Edin Dzeko (continued)

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foetus said:
JasminBosnia said:
Kris_Musampa said:
Am in block 106, and definitely heard booing when Garcia came on against Palace. Not good.
Your only piece of evidence that Dzeko was booed is a poster saying he heard Garcia being booed????


I said it before, on a different thread which appears to have been deleted for some reason?, there were 2 occasions when I hear people boo Edin (not barrack, but boo) in the Palace game in EL2, and I think this was corroborated by another poster who sits in the same area. It was not mass booing, probably 1 or 2 indiviuals in each case. I also apologise for not twatting them in the mouth but (a) I was not sure exactly which people did it and (b) such actions of violence have been generally codemned to the 1970's and 1980's, but then again so should booing, barracking and slagging CITY players.

Personally I like Edin, as a man and as a player, and what he has done for us, but I appreciate that other fans have different views, but FFS stop slagging him off now, get behind him, and almost certainly the extra support will make any player a better player, just as much as almost certainly negativity will make any player a worse player
 
aguero93:20 said:
Baka Sliskovic said:
aguero93:20 said:
clarify this for me please, negredo seems to spend more time as a no. 10 than aguero or dzeko imo.
We are on track to play c.60 games this season so game time wont be an issue for any of our strikers, it's not like dzeko isn't getting a fair amount of game time.

Dzeko was playing no.10 in last Blackburn game and Negredo no.9,. So it is not always true.
Dzeko and Negrede are dependable of the suppy of their midfield with quality passes. If midfield give them big amount of quality passes they will score more. And other way around. Dzeko and Negredo can not create ( or rarely can) chance by them selfs like Aguero, Suarez, Ibra and few others can. Dzeko can have great game ( running, assists, holding up ball well like Bayern away game ) but do not get good supply from midfield and would look average. Also he can be shit all the game. Get one quality pass he would score and be average again. For Dzeko to be great in all ( of his few PL starts ) he needed to be great personally and he needed to have good supply of quality assists. It WAS not the case in ALL of his few PL games. So it was really hard from him to be great. Knowing that he "must" score was making things even harder for him. And he got really minimal amount of PL game time to begin with.
Yes it would be enough games. Negredo allready have 450 min + PL games than Dzeko. At the end of the season he would have 1000 PL min + than Dzeko. Negredo will play all the derbies. All further CL games and Dzeko will play mainly cup games. You as a person with such big football knowledge. Should of course know that players good as Dzeko still is. Would not agree on that, neither would Negredo. The only solution was to give tham both similar amount of PL games from the start. To create three inform strikers instead of two inform strikers. Manager had all tools necessary to do it. He had chose to confront Negredo vs Dzeko. So they have to fight for one place. Which should not of happen.
 
BringBackSwales said:
foetus said:
Your only piece of evidence that Dzeko was booed is a poster saying he heard Garcia being booed????


I said it before, on a different thread which appears to have been deleted for some reason?, there were 2 occasions when I hear people boo Edin (not barrack, but boo) in the Palace game in EL2, and I think this was corroborated by another poster who sits in the same area. It was not mass booing, probably 1 or 2 indiviuals in each case. I also apologise for not twatting them in the mouth but (a) I was not sure exactly which people did it and (b) such actions of violence have been generally codemned to the 1970's and 1980's, but then again so should booing, barracking and slagging CITY players.

Personally I like Edin, as a man and as a player, and what he has done for us, but I appreciate that other fans have different views, but FFS stop slagging him off now, get behind him, and almost certainly the extra support will make any player a better player, just as much as almost certainly negativity will make any player a worse player
I'm not sure if that last paragraph was aimed at me but can I make it clear that I like Edin...he frustrates me but I like him and think he's a great striker.

There is no need for booing players. I was just trying to make the point that non-city fans on this forum should not slag off actual city fans on this forum because of what they read in the papers. Fair enough you have given actual evidence but as people have already posted, the actions of one or two supporters don't account for every city fan. Unfortunately some fan boys can't see reason.
 
Baka Sliskovic said:

Dzeko was playing no.10 in last Blackburn game and Negredo no.9,. So it is not always true.
Dzeko and Negrede are dependable of the suppy of their midfield with quality passes. If midfield give them big amount of quality passes they will score more. And other way around. Dzeko and Negredo can not create ( or rarely can) chance by them selfs like Aguero, Suarez, Ibra and few others can. Dzeko can have great game ( running, assists, holding up ball well like Bayern away game ) but do not get good supply from midfield and would look average. Also he can be shit all the game. Get one quality pass he would score and be average again. For Dzeko to be great in all ( of his few PL starts ) he needed to be great personally and he needed to have good supply of quality assists. It WAS not the case in ALL of his few PL games. So it was really hard from him to be great. Knowing that he "must" score was making things even harder for him. And he got really minimal amount of PL game time to begin with.
Yes it would be enough games. Negredo allready have 450 min + PL games than Dzeko. At the end of the season he would have 1000 PL min + than Dzeko. Negredo will play all the derbies. All further CL games and Dzeko will play mainly cup games. You as a person with such big football knowledge. Should of course know that players good as Dzeko still is. Would not agree on that, neither would Negredo. The only solution was to give tham both similar amount of PL games.
even though I've already proven that dzeko is playing a lot more in all the away fixtures you're still persisting with this?
You really don't seem to understand this Baka, but the one thing you do not do as a top level manager is put out anything less than your strongest available team for an important game. Our strongest team features Negredo, it doesn't feature Dzeko if both negredo and aguero are fit. So, yes, if both are fit they will start our 1 remaining derby and dzeko won't. There is nothing wrong with that. as for your first point, do you really think any striker will score goals without service from midfield? even Messi and Mueller couldn't score if their teammates fail (or failed in muellers case) to give them the ball in good positions, I fail to see how strikers not scoring without good service is in any way an argument for dzeko to feature, in fact as negredo is the more skilful and creative of the two. it's an argument for him not to feature.
 
I'm not sure if that last paragraph was aimed at me but can I make it clear that I like Edin...he frustrates me but I like him and think he's a great striker.

There is no need for booing players. I was just trying to make the point that non-city fans on this forum should not slag off actual city fans on this forum because of what they read in the papers. Fair enough you have given actual evidence but as people have already posted, the actions of one or two supporters don't account for every city fan. Unfortunately some fan boys can't see reason.

You're cool, providing arguments and all.

It's this Puppet character that hides behind City fans by using 'we, us' vs them, bad mouthing Dzeko and Bosnians in general (or whoever has a different opinion to his). What's behind it, I don't know, but the fact that on the BM Home Page in the forum section, there is always Dzeko among recent posts, and more likely than not, Puppet as a poster, must mean something. Man crush, stalking, maybe he is even Bosnian whose girlfriend or sister Dzeko dated but refused to marry, don't know. I am sure modern medicine has a name for it, and perhaps, cure. No disrespect, just trying to help.

So please stop using us, we,..., asking for facts or evidence without ever providing any. Sometimes problems are of emotional nature, not factual, so numbers here will not help.
 
aguero93:20 said:
even though I've already proven that dzeko is playing a lot more in all the away fixtures you're still persisting with this?
You really don't seem to understand this Baka, but the one thing you do not do as a top level manager is put out anything less than your strongest available team for an important game. Our strongest team features Negredo, it doesn't feature Dzeko if both negredo and aguero are fit. So, yes, if both are fit they will start our 1 remaining derby and dzeko won't. There is nothing wrong with that. as for your first point, do you really think any striker will score goals without service from midfield? even Messi and Mueller couldn't score if their teammates fail (or failed in muellers case) to give them the ball in good positions, I fail to see how strikers not scoring without good service is in any way an argument for dzeko to feature, in fact as negredo is the more skilful and creative of the two. it's an argument for him not to feature.

1 ) You did not proven anything. PL AWAY GAMES. Dzeko 5 starts , 411 min. 2 goals; Negredo 7 starts . 555 min, 1 goal. PL ALL GAMES Negredo had played 450+ PL min. All of this stats are accurate to a minute. This extra minutes were making easier for Negredo to score more goals and in a process looks better player who should not be dropped. ( why should he has scored 8 goals, which Dzeko would also with that extra 450 min and manager maximal support from the start ).
2) Mancini had chosed to have 3 or even tried to have 4 ( Balotelli ) near WC inform strikers. Pellegrini from the start knew he will have 2 starters and 2 sub strikers. He had chosed diferent tactic/approach. He was making all his moves ( teams selection ) to achieve this. He did gave minimal chance for Dzeko, Pantilimon or Milner and Navas to break into first team.
3) Pellegrini does not use Rotation. He have already established starting 11. Even 7 bench players if all are fit. I can tell you all 18 of them anytime. And he change few player when others are injured, suspended or can burn out because of playing too much. He should call it substitutions, not rotation. He does not use rotation. Mancini on other hand was really using rotation and many more players were involved to the end of the season as possible starters. There are two completely diferent approaches.
4) Strikers can hardly score without midfield, true. But Aguero, Ibrahimovic, Tevez can get the ball far from the goal. They can dribble past 1,2,3 players and create chance for their selfs and score. Dzeko ( and Negredo ) are too dependable on quality assist from midfield. They can not dribble past 2 players and score. If midfield would look for Dzeko in whole game and assist him quality passes he would be 20 goals + player in any team, league. Similar goes for Negredo. City have so many other options and Dzeko played so little PL games. He would never achieve anywhere near his potentials ( 20+ league goals ).
 
Baka Sliskovic said:
aguero93:20 said:
even though I've already proven that dzeko is playing a lot more in all the away fixtures you're still persisting with this?
You really don't seem to understand this Baka, but the one thing you do not do as a top level manager is put out anything less than your strongest available team for an important game. Our strongest team features Negredo, it doesn't feature Dzeko if both negredo and aguero are fit. So, yes, if both are fit they will start our 1 remaining derby and dzeko won't. There is nothing wrong with that. as for your first point, do you really think any striker will score goals without service from midfield? even Messi and Mueller couldn't score if their teammates fail (or failed in muellers case) to give them the ball in good positions, I fail to see how strikers not scoring without good service is in any way an argument for dzeko to feature, in fact as negredo is the more skilful and creative of the two. it's an argument for him not to feature.

1 ) You did not proven anything. PL AWAY GAMES. Dzeko 5 starts , 411 min. 2 goals; Negredo 7 starts . 555 min, 1 goal. PL ALL GAMES Negredo had played 450+ PL min. All of this stats are accurate to a minute. This extra minutes were making easier for Negredo to score more goals and in a process looks better player who should not be dropped. ( why should he has scored 8 goals, which Dzeko would also with that extra 450 min and manager maximal support from the start ).
2) Mancini had chosed to have 3 or even tried to have 4 ( Balotelli ) near WC inform strikers. Pellegrini from the start knew he will have 2 starters and 2 sub strikers. He had chosed diferent tactic/approach. He was making all his moves ( teams selection ) to achieve this. He did gave minimal chance for Dzeko, Pantilimon or Milner and Navas to break into first team.
3) Pellegrini does not use Rotation. He have already established starting 11. Even 7 bench players if all are fit. I can tell you all 18 of them anytime. And he change few player when others are injured, suspended or can burn out because of playing too much. He should call it substitutions, not rotation. He does not use rotation. Mancini on other hand was really using rotation and many more players were involved to the end of the season as possible starters. There are two completely diferent approaches.
4) Strikers can hardly score without midfield, true. But Aguero, Ibrahimovic, Tevez can get the ball far from the goal. They can dribble past 1,2,3 players and create chance for their selfs and score. Dzeko ( and Negredo ) are too dependable on quality assist from midfield. They can not dribble past 2 players and score. If midfield would look for Dzeko in whole game and assist him quality passes he would be 20 goals + player in any team, league. Similar goes for Negredo. City have so many other options and Dzeko played so little PL games. He would never achieve anywhere near his potentials ( 20+ league goals ).
1. where are you getting this from?
2. If you don't think Pellegrini rotates you're certifiable, knowing your best 11 and rotation aren't mutually exclusive
3. Aguero Tevez and Ibra (Ibrahimovic? Dribble with the fucking ball???!!!) run past 3 players and score about as often as Dzeko scores from 35-40 yards. Tevez did it once or twice in his entire time at city, aguero doesn't take players on often enough and ibra will pass and move every time before dribbling.
 
Baka Sliskovic said:
Matty said:
Everyone is eltitled to their own opinion. That doesn't mean that everyone's opinion is correct, or that it should be respected.

When someone uses phrases like "Negredo will never be fast player with great workrate" when Negredo is both fast AND has great workrate, or when they say things like "Put him in Tottenham team. He would not be much better than Soldado was/is" when Spurs were clearly crying out for a Negredo style player when AVB was playing Soldado up top on his own (and asking him to do all the things that come naturally to Negredo) then I have to conclude that everything thay say about this matter is wrong, and that they don't really understand what they're talking about.

There are some "things" which I just can not agree with.

Baka Sliskovic said:
1) In first 5 games Negredos workrate was briliant. He even closed/was chasing 4 out of 5 defenders. His workrate in last 5 games was much worse. He did not run as much, he was preserving his energy. He was chasing/closing down 1 out of 5 defenders. If anyone try to forget on his briliant workrate of first games, and actually try to concentrate in his last games would see the diference. ( he does not run that much ).

If, and I'm not convinced it has, Negredo's workrate has dropped off in his last 5 games, might I suggest it's due to us playing 10 game sin the last month, as opposed to 10 games being 2.5 months worth of football as is the norm. Potentially the drop in workrate isn't due to Negredo not beign a player who puts in the effort, but is more due to the short recovery time between games?

Baka Sliskovic said:
2) Negredo is not fast player. He is heavy striker. He will never be fast as for example are: Aguero, Suarez, Sturridge, anywhere near that. He is more similar to Dzeko. They have occasional speed bursts. I have seen a lot of chances this year where Narsi, Navas, Silva was up front and waiting Dzeko AND/OR Negredo to come to the box. Especialy when they have to run from defending a corner to opposite side box. Aguero was up there with SIlva, Nasri and Navas waiting for Dzeko,Negredo.

Just because Negredo isn't as fast as Aguero doesn't mean he's not fast himself. You are wrong when you say he isn't quick, in fact I've been surprised at quite how quick Negredo actually is. I don't really understand the term "heavy striker".

Baka Sliskovic said:
3) As for Tottenham it is true. Soldado with Silva and Navas support would probably score more goals. Negredo without SIlva and Navas would score far less in this team.

Yes, that's true. However it's also not even remotely what you previously said. You said if we put Negredo in the Spurs team he'd perform as badly as Soldado was/is doing. That's simply not true. AVB played a lone striker system and asked the striker to lead the line, hold up the ball, link play, etc. Negredo does ALL of these things better than Soldado does and as such your assertion is demonstratively wrong.

Baka Sliskovic said:
4) You have also said something like Dzeko had 10 starts, Negredo 9 Away. It is not true.
PL AWAY GAMES ( Dzeko 5 starts , 411 min. 2 goals; Negredo 7 starts . 555 min, 1 goal ). HOME + AWAY PL GAMES Negredo had played 450 PL min +. And will play much more in second part of the season. Dzeko with that extra 450 min would score somethinig similar to that Negredos extra 4 PL goals. And would contributed in other ways of course. I agree football is not just about scoring, even beeing a striker. Two ( Newcastle, Blackburn ) out of three Negredos away goals were assisted by Dzeko. So Dzeko does not ONLY score goals, does he.

No, it IS TRUE. The reason it IS TRUE is simple, I looked it up. Your insistance on just considering league games is the issue here. I said Dzeko had started 10 away games, Negredo had started 9 away games, that is a fact. At no point did I say I was limiting my stats to league games, why would I? Do cup games not count? Your assertion that Dzeko would score 4 more goals if he'd been given the extra pitch time is pure speculation

Baka Sliskovic said:
5) I just think you dont see Dzeko as great player just a solid one. Which is a normal thing. Every person have theirs preferenced players. Some like tall strikers, some smaller but quicker. But on other hand. You seems to glorify everything manager does ( ok not everything but 95% ) and think Negredo is better player than he really is. Why was Bayern for instance going for Dzeko and not Negredo ? Why Barcelona, Real M. or Atletico M. were not going for Negredo. Believe me if he would be striker without almost any flaws like Suarez, Aguero, Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Falcao, Lewandowski and others are. They would bought him long time ago. Like they are going after all this mentioned players. So I ask you. What do you think what are flaws in Negredos games that he was not bought by this clubs. Or why he did not succeed at Real M. Almost every player have his flaws. But on this forum it seems like Negredo is without one.

You're right, I do think Dzeko is ok, but not great, and I'm not alone in that assessment. My opinions on Pellegrini aren't really relevant here, but I'd challenge you to find too many posts where I've been enthusing about him. I like his style of play (more so than I did Mancini's) and think he's making more good decisions than bad, but he's still made errors in his time at City. Negredo is a better player than I thought he was going to be, and with 15 goals by early January in his debut season I don't think I'm overrating him at all. No-one is saying Negredo is on a par with Cavani, Ibrahimovic or Falcao, but neither is Dzeko. Negredo cost us just shy of £20m, Cavani went to PSG for over twice that. Value for money wise I think we got the better deal. As for why othe clubs didn't want him, well Barca went for Neymar, and Real spent £100m on Bale, they had their targets. Atletico Madrid probably didn't have the money, they are more a selling club than buying, and could get Villa for far cheaper. Bayern probably wanted Dzeko as he has Bundesliga experience, and they hope they can make him the striker he was 3 years ago, not the striker he is now. Asking why Negredo didn't suceed at Real Madrid is harsh in the extreme, he was much younger, he developed later in life as a top striker, and he was competing against the best players money can buy. Real aren't Barca, they don't really bring too many youth products through, they spend £80m on Ronaldo, or £100m on Bale instead. Of course Negredo has flaws, they just aren't as many, or as detrimental to his contribution to City as Dzeko's are. Negredo's right foot isn't brilliant for example. However, when measured up against Dzeko then Negredo has far more going for him.

Baka Sliskovic said:
As for Dzeko beeing booed or not, I could not care less. People are running off real issues just to write about not important booing. He is professional footballer and he should deal with it. I think he is much much more hurt because of his status in this team. Of course IF he was booed he can tell fans to shut up. But his main frustration is for not playing enough. He would not lose any sleep for being booed. Maybe he will react more angry to it. So he can throw his main frustration ( not playing ) out of himself.

I agree, the booing (or, more accurately, the lack thereof) is not really relevant here. I'm sure Dzeko is frustrated, and annoyed, about his limited gametime, but ultimately there's only one person who can do anything abotu that, and it's Edin himself. He has it within him to demonstrate to Pellegrini that he deserves more gametime, and as a City fan I'd be delighted if he stepped up, played great football and forced Pellegrini to start him more often, a striker playing very well for City can only be beneficial for us and our chances of winning. The fact it's now January and he finds himself as the 3rd striker and not getting the time on the pitch he craves is down to his poor displays and nothing else. Pellegrini is a football manager, why would he decide to simply leave a player out with no reason? He selects the team he feels gives us the best chance to win and, more often than not, that team doesn't include Dzeko. You'll find the vast majority of City fans are in agreement.
 
IN ALL COMPETITIONS BAKA: (since we play in 4 competitions every year, don't you know.)
Negredo 17 appearances, 15 goals from 62 shots, 5 assists.
Dzeko 16 appearances, 10 goals from 70 shots, 3 assists.
As you can see here MP is clearly raping Dzeko for game time and opportunities on the field as he's earned a starting place ahead of Dzeko.

<a class="postlink" href="http://espnfc.com/team/squad/_/id/382/league/all/manchester-city?cc=5739" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://espnfc.com/team/squad/_/id/382/l ... ty?cc=5739</a>
 
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