Ed V Dave - 9pm on C4 & Sky News

[Damocles]

Balls, people have plenty of issues with their houses being in negative equity from the boom and bust of New Labour. And then the people who had their houses repossessed in 2008 when it all went tits up.

Ed Miliband was on TV last week almost straining to remember that period like it was a distant blot on the landscape, but I remember it well. There was him, Ed Balls, Harriet Harman...and they were telling us to vote for Gordon Brown. They said that he's the only one who can rescue the economy. The same bloke who decided not to regulate the banks, and doubled the UK's debt. Miliband and Balls were his key advisers at the time. The same mob that people are championing now. I'm no Tory supporter, but I'm not taking a bite out of labour's shit sandwich either. And anyone who was made redundant during their tenure can testify to that.

And if people aren't dancing to the tune of this media led rhetoric, how come every night on TV there is a program about people on benefits. Even during the day they have one called saints and sinners. Then we have the likes of Russell Brand, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband telling us it's all the bankers fault they are the ones you need to blame. You can go on any social media at the moment and people are taking about a fictional class war between the rich and poor. It's all bollix. The tories only got in because labour made a complete hash of it. If they get another term, it's because normal working people remember what happened and might just want a bit of stability in their lives.

I have had none of those issues and presume neither have had most of the forum.

To be honest for all of your rhetoric you're no different from the rest here just pointing at something and saying "THAT! THAT is the cause of all of our problems."

I agree that combative, blame centered politics rustled up by the media are very much something to be avoided and are ruining discourse in the country. I just don't see how blaming the Labour Party for everything then suggesting that all right minded folk should vote Tory is anything BUT combative blame centered politics.

 

[shallyman]

Balls, people have plenty of issues with their houses being in negative equity from the boom and bust of New Labour. And then the people who had their houses repossessed in 2008 when it all went tits up.

Ed Miliband was on TV last week almost straining to remember that period like it was a distant blot on the landscape, but I remember it well. There was him, Ed Balls, Harriet Harman...and they were telling us to vote for Gordon Brown. They said that he's the only one who can rescue the economy. The same bloke who decided not to regulate the banks, and doubled the UK's debt. Miliband and Balls were his key advisers at the time. The same mob that people are championing now. I'm no Tory supporter, but I'm not taking a bite out of labour's shit sandwich either. And anyone who was made redundant during their tenure can testify to that.

And if people aren't dancing to the tune of this media led rhetoric, how come every night on TV there is a program about people on benefits. Even during the day they have one called saints and sinners. Then we have the likes of Russell Brand, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband telling us it's all the bankers fault they are the ones you need to blame. You can go on any social media at the moment and people are taking about a fictional class war between the rich and poor. It's all bollix. The tories only got in because labour made a complete hash of it. If they get another term, it's because normal working people remember what happened and might just want a bit of stability in their lives.

I have had none of those issues and presume neither have had most of the forum.

To be honest for all of your rhetoric you're no different from the rest here just pointing at something and saying "THAT! THAT is the cause of all of our problems."

I agree that combative, blame centered politics rustled up by the media are very much something to be avoided and are ruining discourse in the country. I just don't see how blaming the Labour Party for everything then suggesting that all right minded folk should vote Tory is anything BUT combative blame centered politics.

In essence, what I am saying is don't fall for this class war nonsense, it's just deflecting the attention from the difficult questions on both sides.

I don't know your age/generation, but a lot of people I know got stung when buying their houses 2005 - 2008. The banks were giving people 100% mortgages with no deposit needed. Within the space of a year the houses weren't worth what they paid, the interest rates shot up. Negative equity/repossession. Lots of people in the building trade, financial and property sectors lost their jobs. Bad times. This is why the Tories got into power. Not because people supported them, because anything was better than the boom and bust of Gordon Brown. His election campaign was embarrassing, like a child standing with fingers in his ears shouting "la la la la."

 

[Blue Punter]

The issue of home ownership and its impact on the economy has cropped up a few times during this thread.

It's worth pointing out that (after Switzerland) Germany has the lowest percentage of home ownership in Europe. In terms of Western Europe, Spain, Greece & Ireland are amongst the highest when it comes to home ownership. Yet you could hardly describe their economies as booming.

I watched a programme last year where they did a family swap with two couples from North London & Nuremburg. The Germans couldn't understand why the English couple chose to enter into 30 years of debt to buy an overpriced shoebox in an densely populated conurbation. When you factor in external issues out of the individuals control, such as fluctuating interest rates and negative equity, they viewed it as a huge gamble, not worth the risk.

The English couple were amazed at the "typical" German rental property, both in terms of price and floorspace. I think there needs to be an increase in affordable housing, be it rental or ownership, fully endorsed by the state. I've seen it first hand with friends who have a young family in Zurich. They have a base in life to start off from, without being saddled with a huge debt at the outset.

 

[EalingBlue2]

so is Ealing still a safe labour seat - is it a labour v Tory battle? need to get the low down

 

[Bill]

everyone speaks as they find. under labour, not for the first time, i almost lost everything. the business, the house the lot. it was the same in the mid 70's trying to stay in work, not progress or buy a house , just to stay in work. one year i was made redundant 3 times in a matter of months. now fast forward to 2008/9. labour government,albeit on its last legs the harm has been done. only now i have a lot more to lose. i lay people off, i work seven days a week, i see bailiffs on a daily basis. my savings have gone, my cards are racked up and i am officially fucking peppered. the tax are about to shut me down untill a great great friend bailed me out. its not like i could sell the house or the shop even, they were worth fuck all if you could even find a buyer. the country was fucked. enter may 2010. everything changed. the day after the election, the very day after, my shop was busy. since then it has boomed. my mate has been paid back. i have took on more fitters, with apprentices. the cards are getting there and there are no bailiffs coming round.my house and shop are worth a few quid again and i can get to city games whenever i like. the shop is now mental, sometimes taking a day what i took in a month during the labour years. the turnaround since may 2010 has been astonishing. why is that? i as a bit of a thicky have no idea, i just see it as it is and i'm grateful for what has happend. i just speak, and vote, as i find. i still work seven days a week but its because i am simply too busy to fit everything in to anything less.

for those customers who did cross my door and support me through that period i am forever in your debt.

 

[Johnsonontheleft]

 

[Ancient Citizen]

''That's right Ed, go and tax the twats to death, I'll fuck off to the Bahamas with Sean Connery.''

 

[The perfect fumble]

Here we go..

From 2011

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8546501/Anger-as-chief-executive-pay-jumps-32pc.html

Anger as chief executive pay jumps 32pc

From 2009

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/sep/14/executive-pay-keeps-rising

Executive pay keeps rising, Guardian survey finds

http://news.sky.com/story/1170055/top-directors-pay-up-14-percent-in-past-year

Top Directors' Pay Up 14% In Past Year

The figures were even more stark in the top 25 companies, where chief executives saw their pay rise 86pc.

Then of course there are all the other forms of financial remuneration.

There you go. That's far better and quite surprising, though it does appear to be down to execs being given LTIP equity shares when the price was lower, and the market rises have given them a windfall.

Now I've read those, I'd be in full agreement that some executive total pay appears ludicrous when compared with share price performance though their basic doesn't appear to be growing faster than the markets.

Dont see how it concerns or affects any of us what the top execs are getting paid.
Surely the shareholders wouldve agreed to the pay increases anyway?

Executive pay is not automatically the preserve of shareholders, it is the board of directors that decides that, Non executive members of the board are, in theory, there to represent the wider interests of the company, including executive renumeration.

 

[shallyman]

There you go. That's far better and quite surprising, though it does appear to be down to execs being given LTIP equity shares when the price was lower, and the market rises have given them a windfall.

Now I've read those, I'd be in full agreement that some executive total pay appears ludicrous when compared with share price performance though their basic doesn't appear to be growing faster than the markets.

Dont see how it concerns or affects any of us what the top execs are getting paid.
Surely the shareholders wouldve agreed to the pay increases anyway?

Executive pay is not automatically the preserve of shareholders, it is the board of directors that decides that, Non executive members of the board are, in theory, there to represent the wider interests of the company, including executive renumeration.

Who gives a shit? Move on now

 

[DelToro]

Dont see how it concerns or affects any of us what the top execs are getting paid.
Surely the shareholders wouldve agreed to the pay increases anyway?

Executive pay is not automatically the preserve of shareholders, it is the board of directors that decides that, Non executive members of the board are, in theory, there to represent the wider interests of the company, including executive renumeration.

Who gives a shit? Move on now

I do.

Carry on perfect fumble - you're doing a good job.