Dzeko, Tevez and the system

I completely agree with Mancio that '4-4-2 with really fast wingers' is definitely not an option. A flat 4-4-2 (or traditional British 4-4-2) suits very few of our players, surely the system that suits our players is the diamond that Mancio has alluded to, or the 4-2-3-1 that most top teams around the world seem to be using. Something like this:

--------YT----NDJ--------

DS---------CT-----------SMB

-----------ED----------------

I realise that Tevez was brilliant as our lone striker in the second half of last season, winning matches on his own. However I think we cannot rely on Tevez to be our focal point of the attack all of the time. Rightly so of course, take away his freedom to roam and you lose a lot of his potential. We will be more threatening with Dzeko as a focal point, and ideally Balotelli to run in behind the defenders with his pace. Silva naturally drifts inside and dictates the game as he has done so well all season. The two central midfielders speak for themselves in this system (as much as I rate Barry and his performances this season, and as much as I believe Milner will be an excellent player for us).

Now if Silva does drift inside and Balotelli is pushing high up the pitch, there is no width supplied by our midfielders, how on earth will we cope?! We will get our width from the same place as Barcelona get theirs-the fullbacks. Kolarov is a superb attacking full back and will improve defensively, remember Evra getting torn apart by Tricky Trevor Sinclair on his debut? Dani Alves or Van der Wiel would be a great addition on the right hand to play a similar role.

Of course, there is no such thing as a 'first 11' any more. In big matches we will probably revert to 'three defensive midfielders.' Ferguson over the road hasn't played the same team in succession for something like a million games. Football is very much a squad game, but I think the 4-2-3-1 is what Mancini is working towards. If Tevez goes in summer then perhaps Silva will take his position, and Johnson will step up to the plate to become more of a regular. Or perhaps Yaya will retain his advanced position and Milner or Barry will come into the side.

That's my take on it anyway. We've been unfortunate that Mancini hasn't had any games where he's been able to field Silva, Dzeko, Tevez, and Balotelli. I for one however back Mancini to the hilt, and when we get those 4 on the pitch, there won't be many sides who can match that attacking force.
 
Solihull Samba Boys said:
I completely agree with Mancio that '4-4-2 with really fast wingers' is definitely not an option. A flat 4-4-2 (or traditional British 4-4-2) suits very few of our players, surely the system that suits our players is the diamond that Mancio has alluded to, or the 4-2-3-1 that most top teams around the world seem to be using. Something like this:

--------YT----NDJ--------

DS---------CT-----------SMB

-----------ED----------------

I realise that Tevez was brilliant as our lone striker in the second half of last season, winning matches on his own. However I think we cannot rely on Tevez to be our focal point of the attack all of the time. Rightly so of course, take away his freedom to roam and you lose a lot of his potential. We will be more threatening with Dzeko as a focal point, and ideally Balotelli to run in behind the defenders with his pace. Silva naturally drifts inside and dictates the game as he has done so well all season. The two central midfielders speak for themselves in this system (as much as I rate Barry and his performances this season, and as much as I believe Milner will be an excellent player for us).

Now if Silva does drift inside and Balotelli is pushing high up the pitch, there is no width supplied by our midfielders, how on earth will we cope?! We will get our width from the same place as Barcelona get theirs-the fullbacks. Kolarov is a superb attacking full back and will improve defensively, remember Evra getting torn apart by Tricky Trevor Sinclair on his debut? Dani Alves or Van der Wiel would be a great addition on the right hand to play a similar role.

Of course, there is no such thing as a 'first 11' any more. In big matches we will probably revert to 'three defensive midfielders.' Ferguson over the road hasn't played the same team in succession for something like a million games. Football is very much a squad game, but I think the 4-2-3-1 is what Mancini is working towards. If Tevez goes in summer then perhaps Silva will take his position, and Johnson will step up to the plate to become more of a regular. Or perhaps Yaya will retain his advanced position and Milner or Barry will come into the side.

That's my take on it anyway. We've been unfortunate that Mancini hasn't had any games where he's been able to field Silva, Dzeko, Tevez, and Balotelli. I for one however back Mancini to the hilt, and when we get those 4 on the pitch, there won't be many sides who can match that attacking force.

I think if there were a vote for which formation/team selection we should play that one would win by a landslide!

Just listened to Mancini's PC and it seems Mario is back at the end of next week so I think we'll know soon enough what he sees as his ideal formation and team selection.
 
Why is everyone putting Dzeko up front on his own...he has said over and over and over again that he hates being the lone guy upfront and struggles....Steve Mclaren tried playing 4-2-3-1 when he first came to Wolfsburg with Dzeko up front and it just didn't work, Dzeko showed his dissaproval too...he needs someone up there with him to link up with.
 
BIG DONKEY said:
Why is everyone putting Dzeko up front on his own...he has said over and over and over again that he hates being the lone guy upfront and struggles....Steve Mclaren tried playing 4-2-3-1 when he first came to Wolfsburg with Dzeko up front and it just didn't work, Dzeko showed his dissaproval too...he needs someone up there with him to link up with.

The thing is, that system with those players, makes it completely fluid. Dzeko could drop deep and Carlos could move up top. Balo could move up top and Dzeko to the left. It's not 4231 with an isolated target man and two out and out wingers. It's a narrow way of playing which relies on the forward players interchanging positions, and playing quite close to each other...
 
BIG DONKEY said:
Why is everyone putting Dzeko up front on his own...he has said over and over and over again that he hates being the lone guy upfront and struggles....Steve Mclaren tried playing 4-2-3-1 when he first came to Wolfsburg with Dzeko up front and it just didn't work, Dzeko showed his dissaproval too...he needs someone up there with him to link up with.

Tevez and Balotelli will provide enough support mate I think. Add to that under McClaren Dzeko got a lot less service that he had done before, after Misimovic left and Diego came in, and just couldn't replicate his Werder Bremen form that made him a star. Having said that, 10 goals in 17 games in half a season isn't bad going!
 
Going with the current squad then i'd like to see
Zab...Komp...Lescott....Kol
....Milner...DJ.....Silva....
...Tev....Dzeko......Balo.....

Plenty of mobility/adaptability with the front 6 and decent support from the full backs.
 
Balotelli is the key imo, keep him fit until the end of the season (*prays*) and we will piss top3.

With regards to the system, I believe we have to play Dave central in Yaya's spot with Yaya replacing Barry. Carlos as the link-man doesn't posess the vision to make us tick.

For me:

........................Hart.......................
Zab...........Vince.......Boat........Kolarov
.................NDJ.........Yaya...............
........Tevez........Dave.........Balo.........
.......................Dzeko.......................

Although I won't put another system diagram I also think we can somewhat dispense with the 4-2-3-1 and play it more as a 4-1-4-1 with NDJ sitting and Yaya playing further up with Dave.
 
Rammy Blue said:
Balotelli is the key imo, keep him fit until the end of the season (*prays*) and we will piss top3.

With regards to the system, I believe we have to play Dave central in Yaya's spot with Yaya replacing Barry. Carlos as the link-man doesn't posess the vision to make us tick.

For me:

........................Hart.......................
Zab...........Vince.......Boat........Kolarov
.................NDJ.........Yaya...............
........Tevez........Dave.........Balo.........
.......................Dzeko.......................

Although I won't put another system diagram I also think we can somewhat dispense with the 4-2-3-1 and play it more as a 4-1-4-1 with NDJ sitting and Yaya playing further up with Dave.

The issue I reckon with the above is that I don't think Mancini will trust Carlos to play from a wide position...and to be perfectly honest I think Carlos won't play with any discipline at all if he's put wide...

In an ideal world I agree though that Silva should be the one 'in the hole' so to speak - with Carlos playing as he did for Argentina in the WC...
 
BillyShears said:
Rammy Blue said:
Balotelli is the key imo, keep him fit until the end of the season (*prays*) and we will piss top3.

With regards to the system, I believe we have to play Dave central in Yaya's spot with Yaya replacing Barry. Carlos as the link-man doesn't posess the vision to make us tick.

For me:

........................Hart.......................
Zab...........Vince.......Boat........Kolarov
.................NDJ.........Yaya...............
........Tevez........Dave.........Balo.........
.......................Dzeko.......................

Although I won't put another system diagram I also think we can somewhat dispense with the 4-2-3-1 and play it more as a 4-1-4-1 with NDJ sitting and Yaya playing further up with Dave.

The issue I reckon with the above is that I don't think Mancini will trust Carlos to play from a wide position...and to be perfectly honest I think Carlos won't play with any discipline at all if he's put wide...

In an ideal world I agree though that Silva should be the one 'in the hole' so to speak - with Carlos playing as he did for Argentina in the WC...

I reckon while Mario is injured our best system/lineup is the 4-3-1-2 that the Argies used in the World Cup. They had Messi just behind Higuain and Tevez with three central midfielders, even though central midfield is an unfamiliar position for Di Maria. Certainly I think we should play this against Birmingham because their pitch is quite narrow, and short, sharp passing will tear them apart. It's not as if Ferguson and Bowyer are getting any quicker and the loss of Scott Dann is a huge blow for them. Hopefully Mario is back by West Brom.
 

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