Dzeko

[pudge]

When it comes to holding up the ball/shielding and air duels/kick outs - one could argue Dzeko is better in that respect than any other of our three forwards (reserving judgement on RVP, didnt watch many of his games last year) especially since Aguero and Tevez are fucking midgets. Just have a go at cricket or something...

I'm a fan of Dzeko, i like him, i want him to stay... but he's a player who continually manages to combine Sunday League and Champions League football into a single performance.

Aguero and Tevez are two of the trickiest players to win the ball from, Tevez perhaps one of the best in the league at using his body to protect the ball. Dzeko's first touch is oten 2 yards away from him, which makes shielding the ball quite difficult.

As you've said yourself... Cricket?

We're talking about two different things...seems you're talking about running with the ball, facing the goal - where Tevez and Aguero are far superior players...as they are both more agile, faster, and technically superior.
I was referring more to hold up with back towards the goal, setting up counter-attacks, and kick-outs (Joe or back 4)...there is only one reason why they are in 90% of time aimed towards Dzeko. Two completely different aspects of the game, where in the latter Dzeko is far more superior than any other forward on the team (with Mario closing in, it seems).

-- Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:38 pm --

I'm a fan of Dzeko, i like him, i want him to stay... but he's a player who continually manages to combine Sunday League and Champions League football into a single performance.

Aguero and Tevez are two of the trickiest players to win the ball from, Tevez perhaps one of the best in the league at using his body to protect the ball. Dzeko's first touch is oten 2 yards away from him, which makes shielding the ball quite difficult.

As you've said yourself... Cricket?

Seems that, Eagles Fan apart, we are mostly of a like mind here. I too like Dzeko, I think he's good for morale, scores a few goals, and get him running into space and he's a reasonably inventive and dangerous player. However, his first touch with his back to goal is consistently awful, and if anyone thinks differently then I suggest they go use Balotelli, whose first touch is exquisite under pressure, as a comparison.

Look - all I'm saying is that some people are overexaggerating the whole "first touch" thing...it's not great, but it's not awful either.

If his first touch was "of a rapist", in the end, he would NOT BE PLAYING for MCFC, nor would he be desired by many scouts and managers as he is.

He wouldnt be able to get away with it if his first touch was THAT poor, and it's not like this was his first season...kid already has a great career behind him.
That's why I call it going overboard with the whole "first touch" brigade.

Judging by the cult following he has it would seem a shrewd business move for a club to sign him, regardless of his first touch (which is atrocious btw)

 

[Rolee]

I'm a fan of Dzeko, i like him, i want him to stay... but he's a player who continually manages to combine Sunday League and Champions League football into a single performance.

Aguero and Tevez are two of the trickiest players to win the ball from, Tevez perhaps one of the best in the league at using his body to protect the ball. Dzeko's first touch is oten 2 yards away from him, which makes shielding the ball quite difficult.

As you've said yourself... Cricket?

We're talking about two different things...seems you're talking about running with the ball, facing the goal - where Tevez and Aguero are far superior players...as they are both more agile, faster, and technically superior.
I was referring more to hold up with back towards the goal, setting up counter-attacks, and kick-outs (Joe or back 4)...there is only one reason why they are in 90% of time aimed towards Dzeko. Two completely different aspects of the game, where in the latter Dzeko is far more superior than any other forward on the team (with Mario closing in, it seems).

-- Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:38 pm --

Seems that, Eagles Fan apart, we are mostly of a like mind here. I too like Dzeko, I think he's good for morale, scores a few goals, and get him running into space and he's a reasonably inventive and dangerous player. However, his first touch with his back to goal is consistently awful, and if anyone thinks differently then I suggest they go use Balotelli, whose first touch is exquisite under pressure, as a comparison.

Look - all I'm saying is that some people are overexaggerating the whole "first touch" thing...it's not great, but it's not awful either.

If his first touch was "of a rapist", in the end, he would NOT BE PLAYING for MCFC, nor would he be desired by many scouts and managers as he is.

He wouldnt be able to get away with it if his first touch was THAT poor, and it's not like this was his first season...kid already has a great career behind him.
That's why I call it going overboard with the whole "first touch" brigade.

Judging by the cult following he has it would seem a shrewd business move for a club to sign him, regardless of his first touch (which is atrocious btw)

It's not always atrocious, I've seen him have a sublime first touch on occasion. The problem with Dzeko is a lack of consistency in his play. From Zidane to Kilbane in the blink of an eye.

 

[pudge]

We're talking about two different things...seems you're talking about running with the ball, facing the goal - where Tevez and Aguero are far superior players...as they are both more agile, faster, and technically superior.
I was referring more to hold up with back towards the goal, setting up counter-attacks, and kick-outs (Joe or back 4)...there is only one reason why they are in 90% of time aimed towards Dzeko. Two completely different aspects of the game, where in the latter Dzeko is far more superior than any other forward on the team (with Mario closing in, it seems).

-- Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:38 pm --



Look - all I'm saying is that some people are overexaggerating the whole "first touch" thing...it's not great, but it's not awful either.

If his first touch was "of a rapist", in the end, he would NOT BE PLAYING for MCFC, nor would he be desired by many scouts and managers as he is.

He wouldnt be able to get away with it if his first touch was THAT poor, and it's not like this was his first season...kid already has a great career behind him.
That's why I call it going overboard with the whole "first touch" brigade.

Judging by the cult following he has it would seem a shrewd business move for a club to sign him, regardless of his first touch (which is atrocious btw)

It's not always atrocious, I've seen him have a sublime first touch on occasion. The problem with Dzeko is a lack of consistency in his play. From Zidane to Kilbane in the blink of an eye.

It's more Zidane to Kilbane to Andy Reid to Titus Bramble to Bebe to Heskey then back to Zidane (even though I'm doing Zidane a great injustice)

 

[jlc09]

Dzeko has the first touch of a rapist, and plays as though he wearing clown shoes BUT the fact remains that he had a better goals per minutes played average last season than Wayne Rooney (if you take out penners, which Rooney takes for Utd but Dzeko doesnt for us).

And one is a hero, yet the other one is a failure.

That's because watching both for 5 minutes shows that one is leagues ahead of the other.

 

[mccity]

Dzeko's weird for me. His first touch can be questionable at times, but once he gets the ball under control he's brilliant at holding/carrying it. Think back to his debut vs Wolves, or away at Liverpool or QPR last season, or the obvious Tottenham game. He can hold it better than Aguero or Balotelli, and almost as well as Tevez. I think that needs to be appreciated.

 

[sbm]

Dzeko has the first touch of a rapist, and plays as though he wearing clown shoes BUT the fact remains that he had a better goals per minutes played average last season than Wayne Rooney (if you take out penners, which Rooney takes for Utd but Dzeko doesnt for us).

And one is a hero, yet the other one is a failure.

That's because watching both for 5 minutes shows that one is leagues ahead of the other.

That is because you swallow the media hype and media caricatures.

In the last few games of the season, Rooney had more bad first touches per game than I can recall seeing any premier league player have. The TV commentators glossed over these bad touches (as they normally do when he makes a mistake). Interestingly Ferguson himself didn't. He said about these very same performances: "When we are poor, Wayne is the worst offender" (or words to that effect). But this was ignored by most, if not all, the football writers (who were convinced that Rooney was our only hope in Euro2012 and who in any case come to believe their own hype).

This is the way with threads on Edin Dzeko. A couple of posters come out with smart arse comments about his first touch and the SHEEP - emboldened - come out to play. If Dzeko was Brazilian or Spanish, these sheep would follow the same gang leaders in drooling over him.

Where are the facts about first touches? Well here are some facts:

* Edin has a better career record in terms of minutes per goal than Kun, Mario, Carlos, Rooney, van Persie and Torres.

* Edin has a better career record in terms of minutes per assist than Kun, Mario, Carlos, Rooney, van Persie and Torres. Incidentally he has a better minutes per assist than some 'playmakers' (e.g. Samir Nasri).

Why don't the anti-Dzeko brigade deal with these facts? If they don't think that FACTS about GOALS and about ASSISTS are that important when talking about STRIKERS, they should follow ballet dancing or equestrian dressage (rather than cricket, where, of course, correspondents and fans are not stupid enough to make assertions that fly in the face of facts ).

 

[BlueAnorak]

Next season, teams WILL defend deep against us
AND let our full backs have the ball for as long as they want it till they approach the penalty area
AND use an Extra DM come CH to give Silva/yaYa/Auero an extra player to pass round.

To counter act this Next season we have to:
[1] Cross better and/or get more players into the box to be dangerous from the cross AND
[2] Counter attack more quickly. Allowing teams to quickly get 10 men behind the ball and rely on our passing skills to get round them WONT BE AS SUCCESSFUL.

Dzeko is the only current striker we have who is both good in the air and good on the counter attack Two attributes that we will have to exploit better next season to remain top of the pile. He is also a big game player (.i.e. he scores goals when they are needed).

The anti-Dzeko brigade are crazy if they want to get rid of the one player we currently have who CAN (and does) deliver a solution that is not Tiki-Taka.

 

[BringBackSwales]

I am really really surprised at the continued need for some people to slag good City players off - we just won the league and yet poster after poster wants to have a pop at certain players - Dzeko now, but it has also been the case with Barry, Kolarov, Richards, Hart, Lescott, Mario, Milner, De Jong, Nasri, Johnson, Yaya bloody Toure and David Silva even - I accept that it is a debating place but through my blue tinted specs I don't have feel a lot of City fans have become spoiled and snidey - and fuck the tin hat, I just happen to be a very happy Blue who gets a bit pissed off with unmerited negativity

 

[cmdub]

he's not leaving and I'll he shocked if we get rvp. the fact that u have someone like dzeko with his quality who is willing to sit on the bench ans fight for a place says a lot to me. we just won the league, buying a new striker is the last thing we need... let rvp go to juve and make milans life miserable

 

[city diehard]

Unlike all Adebayors and Santa Cruses of this team - Edin was a VITAL part of championship season...people should consider that when speaking about "offloading".

"Goals per appearance" is the most ridiculous and pointless stat in modern football - since it considers even two-minute cameons at the end of games.

"oh, but he didnt score in 7 appearances"...GTFO - he played combined 200 minutes in them...and that's his BAD spell.

Edin's goals per minute speak enough of his value as STRIKER.

Really hope he stays, he can be a big part of a great, young team.

End of.

-- Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:39 am --

"if he could have Tottenham-like performance every two games"...REALLY?

Wasnt that this clubs RECORD for goals scored in one league game (if I remember correctly)? So he should have record-setting performance every few games...?

How brilliant. Some people are just...duh.

Doesn't excuse his sheer ineptitude of being able to keep hold of the fcuking thing and retain possession. Elementary football, three other three strikers and most likely RVP, goes without saying have this trait. Get rid.

In bold - something you dont have a first clue about, apparently?

When it comes to holding up the ball/shielding and air duels/kick outs - one could argue Dzeko is better in that respect than any other of our three forwards (reserving judgement on RVP, didnt watch many of his games last year) especially since Aguero and Tevez are fucking midgets. Just have a go at cricket or something...

Didn't you catch the numerous amount of times that he couldn't even trap a bag of cement or does your obsession with his player blind you from such flaws in his game?

 

[BIG DONKEY]

Doesn't excuse his sheer ineptitude of being able to keep hold of the fcuking thing and retain possession. Elementary football, three other three strikers and most likely RVP, goes without saying have this trait. Get rid.

In bold - something you dont have a first clue about, apparently?

When it comes to holding up the ball/shielding and air duels/kick outs - one could argue Dzeko is better in that respect than any other of our three forwards (reserving judgement on RVP, didnt watch many of his games last year) especially since Aguero and Tevez are fucking midgets. Just have a go at cricket or something...

Didn't you catch the numerous amount of times that he couldn't even trap a bag of cement or does your obsession with his player blind you from such flaws in his game?

it's a completely irrelevant and trivial matter when looking at his scoring/assist rates

 

[pudge]

In bold - something you dont have a first clue about, apparently?

When it comes to holding up the ball/shielding and air duels/kick outs - one could argue Dzeko is better in that respect than any other of our three forwards (reserving judgement on RVP, didnt watch many of his games last year) especially since Aguero and Tevez are fucking midgets. Just have a go at cricket or something...

Didn't you catch the numerous amount of times that he couldn't even trap a bag of cement or does your obsession with his player blind you from such flaws in his game?

it's a completely irrelevant and trivial matter when looking at his scoring/assist rates

Same could be said for the likes of Gomez, but I wouldn't want him at City.

 

[ForzaMancini]

Problem with Dzeko is I remember thinking he wasn't good enough but every time I think of him the first thing that comes into my head is his goal v QPR. I really like him as a person but I think I have to begrudingly admit he isn't good enough for us but I would love him to prove me wrong and he definitely has done enough to justify having another season with us.

 

[sbm]

I am really really surprised at the continued need for some people to slag good City players off - we just won the league and yet poster after poster wants to have a pop at certain players - Dzeko now, but it has also been the case with Barry, Kolarov, Richards, Hart, Lescott, Mario, Milner, De Jong, Nasri, Johnson, Yaya bloody Toure and David Silva even - I accept that it is a debating place but through my blue tinted specs I don't have feel a lot of City fans have become spoiled and snidey - and fuck the tin hat, I just happen to be a very happy Blue who gets a bit pissed off with unmerited negativity

Amen.

There has always been a minority of 'supporters' who got their kicks from slagging off the team or individual players. I can still recall being puzzled 60 years ago when my father took me to City games (with a big box to stand on): I couldn't understand why such people bothered to go to games. Later I realised in many cases it was just a way of letting off steam after a very hard week's work.

Unfortunately it has got worse. Some of the criticisms you allude to have been diabolical and are not "typical City fan" (of old, at least). I suspect that the problem has got much worse because of the internet, where the best way to attract attention in a fans forum is to outdo others in "smart arsiness" and to use as many swear words as possible.

 

[pudge]

I am really really surprised at the continued need for some people to slag good City players off - we just won the league and yet poster after poster wants to have a pop at certain players - Dzeko now, but it has also been the case with Barry, Kolarov, Richards, Hart, Lescott, Mario, Milner, De Jong, Nasri, Johnson, Yaya bloody Toure and David Silva even - I accept that it is a debating place but through my blue tinted specs I don't have feel a lot of City fans have become spoiled and snidey - and fuck the tin hat, I just happen to be a very happy Blue who gets a bit pissed off with unmerited negativity

Amen.

There has always been a minority of 'supporters' who got their kicks from slagging off the team or individual players. I can still recall being puzzled 60 years ago when my father took me to City games (with a big box to stand on): I couldn't understand why such people bothered to go to games. Later I realised in many cases it was just a way of letting off steam after a very hard week's work.

Unfortunately it has got worse. Some of the criticisms you allude to have been diabolical and are not "typical City fan" (of old, at least). I suspect that the problem has got much worse because of the internet, where the best way to attract attention in a fans forum is to outdo others in "smart arsiness" and to use as many swear words as possible.

What's wrong with fairly criticising a player?

I've only criticised Dzeko when he's played poorly and have only alluded to his awful first touch outside of a match this once. (yet have been labelled a 'hater')

Does that make me spoiled and snidey?

 

[Marvin]

I am really really surprised at the continued need for some people to slag good City players off - we just won the league and yet poster after poster wants to have a pop at certain players - Dzeko now, but it has also been the case with Barry, Kolarov, Richards, Hart, Lescott, Mario, Milner, De Jong, Nasri, Johnson, Yaya bloody Toure and David Silva even - I accept that it is a debating place but through my blue tinted specs I don't have feel a lot of City fans have become spoiled and snidey - and fuck the tin hat, I just happen to be a very happy Blue who gets a bit pissed off with unmerited negativity

Amen.

There has always been a minority of 'supporters' who got their kicks from slagging off the team or individual players. I can still recall being puzzled 60 years ago when my father took me to City games (with a big box to stand on): I couldn't understand why such people bothered to go to games. Later I realised in many cases it was just a way of letting off steam after a very hard week's work.

Unfortunately it has got worse. Some of the criticisms you allude to have been diabolical and are not "typical City fan" (of old, at least). I suspect that the problem has got much worse because of the internet, where the best way to attract attention in a fans forum is to outdo others in "smart arsiness" and to use as many swear words as possible.

What's wrong with fairly criticising a player?

I've only criticised Dzeko when he's played poorly and have only alluded to his awful first touch outside of a match this once. (yet have been labelled a 'hater')

Does that make me spoiled and snidey?

Yes it does because he's a top quality player who helped us win the title.

Did you see Gareth Taylor, David Cross, Derek Parlane and Robert Taylor? Then you might know what you are talking about

 

[pudge]

Amen.

There has always been a minority of 'supporters' who got their kicks from slagging off the team or individual players. I can still recall being puzzled 60 years ago when my father took me to City games (with a big box to stand on): I couldn't understand why such people bothered to go to games. Later I realised in many cases it was just a way of letting off steam after a very hard week's work.

Unfortunately it has got worse. Some of the criticisms you allude to have been diabolical and are not "typical City fan" (of old, at least). I suspect that the problem has got much worse because of the internet, where the best way to attract attention in a fans forum is to outdo others in "smart arsiness" and to use as many swear words as possible.

What's wrong with fairly criticising a player?

I've only criticised Dzeko when he's played poorly and have only alluded to his awful first touch outside of a match this once. (yet have been labelled a 'hater')

Does that make me spoiled and snidey?

Yes it does because he's a top quality player who helped us win the title.

Did you see Gareth Taylor, David Cross, Derek Parlane and Robert Taylor? Then you might know what you are talking about

So even when he plays poorly, which he has, I'm not allowed to mention it?

EDIT: I don't know why I expected a response from Marvin.

 

[sbm]

I am really really surprised at the continued need for some people to slag good City players off - we just won the league and yet poster after poster wants to have a pop at certain players - Dzeko now, but it has also been the case with Barry, Kolarov, Richards, Hart, Lescott, Mario, Milner, De Jong, Nasri, Johnson, Yaya bloody Toure and David Silva even - I accept that it is a debating place but through my blue tinted specs I don't have feel a lot of City fans have become spoiled and snidey - and fuck the tin hat, I just happen to be a very happy Blue who gets a bit pissed off with unmerited negativity

Amen.

There has always been a minority of 'supporters' who got their kicks from slagging off the team or individual players. I can still recall being puzzled 60 years ago when my father took me to City games (with a big box to stand on): I couldn't understand why such people bothered to go to games. Later I realised in many cases it was just a way of letting off steam after a very hard week's work.

Unfortunately it has got worse. Some of the criticisms you allude to have been diabolical and are not "typical City fan" (of old, at least). I suspect that the problem has got much worse because of the internet, where the best way to attract attention in a fans forum is to outdo others in "smart arsiness" and to use as many swear words as possible.

What's wrong with fairly criticising a player?

I've only criticised Dzeko when he's played poorly and have only alluded to his awful first touch outside of a match this once. (yet have been labelled a 'hater')

Does that make me spoiled and snidey?

There is nothing wrong with "fair criticism" (by definition). But that implies necessarily that criticisms can be "unfair" and that it is not the case that "anything goes".

For what it is worth, I did not have you in mind. In fact, the one thing that I can remember about your posts re Dzeko has been your pointing out that Aguero + Dzeko has been an effective partnership.

The sorts of things I have in mind, quoting from the last few pages, are: "fucking dismal"; "far more dog shit performances than good ones last year"; "his sheer ineptitude of being able to keep hold of the fcuking thing and retain possession"; "watching both for 5 minutes shows that one (Rooney) is leagues ahead of the other (Dzeko)"; "he couldn't even trap a bag of cement". These are not fair criticisms of a player who, leaving penalties aside, had the same minutes per goal or assist as van Persie last season and is way ahead of him taking their careers. These are ignorant criticisms of a player who is 8th in the Castrol Edge Ranking of every player in Europe's top five leagues. This ranking is based "purely on objective data on the positive or negative impact on his team's likely performance of every touch by a player” (my emphasis).

60 years ago, my father took me to City one week and United the next (It was quite common in those days). I became a City supporter partly because of Bert Trautmann. But another major reason was that there has always been something about City supporters that differentiated them from the arrogance / superiority of many United supporters. It bothers me that too many City supporters are starting to display that same sort of arrogance.

 

[The Future's Blue]

Dzeko has the first touch of a rapist, and plays as though he wearing clown shoes BUT the fact remains that he had a better goals per minutes played average last season than Wayne Rooney (if you take out penners, which Rooney takes for Utd but Dzeko doesnt for us).

And one is a hero, yet the other one is a failure.

That's because watching both for 5 minutes shows that one is leagues ahead of the other.

That is because you swallow the media hype and media caricatures.

In the last few games of the season, Rooney had more bad first touches per game than I can recall seeing any premier league player have. The TV commentators glossed over these bad touches (as they normally do when he makes a mistake). Interestingly Ferguson himself didn't. He said about these very same performances: "When we are poor, Wayne is the worst offender" (or words to that effect). But this was ignored by most, if not all, the football writers (who were convinced that Rooney was our only hope in Euro2012 and who in any case come to believe their own hype).

This is the way with threads on Edin Dzeko. A couple of posters come out with smart arse comments about his first touch and the SHEEP - emboldened - come out to play. If Dzeko was Brazilian or Spanish, these sheep would follow the same gang leaders in drooling over him.

Where are the facts about first touches? Well here are some facts:

* Edin has a better career record in terms of minutes per goal than Kun, Mario, Carlos, Rooney, van Persie and Torres.

* Edin has a better career record in terms of minutes per assist than Kun, Mario, Carlos, Rooney, van Persie and Torres. Incidentally he has a better minutes per assist than some 'playmakers' (e.g. Samir Nasri).

Why don't the anti-Dzeko brigade deal with these facts? If they don't think that FACTS about GOALS and about ASSISTS are that important when talking about STRIKERS, they should follow ballet dancing or equestrian dressage (rather than cricket, where, of course, correspondents and fans are not stupid enough to make assertions that fly in the face of facts ).

Good points, well made but I'd suggest this isn't just about Dzeko on the pitch (similar to Tevez), it's more about certain views on if he can track back, if you know what I mean.

 

[Roll On City]

Dzeko is not good enough for City. End off