or all at once—they are not only indoctrinated to reject all evidence contrary to the beliefs of the cult, they are pressured (or outright instructed) to cut off ties with all others that are not true believers (members of the cult). This shrinks their community, and subsequently their perception of their own general value and purpose, to only the collective of zealots and manipulative (and most often abusive and exploitive) leaders.

Often times they are even pressured or instructed to either give all of their wealth to the cult (again, usually to the leaders) or just give it away. This further isolates them and makes them much more (or entirely) dependent on the cult community for survival, much less prosperity. It also tends to strengthen the hold the cult leadership has on the common members and acolytes, as the leadership often use the wealth to maintain systems of containment and control.

Once more, cults often establish and demonstrate dire (sometimes violent) consequences for leaving, whatever your reason. They make it clear that not only will you never be allowed to return, but they will make you pay for your desertion long after your departure. In some ways, you will always be a member, whether you like it or not. Till death do you part.

This has the very intentional consequence of making disavowing the cult’s teachings and beliefs not just a matter of changing one’s mind—with all of the psychological difficulty that comes with that process—but also losing the only source of social and financial support you now have, and likely making your life outside of the cult miserable (or unlikely).

Of course, for some within MAGA it is not quite as extreme as joining Heaven’s Gate or Jonestown. But some of these elements are very much present, particularly the radicalisation, shifting indoctrination, social isolation, psychological and financial exploitation (sometimes to an extreme, as we are seeing now), deserter punishment, and definitely leader worship.

For most still in the movement at this point, they have gone all in, committing their mind, body, soul, and worldly possessions. For many, the idea of renouncing their beliefs comes with very real, very undesirable consequences. Their entire sense of self has become entrenched the MAGA world.

It really isn’t that far off of the development of the Nazi social order.

So in addition to what you have said, which is a very real hinderance to efforts to breakdown the MAGA cult and free the minds of the cultists, you also have the structural constraints limiting success.

TL;DR
MAGA is a cult and members experience many of the constraints and dangers inherent to cult membership (and degenerate, megalomaniacal leaders). The cult’s structure and systems of control make it that much harder to help them break free of the ideology.
 
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No, I mean, the quote/words -- "we believe in dinosaurs" -- makes no sense.
I'm not sure what you mean then - in a post above, I replied to you citing a documentary with the exact same title showing that evangelicals (at least some of them) not only believe in dinosaurs, but that they have built a theme park based on this very belief.

The theme park is - of course - scientifically inaccurate. Yet it illustrates how facile evangelicals can be - incorporating any evidence that refutes their beliefs - into core tenants in support of their doctrine.
 

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