Donald Trump

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

There is two issues here. The decent Republicans will see what is going on and down tools. The maga idiots will fill the space and they won't have the experience or intelligence to do a good job. That is on top of the draining of cash out of the machine.

The net result will be a significant deterioration in the ground game and the grass roots political activity. Its unprecedented and another factor adding to the unknowns of this race.

My initial reaction to this problem for Republicans is that it is mostly down to partisan gerrymandering - districts are divided up such that most are extremely pro-Republican or pro-Democrat. This artificial division of a state into partisan voting districts results in the nomination and election into office of candidates with extreme positions in accord with the prevailing view of their respective districts.

And yet, State-wide elections, free of the gerrymandering problem - seem to elect polarizing figures too. The US Senate is a much more reasonable governing body than is the House - and yet, the Senate too is subject to Trump's influence.
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IMO, the way in which elections are run in the USA, is in need of a massive revamp. Mathematical models exist which help ensure that the "best," "most liked" candidate will win election - and these models result in compromise, non-radical, middle-of-the-road officials.

Unfortunately, there's almost no chance that such models will be adapted in the USA - as such change often requires a 2/3rd's vote of Congress and/or of the States.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Well we're definitely seeing a backlash against evolutionism...in fact failures of evolution are exponentially booming

In the USA, we're seeing a resurgence of evangelical christian beliefs - the world is some mere thousands of years old and men walked alongside dinosaurs some few years ago. Both such beliefs are completely unsupported by scientific evidence... and yet, the evangelicals cling to this narrative and desperately support Trump in the mistaken belief that he believes this bullshit too.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ's divinity?"

"Yes."

"So you believe the bible is the truth?"

"Yes."

"ALL of the Bible, right? Because if some parts aren't true, maybe the the Gospels aren't and therefore Jesus might not have done all the things that were said of him."

"Right."

"In fact, the Bible must be literal truth, right?"

"Yes."

"OK. I have one word for you: dinosaurs."

"Oh fuck."

It's all a matter of connecting yourself to a belief structure and tying yourself to the mast in the face of evidence supporting contrary positions. It's the logic process those use to support Trump no matter what. They cannot accept contrary evidence that might shift their beliefs because their beliefs are all they have to guide them through this life and if they're shaken they have no roadmap, and therefore, no hope.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

"OK. I have one word for you: dinosaurs."

Evangelical christians who believe that the world is some mere thousands of years old have embraced dinosaurs - "We believe in dinosaurs."

We Believe in Dinosaurs | Bible and Science Collide | Independent Lens | PBS

The Bible and science collide over a Kentucky creationism museum and a $120 million Noah’s Ark-inspired theme park.

www.pbs.org

There's no limit to reality/scientific denialism among the fervent believers. Your dinosaur argument has been anticipated and indeed incorporated into their belief structure.

 

[grunge]

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ's divinity?"

"Yes."

"So you believe the bible is the truth?"

"Yes."

"ALL of the Bible, right? Because if some parts aren't true, maybe the the Gospels aren't and therefore Jesus might not have done all the things that were said of him."

"Right."

"In fact, the Bible must be literal truth, right?"

"Yes."

"OK. I have one word for you: dinosaurs."

"Oh fuck."

It's all a matter of connecting yourself to a belief structure and tying yourself to the mast in the face of evidence supporting contrary positions. It's the logic process those use to support Trump no matter what. They cannot accept contrary evidence that might shift their beliefs because their beliefs are all they have to guide them through this life and if they're shaken they have no roadmap, and therefore, no hope.

I gave been told by a born again Christian that dinosaur fossils were put there by the devil to test faith.

 

[threespires]

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ's divinity?"

"Yes."

"So you believe the bible is the truth?"

"Yes."

"ALL of the Bible, right? Because if some parts aren't true, maybe the the Gospels aren't and therefore Jesus might not have done all the things that were said of him."

"Right."

"In fact, the Bible must be literal truth, right?"

"Yes."

"OK. I have one word for you: dinosaurs."

"Oh fuck."

It's all a matter of connecting yourself to a belief structure and tying yourself to the mast in the face of evidence supporting contrary positions. It's the logic process those use to support Trump no matter what. They cannot accept contrary evidence that might shift their beliefs because their beliefs are all they have to guide them through this life and if they're shaken they have no roadmap, and therefore, no hope.

I think I understand the broader point you are making about certain types of belief systems and I can't speak for the US but I would say that mischaracterises many of the rump of Christians in the UK for whom doubt and and questioning is an integral part of their faith. Not to mention the huge number of clergy over the centuries whose search for understanding have been responsible for great scientific advances.

I go to a church where I'm pretty sure there isn't a single person who (a) doesn't embrace evolution and (b) doesn't question their own beliefs at times. I get and understand that we are viewed as 'Jesus is magic' nutters by a large proportion of the population but unthinking science deniers would be a mischaracterisation based on my own experience.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Evangelical christians who believe that the world is some mere thousands of years old have embraced dinosaurs - "We believe in dinosaurs."

We Believe in Dinosaurs | Bible and Science Collide | Independent Lens | PBS

The Bible and science collide over a Kentucky creationism museum and a $120 million Noah’s Ark-inspired theme park.

www.pbs.org

There's no limit to reality/scientific denialism among the fervent believers. Your dinosaur argument has been anticipated and indeed incorporated into their belief structure.

Sure, because they are the most interesting topic among many in the scientific past, especially to children. I could have put millions of other contradictory words in there. They haven't incorporated all of them. They can't. It's not possible. There's also no "belief" about dinosaurs. The very sentence is senseless. The point is to demonstrate how far those who cling to beliefs will go to protect them. As Rufus said, "I'd rather have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier."

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I think I understand the broader point you are making about certain types of belief systems and I can't speak for the US but I would say that mischaracterises many of the rump of Christians in the UK for whom doubt and and questioning is an integral part of their faith. Not too mention the huge number of clergy over the centuries whose search for understanding have been responsible for great scientific advances.

I go to a church where I'm pretty sure there isn't a single person who (a) doesn't embrace evolution and (b) doesn't question their own beliefs at times. I get and understand that we are viewed as 'Jesus is magic' nutters by a large proportion of the population but unthinking science deniers would be a mischaracterisation based on my own experience.

It's not meant to be religious -- it's meant to draw parallels between belief structures and how easy is is to cling to illogic or contrary evidence to defend them.

Church is a community of like-minded, connected humans. My wife is Unitarian; I was raised Roman Catholic. In both our case the religious communities in which we grew up were extremely important to us, and the relationships we forged and good we accomplished under those banners meant far more to both of us than the dogma associated with either.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

There's also no "belief" about dinosaurs.

Huh? Have you watched the documentary I quoted?

Evangelicals are engaged in all-out denialism of science, and if means incorporating a few old bones that have somehow turned to stone into their teachings, that's no matter. They'll open a theme part to show just how wrong any belief that isn't accord with what they preach is wrong.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Huh? Have you watched the documentary I quoted?

Evangelicals are engaged in all-out denialism of science, and if means incorporating a few old bones that have somehow turned to stone into their teachings, that's no matter. They'll open a theme part to show just how wrong any belief that isn't accord with what they preach is wrong.

No, I mean, the quote/words -- "we believe in dinosaurs" -- makes no sense.